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Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

I personally feel transgender individuals are...


  • Total voters
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I think there is yet much to learn on the topics and it is evident that gender identity (and in all likelihood BIID, also) is indeed at least SOMETIMES a delusion that is the result of a diseased brain.

I also agree that more research is needed. However, if the delusion exists, then the diagnosis is NOT GID.
 
Is there a way to test the brain chemistry other than through autopsy. If so--THAT should be a criteria for SRT.

Not that I am aware.

I read something that suggested BIID was very like Phantom Limb, but only in reverse. That would be the same sort of brain chemistry issue that you are citing as why GID should be surgically treated.

I have heard of this. I believe that this is what transabled is talking about in regards to skin conductivity.
 
It may be that it is a delusion, a symptom of another disorder. But there are already measures that take that into account (DSM-V should have definitely improved in this area). The extensive counseling and the doctors' consent, and all of what everybody who knew a transsexual has said in this thread. The process is a tiresome one, and an exhaustive one.

I think your use of language here is a little deceiving. It is not the job of psychiatry to determine an objective reality, and then "fix" those who do not not conform to it; rather, those who perceive reality in such a way that it is hindering their functionality in society may seek treatment. On a more complex level, you could also say that society has such a level of conformity that it is the rest of us who fail this minority, as opposed to accusing the minority of being delusional. That is to say, just like many societies have integrated many cultural, gender, and sexual identities into one place peacefully, perhaps it could also be useful to integrate the disabled and those who perceived reality differently as well. Disorders are generally diagnosed when a person cannot function in their community; perhaps the community is equally responsible for this lack of functionality?

These measures should give us a good picture of what reality is and what identity is for the transsexual, even though it may not always be correct 100% of the time.

How do you create a picture of what reality is? What is reality?

But the fact that there's been such a high degree of success with SRT points towards the idea that identity is not dictated by the body. When you put all of this together, it suggests that the high majority of the cases dealing with GID are cases concerning Identity, not delusions.

This is what I was pointing to earlier. Identity is not necessarily determined by the body, however if the body does not conform with the needs of the mind then there may be a serious psychological disharmony.
 
Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

I don't have a clue, not to sound mean or anything I really really don't care.
I see far to many more important problems facing my country.
 
Then why post at all?
 
I think your use of language here is a little deceiving. It is not the job of psychiatry to determine an objective reality, and then "fix" those who do not not conform to it;

This isn't what I said at all. Counseling is a dialogue, meaning the involvement of 2 people (at least). The counselor isn't the one determining reality, it's the client. Also, there's a difference between a psychiatrist, and a clinician. Counseling is often done by the clinician. Read back on my posts to get a better understanding of what I said about counseling and exhaustive testing.

rather, those who perceive reality in such a way that it is hindering their functionality in society may seek treatment. On a more complex level, you could also say that society has such a level of conformity that it is the rest of us who fail this minority, as opposed to accusing the minority of being delusional. That is to say, just like many societies have integrated many cultural, gender, and sexual identities into one place peacefully, perhaps it could also be useful to integrate the disabled and those who perceived reality differently as well.

Counseling in my mind isn't a determination of reality. Counseling is what clinicians use to help their clients. It's a reflective process, and based upon those reflections, the clinician can determine whether or not they have a disorder depending upon if their reflections matches the symptoms of the disorder.

Counseling isn't a way of determining reality, it's more like reflecting upon reality. Therefore, the "objective reality" depends upon the client.

Disorders are generally diagnosed when a person cannot function in their community; perhaps the community is equally responsible for this lack of functionality?

Well, technically, people get diagnosed even when they don't have any lack of functions. For instance, Restless Legs Syndrome. That's a bull**** disorder. As is the medication for the disorder.

With the same type of logic that you're using, I can say that it's the communities fault for believing in this "lack of functionality" as the cause of the disorder.

So I do agree with you, that the community does play a role in deciding the functionality of a disorder.

How do you create a picture of what reality is? What is reality?

I think I answered this already in the above section. It isn't that the psychologist is determining reality for the client, the psychologist is helping the client reflect, and therefore helping them create a better understanding of who they are. That reality is dependent upon the individual.

This is what I was pointing to earlier. Identity is not necessarily determined by the body, however if the body does not conform with the needs of the mind then there may be a serious psychological disharmony.

:2wave:

That's what I've been trying to say in the last 50 pages. That the problem lies with the body, not the mind.
 
Then why post at all?

You telling me you have the right to express your opinion but I don't?
Who the **** made you god.
 
BBC NEWS | Health | Transsexual gene link identified

Australian researchers have identified a significant link between a gene involved in testosterone action and male-to-female transsexualism.

DNA analysis from 112 male-to-female transsexual volunteers showed they were more likely to have a longer version of the androgen receptor gene.

The genetic difference may cause weaker testosterone signals, the team reported in Biological Psychiatry.

However, other genes are also likely to play a part, they stressed.

Increasingly, biological factors are being implicated in gender identity.
 
