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Who do you agree with on Ukraine: Obama or Trump?

Who do you agree with on Ukraine: Obama or Trump?

  • Obama: No military aid/troops to Ukaine - Russia take all of Ukraine

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Trump: Military aid/troops to Ukraine - Russia not to get 1 more inch of Ukraine

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • Total voters
    4
J

joko104

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Who do you agree with on policy and actions about Ukraine:

Obama: No military aid to Ukraine. No American troops in Ukraine. Russia seizes all of Ukraine's Crimea and invades Eastern Ukraine covertly taking more Ukraine territory. Possibly this was part of Obama's post-election "flexibility" with Russia.

Trump: Military aid to Ukraine. Weapons to Ukraine. American troops in Ukraine (by "Ukraine" I mean what is left of it after Obama/Putin). Russia has not gained 1 inch more since Trump became president.

Ukraine is critical to Russia returning to being a great empire. Without Ukraine, Russia is just another Eurasian country - huge but poor and weak. In my opinion, Obama was the greatest asset and operative Russia ever had, doing all possible to help Putin rebuild the Russian empire successfully - stopped by President Trump.

We know are listening to Schiff call Obama holdovers who all admit they have no evidence - direct, hearsay, written or any other of any quid pro quo by Trump - but instead explain how upset they are that Trump did not allow them to continue with Obama's policies about Ukraine.

So, who do you agree with: Obama or Trump on Ukraine.
 
joko104 said:
Who do you agree with on policy and actions about Ukraine:

Obama: No military aid to Ukraine. No American troops in Ukraine. Russia seizes all of Ukraine's Crimea and invades Eastern Ukraine covertly taking more Ukraine territory. Possibly this was part of Obama's post-election "flexibility" with Russia.

Trump: Military aid to Ukraine. Weapons to Ukraine. American troops in Ukraine (by "Ukraine" I mean what is left of it after Obama/Putin). Russia has not gained 1 inch more since Trump became president.

Ukraine is critical to Russia returning to being a great empire. Without Ukraine, Russia is just another Eurasian country - huge but poor and weak. In my opinion, Obama was the greatest asset and operative Russia ever had, doing all possible to help Putin rebuild the Russian empire successfully - stopped by President Trump.

We know are listening to Schiff call Obama holdovers who all admit they have no evidence - direct, hearsay, written or any other of any quid pro quo by Trump - but instead explain how upset they are that Trump did not allow them to continue with Obama's policies about Ukraine.

So, who do you agree with: Obama or Trump on Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Actual data says your description of aid for Ukraine is wrong. U.S. Foreign Aid by Country
 
joko104 said:
Russia has not gained 1 inch more since Trump became president.
Click to expand...

You’re right, they haven’t gained an inch. They’ve been given the entire Donbass region. Maybe it wouldn’t have turned out that way if Trump had provided the aid Congress allocated when it could have made a difference instead of attaching strings for shady and illegal favors.
 
Redress said:
Actual data says your description of aid for Ukraine is wrong. U.S. Foreign Aid by Country
Click to expand...

:roll:

You prove Joe Biden's claim when he said Democrats will no longer accept facts. So much so that you didn't even look at your own link:

Military aid to Ukraine: "0%"

What do you think 0% means?
 
Ikari said:
What!!?? Joko completely made up something in order to launch a partisan hack attack!!?? I'd never believe it.
Click to expand...
You also prove Joe Biden's claim when he said Democrats will no longer accept facts. So much so that you didn't even look at the link of the message you quoted:

Military aid to Ukraine: "0%"

What do you think 0% means?
 
Trump said he doesn't care about Ukraine whatsoever. I believe his exact words were 'doesn't give a **** about Ukraine'. Further, he withheld the aid to Ukraine to gain political advantage in America, and only released it when his hand was caught in the cookie jar.
 
joko104 said:
Who do you agree with on policy and actions about Ukraine:</snip>
Click to expand...

Anyone who does not ask a foreign country to investigate Americans with no sound reasoning to do so.
 
joko104 said:
You also prove Joe Biden's claim when he said Democrats will no longer accept facts. So much so that you didn't even look at the link of the message you quoted:

Military aid to Ukraine: "0%"

What do you think 0% means?
Click to expand...

Not a Democrat, but keep making things up and lying if you think it makes your argument, lol.
 
Napoleon said:
You’re right, they haven’t gained an inch. They’ve been given the entire Donbass region. Maybe it wouldn’t have turned out that way if Trump had provided the aid Congress allocated when it could have made a difference instead of attaching strings for shady and illegal favors.
Click to expand...

Lying is the #1 tactic of the Democratic Party. Russia took the Donbass region starting in 2014. War in Donbass - Wikipedia But you, too, in your message bow down to the Democratic Party's demand that you never accept any "facts" when it comes to Trump. So in your messages you don't.
 
joko104 said:
:roll:

You prove Joe Biden's claim when he said Democrats will no longer accept facts. So much so that you didn't even look at your own link:

Military aid to Ukraine: "0%"

What do you think 0% means?
Click to expand...

You do know that includes data from under President Trump, right? You got caught making **** up. Do try and fail less.
 
joko104 said:
Lying is the #1 tactic of the Democratic Party. Russia took the Donbass region starting in 2014. War in Donbass - Wikipedia But you, too, in your message bow down to the Democratic Party's demand that you never accept any "facts" when it comes to Trump. So in your messages you don't.
Click to expand...

Russia invaded the Donbass in 2014. Ukraine surrendered it last month.
 
Ikari said:
Not a Democrat, but keep making things up and lying if you think it makes your argument, lol.
Click to expand...

