Is Trump a good President?

MrWonka said:

What exactly did she do or say that bothered you so? You do understand that even Trump's DOJ had no choice, but to exonerate her from all the so called "scandals" that plagued her candidacy. It was without a doubt fabricated nonsense.

Over 1000 federal prosecutors have come forward and stated that Trump would have been indicted on at least 10 separate federal charges had he not been the President. That was before this whole Ukraine nonsense. That was before what he did the Kurds. Respect for the United States of America has plummeted around the world thanks to this reckless and irresponsible president. Hillary Clinton was an experienced stateswoman that was respected around the world. She my be imperfect, but I struggle to wrap my head around people who can convince themselves she's even in the same ballpark with this man.

What exactly did Hillary Clinton do to you that could possibly come close to being that bad?

Click to expand...

Nothing she said has come close to what he did even before he was President, which is why I voted for her, not him.

roguenuke said:

Nothing she said has come close to what he did even before he was President, which is why I voted for her, not him.

Click to expand...

Right, but you said she's done and said some pretty bad things. I'm trying to figure out exactly what that could have been. I mean she voted for the War Iraq I suppose, but only because Republicans lied about it. That's a mistake, but it's one that a lot of politicians had a hard time avoiding shortly after 9/11.

What else you got?

MrWonka said:

Well it would be if you assume that 9 million Romney voters also voted for Clinton. Given that the entire Bush family voted for Clinton I think its safe to say that Trump turned a lot of former Republicans into Democrats.

Click to expand...

I agree that there were some crossover votes from Romney to Clinton, but I have never seen any evidence to suggest its no more than a tiny percentage.

Fledermaus said:

Not relevant to what I said.

Click to expand...

It is, because it shows that even among the few that might have flipped to Trump in 2016 it seems like pretty much all of them and then some more massively regret that decision. To the point where they not only wont vote for him again in 2020, but where the actually want him in jail.

MrWonka said:

It is, because it shows that even among the few that might have flipped to Trump in 2016 it seems like pretty much all of them and then some more massively regret that decision. To the point where they not only wont vote for him again in 2020, but where the actually want him in jail.

Click to expand...

The "few"?

Roughly one third of the total vote was independent. Trump won the majority of that vote.

Why aren't independents in your poll?

SouthernDemocrat said:

The math doesn't even work for that ludicrous claim. Trump received 62.9 million votes compared to Hillary's 65.8 million votes in 2016. In 2012, Obama received 65.9 million. Hillary ended up only about 80,000 less votes than Obama had in 2012. In contrast, Trump won with a lower percentage of the vote than what Romney lost with just 4 years earlier. This notion that millions of Obama voters switched to Trump is utter nonsense. It's supported by basic math.

Click to expand...

Trump won the independent vote and pulled enough Democrat votes to win.

Period.

I mean...

I watched an Obama speech last night. It was so refreshing to see a leader that actually seemed to care about the well-being of the nation. He acknowledged how divided we are as a nation but one phrase stuck in my mind as something we don't hear from trump in any form:

"There is common ground".

trump would never say anything like that. His goal is to capitalize on the division in order to further solidify his base. As a result we are further divided. this is the main reason trump is such an abysmal leader.

SouthernDemocrat said:

The math doesn't even work for that ludicrous claim. Trump received 62.9 million votes compared to Hillary's 65.8 million votes in 2016. In 2012, Obama received 65.9 million. Hillary ended up only about 80,000 less votes than Obama had in 2012. In contrast, Trump won with a lower percentage of the vote than what Romney lost with just 4 years earlier. This notion that millions of Obama voters switched to Trump is utter nonsense. It's supported by basic math.

Click to expand...

"What’s that? You haven’t heard about these voters before? Of course you haven’t, because the media would prefer to pretend they don’t exist. They don’t fit the narrative.

White, Black, Latino, man, woman, and everything in-between, millions of Americans felt burnt by “hope and change” and the status quo and wanted something different. And love him or hate him, Donald Trump’s “America First/Make America Great Again” platform appealed to them.

But how? Why?

Great questions. This is why Murphy conducted hundreds of interviews, collected thousands of survey results, and spent weeks traveling battleground states like Pennsylvania in order to find an answer. And what he discovered is interesting yet unsurprising . . . if you’ve been paying attention.

In Democrat to Deplorable, Murphy chronicles this under-researched political phenomenon by asking basic questions so few in the media cared to ponder. Most of the American media lives in a bubble where only people who agree with them are smart. And they only encounter people who agree with them, who went to the same schools, who have the same political beliefs, who profess the same religion (none), work in the same industries, and are typically on the “winning” side of the status quo. Anyone who disagrees with them, or is fundamentally not like them, is stupid and probably evil.

