which is most difficult to believe of all Catholic doctrine?

Blue Donkey said:

I do believe people can lose salvation though. If that happens, a person must repent.

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Then you agree with me. An unrepentant person won't be going to Heaven.

Elvira said:

My Bible tells me that traditions and rituals the Bible does not command us to follow is wrong...

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And those denominations are...?

People believe in all kinds of things. Who are we to judge? It affects us how? Often religious/spiritual traditions aren't to be taken literally. Might help to read some of Joseph Campbell. I especially like "The Masks of God".

Parrish said:

And those denominations are...?

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You tell me...what denominations have rituals and traditions that are not in the Bible?

Elvira said:

You tell me.. What denominations have rituals and traditions that are not in the Bible?

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Obviuoskly all Catholic denominations. Praying to and worshipping Mary are unbiblical traditions. So is confessing sins to a priest on the phone in a little box.

Elvira said:

My Bible tells me that traditions and rituals the Bible does not command us to follow is wrong...

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Look above:

You stated, that your Bible tells you, that all ALL CATHOLICS are bad people and that they are false and lie and worship idols.
That shows your fanatical hatred for ALL CATHOLICS!
That's what it shows.
See above

Originally Posted by Rumpel:

Some hard core Protestants cling to their dear old clichés, that all Catholics are bad people and that they are false and lie and worship idols etc etc.
Mom has told them so when they were children - and they now believe it forever.

Elvira said:

My Bible tells me so...

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So now we know ....

I didn't vote because I couldn't decide which one I most disagree with. The only one that isn't against biblical teaching is " Jesus ascended into Heaven "bodily". The others can all be disproved by simply reading the Bible.

narrowroad said:

please read what the Church officially teaches on infallibility. It is NOT what you seem to think. It is NOT "human infallibility" but a human being proclaiming infallible truth.

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I am aware of that (says so on Wikipedia!) and it doesn't change anything for me.
People have no way of knowing when a pope is proclaiming absolute truth (an absurdity in itself, considering the imperfection of language) and when he is being a fallible Human.
To preclude that possibility is to declare him humanly infallible. To not preclude it makes him an fallible human, who may just as well utter an absolute truth or untruth, just without the pointy hat.

With one small exception, which has to do with logical paradoxes.
Assuming the possibility of an omnipotent creator, he alone would be perfect. You would have to go beyond the bounds of logic to accept another being having perfection and free will at the same time.
If you do go beyond what is logically possible, then it follows that an omnipotent being can do what it wants, logical rules or not, and the imperfect being perfect then becomes a possibility. Faith has something to do with that, so I will extend that olive branch.

However, having experienced human beings my whole life, I remain sceptical at any notion of perfection/infallibility until the big guy himself deigns to inform me otherwise. Which I guess, assuming he is a loving god, he would probably want me to be.

narrowroad said:

It is NOT "human infallibility" but a human being proclaiming infallible truth.

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Or TL;DR version: If the instrument has flaws, the music cannot be trusted not to have flaws.
(If you're feeling particuarly poetic, you may muse about the possibility of the odd imperfect note actually improving the score, fully in accordance with the opinion of the original composer.)

Rumpel said:

Look above:

You stated, that your Bible tells you, that all ALL CATHOLICS are bad people and that they are false and lie and worship idols.
That shows your fanatical hatred for ALL CATHOLICS!
That's what it shows.
See above

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Since when does disagreeing with someone equal hate? Let alone "fanatical" hate.

Rumpel said:

Look above:

You stated, that your Bible tells you, that all ALL CATHOLICS are bad people and that they are false and lie and worship idols.
That shows your fanatical hatred for ALL CATHOLICS!
That's what it shows.
See above

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Wrong...there are still good, sincere people out there, some in other denominations, desiring to know the truth or our preaching work would've been stopped by God now...they are not bad people, but the things they mistakenly believe about God are bad...the trinity and hellfire, for example...

"And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." Matthew 24:14

Magdalene said:

Since when does disagreeing with someone equal hate? Let alone "fanatical" hate.

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For Elvira: You stated, that your Bible tells you, that all ALL CATHOLICS are bad people and that they are false and lie
That is more than just "dis-agreeing".

For you: Think what you like - but think!

Rumpel said:

For Elvira: You stated, that your Bible tells you, that all ALL CATHOLICS are bad people and that they are false and lie
That is more than just "dis-agreeing".

For you: Think what you like - but think!

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I'm thinking just fine, thank you. I know the difference between disagreeing and hate.

Blue Donkey said:

I do believe people can lose salvation though. If that happens, a person must repent.

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If you lose salvation, how do you get it back? Through repentance? If so, Christ died for nothing.

Magdalene said:

I know the difference between disagreeing and hate.

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No, obviously not.
Case closed.
Over and out.

Kreton said:

Choosing not a believe in something is one thing. Attacking the beliefs of millions of people around the world for no reason other than apparent hatred of people of faith makes you nothing more than a bigot.

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Like I always say. Those of us who believe, if wrong have lost nothing except a few drunken parties. If those that don't believe are wrong, they burn baby burn.
You cannot convince those that dont believe if their mind is closed to faith. Yet every year more people come to Christ the Savior.

Rumpel said:

For Elvira: You stated, that your Bible tells you, that all ALL CATHOLICS are bad people and that they are false and lie
That is more than just "dis-agreeing".

For you: Think what you like - but think!

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And that is a lie...I did not say that...I said the traditions and rituals are bad...:roll:

All of it, but I'm gonna go with the one even most Catholics don't believe...

That there are no ghosts, only demons masquerading as such to gain confidence.

Elvira said:

Wrong. There are still good, sincere people out there, some in other denominations, desiring to know the truth or our preaching work would've been stopped by God now. They are not bad people, but the things they mistakenly believe about God are bad, the trinity and hellfire, for example . . .

"And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." Matthew 24:14

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The Ttrinity is the best thing to believe. Without believing in that you deny the whole Gospel: that God Himself willingly surrendered his body to men who hated him, knowing He was going to be murdered in a cruel way, just because he was already King of the Jews. It would be denying God's ability to perform miracles such as a virgin birth and rising from the dead. There is no better paradox to have faith in.

Magdalene said:

If you lose salvation, how do you get it back? Through repentance? If so, Christ died for nothing.

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The same way you became a Christian in the first place. But I would want to add repentence for walking away from Jesus just to be sure (have to look it up).

Blue Donkey said:

The same way you became a Christian in the first place. But I would want to add repentence for walking away from Jesus just to be sure (have to look it up).

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Okay. I disagree with you, but was just curious what your thought process was. I know there are many who have similar belief.

Blue Donkey said:

The Ttrinity is the best thing to believe. Without believing in that you deny the whole Gospel: that God Himself willingly surrendered his body to men who hated him, knowing He was going to be murdered in a cruel way, just because he was already King of the Jews. It would be denying God's ability to perform miracles such as a virgin birth and rising from the dead. There is no better paradox to have faith in.

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Why Is the Trinity Taught? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

The Watchtower is a magazine made up by Jehovah's witnesses, not the Bible. Only the Bible is the Scripture inspired by God.

Rumpel said:

Well, hell fire sermons are typical of Protestant preachers - not of the Catholic Church.

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LOL, goes to show what you know.

Hellfire sermons are typical of Protestant preachers.

This is a typical sermon of the Great Awakening, emphasizing the teaching that Hell is real—a place that actually exists. Edwards hoped that the imagery and language of his sermon would awaken audiences to the horrific reality of hell that awaits them should they continue living without calling on Christ to be saved.

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Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God - Wikipedia