Wow, you are calling Redress's link a lie.

OK, how much military aid and how many troops do you say Obama sent to Ukraine? Redress's own link says NONE. You claim that claim of her message is a lie. So what do you say is accurate in terms of military aid to Ukraine under Obama?

Obama approved loans (that Ukraine has to pay back) so Ukraine could pay its gas bill to Russia - meaning Obama gave money to Russia via Ukraine. The total amount of money Obama caused to go to Russia via Eastern European countries - money that when to Russia - but the Eastern European countries have to repay - is into the 10s of billions of dollars.
 
joko104 said:
Wow, you are calling Redress's link a lie.

OK, how much military aid and how many troops do you say Obama sent to Ukraine? Redress's own link says NONE. You claim that claim of her message is a lie. So what do you say is accurate in terms of military aid to Ukraine under Obama?

Obama approved loans (that Ukraine has to pay back) so Ukraine could pay its gas bill to Russia - meaning Obama gave money to Russia via Ukraine. The total amount of money Obama caused to go to Russia via Eastern European countries - money that when to Russia - but the Eastern European countries have to repay - is into the 10s of billions of dollars.
Click to expand...

Well, no. You just failed to understand what it said. Here is something that is a little clearer: DOD Announces $250M to Ukraine > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Release

This reaffirms the long-standing defense relationship between the United States and Ukraine and will bring total U.S. security assistance to Ukraine to $1.5 billion since 2014.
Click to expand...

Who was president from 2014 till the start of 2017?
 
joko104 said:
Wow, you are calling Redress's link a lie.
Click to expand...

You implied I was a Democrat, I was correcting your lie. But it seems that you must still use lies in your arguments to pretend you have a point.

Whatever, have fun with the intellectual dishonesty.
 
Napoleon said:
Russia invaded the Donbass in 2014. Ukraine surrendered it last month.
Click to expand...

Who was president in 2014?

Ukraine has not surrendered Donbass. A cease fire is not a surrender. There is talk for elections in that region - which in fact is still part of Ukraine, not Russia as you falsely claim.

:roll: Still waiting for ANY Democrat on the forum to at post a message that is anything but completely false on this thread.
 
Redress said:
Well, no. You just failed to understand what it said. Here is something that is a little clearer: DOD Announces $250M to Ukraine > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Release



Who was president from 2014 till the start of 2017?
Click to expand...

Obama was president from 2014 to 2017.

Yes, under Trump military aid went to Ukraine as your link points out.
"The new funds will provide equipment to support ongoing training programs and operational needs, including capabilities to enhance: maritime situational awareness and operations as part of ongoing U.S. efforts to increase support for Ukraine’s Navy and Naval Infantry; the defensive capacity and survivability of Ukraine’s Land and Special Operations Forces through the provision of sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, and counter-artillery radars; command and control; electronic warfare detection and secure communications; military mobility; night vision; and, military medical treatment."

Military Aid.

As I stated, Obama approves tens of billions going to Ukraine and other Eastern European countries - with the money going to pay their natural gas bills to Russia - but those countries on the hook for the loan - plus interest of course.

Look at your link. MONETARY aid - with the lenders dictating how it spent (research that that always the case) - and MILITARY aid are not the same whatsoever.

If Obama allowed ANY military assistance to Ukraine, cite what you say it was.
 
joko104 said:
Obama was president from 2014 to 2017.

Yes, under Trump military aid went to Ukraine as your link points out.
"The new funds will provide equipment to support ongoing training programs and operational needs, including capabilities to enhance: maritime situational awareness and operations as part of ongoing U.S. efforts to increase support for Ukraine’s Navy and Naval Infantry; the defensive capacity and survivability of Ukraine’s Land and Special Operations Forces through the provision of sniper rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, and counter-artillery radars; command and control; electronic warfare detection and secure communications; military mobility; night vision; and, military medical treatment."

Military Aid.

As I stated, Obama approves tens of billions going to Ukraine and other Eastern European countries - with the money going to pay their natural gas bills to Russia - but those countries on the hook for the loan - plus interest of course.

Look at your link. MONETARY aid - with the lenders dictating how it spent (research that that always the case) - and MILITARY aid are not the same whatsoever.

If Obama allowed ANY military assistance to Ukraine, cite what you say it was.
Click to expand...

So you are not going to admit it when you are caught flat out lying. Noted.
 
Redress said:
So you are not going to admit it when you are caught flat out lying. Noted.
Click to expand...

Your's is a ridiculous message and waste of time. Really, other than getting other Democrat "likes" there is no point to doing so.

My poll and OP is accurate - and you actually posted evidence supporting it.

I did give you opportunity to prove your claim, but instead you posted a "flat out lie" about me - a very obvious one.

Second chance, state what MILITARY aid you claim Obama provided to Ukraine.
 
joko104 said:
Who was president in 2014?

Ukraine has not surrendered Donbass. A cease fire is not a surrender. There is talk for elections in that region - which in fact is still part of Ukraine, not Russia as you falsely claim.

:roll: Still waiting for ANY Democrat on the forum to at post a message that is anything but completely false on this thread.
Click to expand...

Lol. A cease-fire is indeed a surrender when it involves withdrawing your forces and abandoning the territory to the Russia-backed rebels. The Ukrainians certainly see it that way and that’s the way it is because the deal supported by Zelensky grants autonomy to the Donbass from Ukraine with elections that would undoubtedly produce a Kremlin puppet. The only “talk” about it now is whether or not Ukrainians would even be allowed to run for office.
 
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