The only explanation we got after Trump’s surprising (to most) win was that his voters were uneducated, racist, dumb, Christian, angry, and white. Everything was driven by animus, so the conventional wisdom went, and the Democrats just didn’t do a good enough job getting their message out.

Oh, and that Trump cheated and was a secret Kremlin-backed agent aided by Russia literally hacking the election.

What Murphy found instead was a wide cross-section of people for whom the American system, and indeed the entire post-World War II neoliberal world order, has completely and utterly failed. There are a series of in-depth interviews as well as an examination of Murphy’s survey data, but what really sets Democrat to Deplorable apart is the structure. Murphy built it in a series of ever-expanding concentric circles, beginning with his own personal life, spreading out to the subjects of his interviews, a discussion of the state of American culture, and ending with the big picture–what motivated these party jumpers to elect the golden-haired, orange-skinned, brash, nationalist real-estate magnate from New York City to the highest office in the land.

Unsurprisingly, a vote for Trump was a vote against political correctness to most. There was also a sense that the left disdained regular Americans who were not coastal elites. Feminism and the denigration of men and boys–and their falling behind in American society–played a role. And yes, white people, especially straight white men, were sick to death of being blamed for everything and accused of having undeserved privilege while facing increased joblessness, suicide rates, and hatred from a small though powerful radical fringe of race-hustlers and grievance-mongers.

When reality doesn’t match what you’re told, how can one not be upset?

Murphy writes with great clarity and has a knack for metaphor and poetic language, making sure to pull back when things start to get a little too “purple.” He also has a palpable sympathy for his interview subjects, regardless of their circumstances, and manages the deftest of tricks while writing a book on contemporary partisan politics: He avoids name-calling and denigrating people who voted for Hillary Clinton. Murphy is no Milo–he’s not in it for the “lulz.” Murphy is a genuinely curious guy who saw an issue he didn’t fully understand and wanted to understand it. Well-researched, comprehensively detailed, and hey! There are pages and pages of footnotes for you to check the primary sources and do your own homework!

My God! A hundred years ago, he could have been a journalist! I mean, a real one!"

Regarding post #33, regardless of why those who voted for Trump voted the way they did, he received millions of fewer votes than the person who lost. Moreover, Trump double crossed those voters, who were promised better, cheaper, more coverage for healthcare and didn’t raise taxes on the rich as promised.

If after almost three years of Trump some of you still retain fear and loathing for Hillary despite her never being found guilty of anything but remaining married to Bill, there is nothing more to say to you. If this is how you evaluate leaders, you need to seriously rethink the way your mind works because whether you liked her personally or not, she would have made a wonderful POTUS compared with Trump. Trump will go down as the worst POTUS in our history. Historians will not be kind to him or you for having voted for him or refused to vote for Hillary out of some juvenile decision making process.

akyron said:

You neglected democrat and yes.

“Democrat to Deplorable" takes a deep look at the nine million Democrats who proudly switched parties to vote for President Donald Trump.

Click to expand...

Because they were CONNED. Take a look at how many of them realize they made a huge mistake and won't do that again.

The AntiDonald said:

Because they were CONNED. Take a look at how many of them realize they made a huge mistake and won't do that again.

Click to expand...

Oh yes. democrats have been conned by the democrat party for generations.

Sun Aug 27, 2017

Bernie Supporters Call for Demexit After DNC Fraud Lawsuit Dismissed

"Ardent supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) lashed out at the Democratic Party establishment and threatened to bail on the party after a federal judge in Florida dismissed a class-action suit Friday alleging that the Democratic National Committee (DNC) illegally favored Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton over Sanders.

The DNC’s treatment of Sanders, who switched his party affiliation to run in the 2016 Democratic primaries, came under scrutiny after the 2016 hack into the DNC’s servers revealed that key party officials favored the more traditional Clinton over the progressive Sanders. But on Friday, Ronald Reagan appointee Judge William Zloch dismissed what Sanders’ supporters referred to as the “DNC Fraud Lawsuit” in a 28-page decision.

(VIDEO-AT-LINK)

"To the extent plaintiffs wish to air their general grievances with the DNC or its candidate selection process, their redress is through the ballot box, the DNC's internal workings, or their right of free speech — not through the judiciary," Zloch wrote. "To the extent plaintiffs have asserted specific causes of action grounded in specific factual allegations, it is this court's emphatic duty to measure plaintiffs' pleadings against existing legal standards."