This isn't what I said at all. Counseling is a dialogue, meaning the involvement of 2 people (at least). The counselor isn't the one determining reality, it's the client. Also, there's a difference between a psychiatrist, and a clinician. Counseling is often done by the clinician. Read back on my posts to get a better understanding of what I said about counseling and exhaustive testing.

Counseling in my mind isn't a determination of reality. Counseling is what clinicians use to help their clients. It's a reflective process, and based upon those reflections, the clinician can determine whether or not they have a disorder depending upon if their reflections matches the symptoms of the disorder.

Counseling isn't a way of determining reality, it's more like reflecting upon reality. Therefore, the "objective reality" depends upon the client.

Thank you for the clarification. I agree.

Well, technically, people get diagnosed even when they don't have any lack of functions. For instance, Restless Legs Syndrome. That's a bull**** disorder. As is the medication for the disorder.

I think your comparison is way off the mark. Although this is conjecture, I do believe there is an aspect of the medical community that is in bed with the pharmaceutical companies, and so we see a series of new "diseases" being created each year in order to sell newer and more expensive medications. So yes, they can be diagnosed for a non-existent problem.

That said... if you are trying to draw a parallel between false diagnosis of RLS and transexualism, they are like day and night. The latter has way more precedent and a longer tradition of medical study than even homosexuality.

I think I answered this already in the above section. It isn't that the psychologist is determining reality for the client, the psychologist is helping the client reflect, and therefore helping them create a better understanding of who they are. That reality is dependent upon the individual.

I misinterpreted your original wording. It turns out we agree.:mrgreen:
 

I don't think this erases the core inequity that exists within society. We will begin to see language such as "normal gene" versus "abnormal gene", implying that one requires correction and the other does not. A similar phenomenon is happening in research into homosexuality. My personal hope is that social inequities are corrected before gene therapy becomes advanced enough to "correct" discovered sexuality genes, otherwise there may be grave consequences.

These unique individuals in our society should not have to conform to a social status quo, since they were born naturally the way they are.
 
so we see a series of new "diseases" being created each year in order to sell newer and more expensive medications.

I don't necessarily disagree with this statement. It has been used in conjunction with BIID, saying that it's a new condition that had been created by some medical people, and that if it gets officialy codified in the DSM, we'd see a resurgence of people self-identifying with it, even if they don't have it, as if it was "chic" to have BIID.

I'm convinced that if it gets in the "shrink's bible" we will see more people with BIID, but only because of growing awareness that these feelings are an actual honest-to-goodness condition. People have these feelings and feel extremely isolated, thinking they are the only ones. I hear it several times per month, people emailing me saying "thank you for your site, I thought I was the only one feeling this way".

And BIID isn't new. Perhaps the name is new, and awareness of the condition is new, but it certainly isn't. There's mention of a case that appears to be BIID in a medical memoir from France dating from the late 1700's. Just food for thoughts.

Besides, in the case of BIID, I doubt doctors would be in league with pharmaceutical companies to sell more drugs, considering that courses of medication aren't actually helping transabled individuals...
 
I don't necessarily disagree with this statement. It has been used in conjunction with BIID, saying that it's a new condition that had been created by some medical people, and that if it gets officialy codified in the DSM, we'd see a resurgence of people self-identifying with it, even if they don't have it, as if it was "chic" to have BIID.

I'm convinced that if it gets in the "shrink's bible" we will see more people with BIID, but only because of growing awareness that these feelings are an actual honest-to-goodness condition. People have these feelings and feel extremely isolated, thinking they are the only ones. I hear it several times per month, people emailing me saying "thank you for your site, I thought I was the only one feeling this way".

And BIID isn't new. Perhaps the name is new, and awareness of the condition is new, but it certainly isn't. There's mention of a case that appears to be BIID in a medical memoir from France dating from the late 1700's. Just food for thoughts.

Besides, in the case of BIID, I doubt doctors would be in league with pharmaceutical companies to sell more drugs, considering that courses of medication aren't actually helping transabled individuals...

You know, I have watched this thread for a while and have commented in it but I find it so hard to accept. I am a gay man. I have issues of feminine versus masculine roles to deal with daily and consistently. I just find it hard to believe that gender disorders have anything more to do with the ability to accept one's sexual role than biology. I think that its better to accept one's lot in life biologically and to accept one's role in sexual interaction than to indulge this idea that you aren't the right sex. Sex or gender is determined by biology. It's not determined by one's fantasy that your sex is what you want to make it. That's just weird to me.

Yeah, I am a homo and I love dick. I mean, I reaaaaaallly reaaaaallly love it. But I also love my dick and what I can do with it. Perhaps some kind of counseling that makes you understand your dick and how it plays into your existence would be better than cutting it off and making a clit out of it.

I dunno. I am not judging. I am just commenting based on my own experience.
 
I think that its better to accept one's lot in life biologically and to accept one's role in sexual interaction than to indulge this idea that you aren't the right sex. Sex or gender is determined by biology. It's not determined by one's fantasy that your sex is what you want to make it.

But... It's not indulgence. It's not fantasy. Yeah, it is biology, but not biology you can necessarily see with the naked eye...
 
But... It's not indulgence. It's not fantasy. Yeah, it is biology, but not biology you can necessarily see with the naked eye...

I find that all so...difficult. I just dont get it. I'm sorry, but I don't. I try. I really do, but I just don't.
 
You know, I have watched this thread for a while and have commented in it but I find it so hard to accept. I am a gay man. I have issues of feminine versus masculine roles to deal with daily and consistently. I just find it hard to believe that gender disorders have anything more to do with the ability to accept one's sexual role than biology. I think that its better to accept one's lot in life biologically and to accept one's role in sexual interaction than to indulge this idea that you aren't the right sex. Sex or gender is determined by biology. It's not determined by one's fantasy that your sex is what you want to make it. That's just weird to me.

Yeah, I am a homo and I love dick. I mean, I reaaaaaallly reaaaaallly love it. But I also love my dick and what I can do with it. Perhaps some kind of counseling that makes you understand your dick and how it plays into your existence would be better than cutting it off and making a clit out of it.

I dunno. I am not judging. I am just commenting based on my own experience.

I'm you're regular five-and-a-half foot Asian American. I speak Cantonese. I'm gifted in math. I graduated with honors in high school. You know...the typical Asian.

Yet, I feel like I shoulda been born a Mexican American. And I'm being dead serious, no joke. I love Latina women. Not only the women but I love their lifestyle, their food, the type of family structure. I think I would be a lot happier if I was Mexican. I mean I don't hate my life or anything, but I have a great attraction to that sort of lifestyle.

...Posole sounds pretty good right about now - lol
 
I find that all so...difficult. I just dont get it. I'm sorry, but I don't. I try. I really do, but I just don't.

Maybe it's not a question of getting it, but accepting the research of people who have specialised in that field? You don't have to understand it to accept. Me, I just don't understand the attraction to the male anatomy. I'm glad most women are attracted to my dangly bits, but I can't understand how a man could find another man attractive. But I accept it. Live and let live.
 
I'm you're regular five-and-a-half foot Asian American. I speak Cantonese. I'm gifted in math. I graduated with honors in high school. You know...the typical Asian.

Yet, I feel like I shoulda been born a Mexican American. And I'm being dead serious, no joke. I love Latina women. Not only the women but I love their lifestyle, their food, the type of family structure. I think I would be a lot happier if I was Mexican. I mean I don't hate my life or anything, but I have a great attraction to that sort of lifestyle.

...Posole sounds pretty good right about now - lol

That's a lifestyle...not a change in who you are. I find latin men...immaculate. I mean, I love the way they move, the darkness, the heat, the way they don't care whether you accept them or not, the sexual attraction...

But that in no way diminishes my sexual identity. It doesn't detract from the fact that I am a man and I like it. Just for the excitement and love of it.

The idea that my penis isn't an integral part of who I am is just...bizarre. It's so...weird to me.

And again, I don't judge. I just think it's disturbed that one might try to diminish his biology in an effort to achieve a costume. And that's all it is...a costume. Biology is what it is.
 
I'm an Obese man trapped in a slim man's body. I eat nothing but fudge and beef jerky 24 hours a day and I still cannot expand my girth to anythintg respectable.

I cry at night while watching the Biggest Loser because these people have no idea what they are giving up and how much I would love to be them.

I love Pie and Cake and Processed foods. I eat chicken sandwiches from vending machines by the half dozen and nothing.

I'm thinking about having a fat transplant. Do they do that yet?
 
I'm an Obese man trapped in a slim man's body. I eat nothing but fudge and beef jerky 24 hours a day and I still cannot expand my girth to anythintg respectable.

I cry at night while watching the Biggest Loser because these people have no idea what they are giving up and how much I would love to be them.

I love Pie and Cake and Processed foods. I eat chicken sandwiches from vending machines by the half dozen and nothing.

I'm thinking about having a fat transplant. Do they do that yet?

When I started playing WoW I gained nearly 20 pounds. Maybe you can do that?
 
I tried that after the South Park episode, but nothing. I think the fat transplant is my only solution.

My professional opinion would be for you to take at least 30 hours of counseling from the Captain. Run some diagnostics, and then decide whether you want reverse-lipo. The Supersize diet plan seems to work for most people, but you may be an exception.
 
My professional opinion would be for you to take at least 30 hours of counseling from the Captain. Run some diagnostics, and then decide whether you want reverse-lipo. The Supersize diet plan seems to work for most people, but you may be an exception.

I've struggled to get up to nearly 200lbs* while consuming double fudge Ice cream by the 1/2 gallon for 8 months.

:(






Unfortunately, It's mostly muscle mass. I want to be flabby, Damnit!
 
I've struggled to get up to nearly 200lbs* while consuming double fudge Ice cream by the 1/2 gallon for 8 months.

:(






Unfortunately, It's mostly muscle mass. I want to be flabby, Damnit!

It sounds like you have an overactive thyroid.
 
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