Zloch ultimately found that the "plaintiffs have not presented a case that is cognizable in federal court," noting that it was beyond the court's legal jurisdiction to decide "whether plaintiffs have suffered a concrete injury particularized to them, or one certainly impending, that is traceable to the DNC and its former chair's conduct."

"The court holds that they have not, which means the truth of their claims cannot be tested in this court," Zloch concluded, although he noted that "in evaluating plaintiffs' claims at this stage, the court assumes their allegations are true — that the DNC and Wasserman Schultz held a palpable bias in favor Clinton and sought to propel her ahead of her Democratic opponents."

Miami lawyers Jared and Elizabeth Beck filed a class-action suit against both the DNC and its former chairwoman, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida on June 28, 2016. The Becks said they filed the suit on behalf of other Sanders supporters across 45 states who believed that Schultz had "rigged" the primaries and exhibited "intentional, willful, wanton, and malicious" conduct in violation of Article 5, Section 4 of the DNC Charter.

The plaintiffs represented three main classes: DNC donors, Sanders donors, and registered Democrats across the board who wanted back the money they gave to the DNC .

DNC lawyer Bruce Spiva argued in court back in April that "there's no contractual obligation here" between the donors and the DNC, claiming that "it's not a situation where a promise has been made that is an enforceable promise."

Although many Sanders supporters felt bitterly betrayed by the DNC and the party establishment after the hackers released the emails, the mainstream media largely appeared to ignore the party's inner drama.

"For Sanders supporters, the lawsuit provides an opportunity for vindication for being cheated and attacked by the Democratic establishment," Michael Sainato, a reporter for the Observer, wrote back on May 8. "Now, the DNC is on record arguing that its voters have no reason to trust it to maintain free and fair elections."

After Zloch dismissed the suit, Sanders supporters and progressives flocked to the DNC Fraud Lawsuit's Facebook page to voice their grievances and express their frustrations with the Democratic Party. While some pledged to never donate money to the DNC ever again, others promised to bail on the party and support other candidates.

Facebook user Vicki L Nulik Morrison argued Friday on the Facebook page that the suit "was worth it just to hear the DNC say in court that they didn't have to play fair or even follow their own guidelines."

"They admitted they are crooks and they will NEVER see another dime of my money," Nulick Morrison continued. "I understand they are having a hard time raising money! That suits me just fine!! I hope they go broke."

All you need to know about the difference between the two major parties is evident over the last ten years.

During the financial crisis, Democrats wanted to extend unemployment benefits while the Reps resisted, even though unemployment was about 10%. The Dems created the ACA that gave tens of millions health insurance and as soon as the GOP was in power, they tried to strip it from tens of millions.

Vadinho said:

If after almost three years of Trump some of you still retain fear and loathing for Hillary despite her never being found guilty of anything but remaining married to Bill, there is nothing more to say to you. If this is how you evaluate leaders, you need to seriously rethink the way your mind works because whether you liked her personally or not, she would have made a wonderful POTUS compared with Trump. Trump will go down as the worst POTUS in our history. Historians will not be kind to him or you for having voted for him or refused to vote for Hillary out of some juvenile decision making process.

Click to expand...

Uh, she was unquestionably guilty of deleting e-mails, the government simply chose not to prosecute at the time.

If you wanna say the crime doesn't matter to you, feel free. But there's no doubt that she committed the crime.

Fledermaus said:

Trump won the independent vote and pulled enough Democrat votes to win.

Period.

Click to expand...

Trump won a lower percentage of independents than Romney won in 2012. Trump won because he ran against a terrible candidate, not because he had a majority of Americans that ever supported him.

akyron said:

"What’s that? You haven’t heard about these voters before? Of course you haven’t, because the media would prefer to pretend they don’t exist. They don’t fit the narrative.

White, Black, Latino, man, woman, and everything in-between, millions of Americans felt burnt by “hope and change” and the status quo and wanted something different. And love him or hate him, Donald Trump’s “America First/Make America Great Again” platform appealed to them.

But how? Why?

Great questions. This is why Murphy conducted hundreds of interviews, collected thousands of survey results, and spent weeks traveling battleground states like Pennsylvania in order to find an answer. And what he discovered is interesting yet unsurprising . . . if you’ve been paying attention.

In Democrat to Deplorable, Murphy chronicles this under-researched political phenomenon by asking basic questions so few in the media cared to ponder. Most of the American media lives in a bubble where only people who agree with them are smart. And they only encounter people who agree with them, who went to the same schools, who have the same political beliefs, who profess the same religion (none), work in the same industries, and are typically on the “winning” side of the status quo. Anyone who disagrees with them, or is fundamentally not like them, is stupid and probably evil.

The only explanation we got after Trump’s surprising (to most) win was that his voters were uneducated, racist, dumb, Christian, angry, and white. Everything was driven by animus, so the conventional wisdom went, and the Democrats just didn’t do a good enough job getting their message out.

Oh, and that Trump cheated and was a secret Kremlin-backed agent aided by Russia literally hacking the election.

What Murphy found instead was a wide cross-section of people for whom the American system, and indeed the entire post-World War II neoliberal world order, has completely and utterly failed. There are a series of in-depth interviews as well as an examination of Murphy’s survey data, but what really sets Democrat to Deplorable apart is the structure. Murphy built it in a series of ever-expanding concentric circles, beginning with his own personal life, spreading out to the subjects of his interviews, a discussion of the state of American culture, and ending with the big picture–what motivated these party jumpers to elect the golden-haired, orange-skinned, brash, nationalist real-estate magnate from New York City to the highest office in the land.

Unsurprisingly, a vote for Trump was a vote against political correctness to most. There was also a sense that the left disdained regular Americans who were not coastal elites. Feminism and the denigration of men and boys–and their falling behind in American society–played a role. And yes, white people, especially straight white men, were sick to death of being blamed for everything and accused of having undeserved privilege while facing increased joblessness, suicide rates, and hatred from a small though powerful radical fringe of race-hustlers and grievance-mongers.

When reality doesn’t match what you’re told, how can one not be upset?

Murphy writes with great clarity and has a knack for metaphor and poetic language, making sure to pull back when things start to get a little too “purple.” He also has a palpable sympathy for his interview subjects, regardless of their circumstances, and manages the deftest of tricks while writing a book on contemporary partisan politics: He avoids name-calling and denigrating people who voted for Hillary Clinton. Murphy is no Milo–he’s not in it for the “lulz.” Murphy is a genuinely curious guy who saw an issue he didn’t fully understand and wanted to understand it. Well-researched, comprehensively detailed, and hey! There are pages and pages of footnotes for you to check the primary sources and do your own homework!

My God! A hundred years ago, he could have been a journalist! I mean, a real one!"

Click to expand...

So basically, the guy ignored all the statistical evidence on voting patterns in 2016, and decided to go with ancedotals...

Here are the facts: Trump won a lower percentage of independents than Romney did. Trump won with a lower percentage of votes than what Romney lost with just 4 years earlier. Hillary came within about 80,000 votes of having the same number that Obama had in 2012.

Trump has never had a majority of Americans behind him. He has never a had a broad base. What he had was the good luck to run against a terrible candidate and was thus able to win with a lower percentage of Americans than what Romney had just 4 years earlier.

I voted third party, but I'm definitely voting Democrat this time.



Trump is worse by orders of magnitude than I ever imagined possible.

SouthernDemocrat said:

Trump won a lower percentage of independents than Romney won in 2012. Trump won because he ran against a terrible candidate, not because he had a majority of Americans that ever supported him.

Click to expand...

Trump wasn't running against Romney.

Amelia said:

I voted third party, but I'm definitely voting Democrat this time.



Trump is worse by orders of magnitude than I ever imagined possible.

Click to expand...

I think this sums it up nicely.

Ouroboros said:

Uh, she was unquestionably guilty of deleting e-mails, the government simply chose not to prosecute at the time.

If you wanna say the crime doesn't matter to you, feel free. But there's no doubt that she committed the crime.

Click to expand...

If that is all that you care about then I feel for you. We are in the middle of gigantic clusterfruck of historic proportions and you are worrying about deleted emails.

MTAtech said:

Regarding post #33, regardless of why those who voted for Trump voted the way they did, he received millions of fewer votes than the person who lost.

Click to expand...

Enjoy playing golf with a basketball.

The rules are simple. Every state counts. Visit them. Talk to them. See and realize what is going on in THEIR lives.

It might just be much easier to visit 9 states and win but then we would be in mob tyranny.

Amelia said:

I voted third party, but I'm definitely voting Democrat this time.



Trump is worse by orders of magnitude than I ever imagined possible.

Click to expand...

Yes. Freeing millions from slavery really pissed off democrats last time as well.

Vadinho said:

If that is all that you care about then I feel for you. We are in the middle of gigantic clusterfruck of historic proportions and you are worrying about deleted emails.

Click to expand...

I never said that was the only thing I worried about.

However, the deletion of the e-mails is one clue to the origins of what you call "the clusterfruck."

No, Trump is a great president.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

He's really good for white supremacists and Russia. So I would think a number of people in the United States would say yes.