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Trump vs. Cheney/Bush: The Worst President Ever Challenge

Trump vs. Cheney/Bush: Which is the Worst President Ever?

  • Trump

    Votes: 31 47.7%

  • Bush/Cheney

    Votes: 12 18.5%

  • Other

    Votes: 22 33.8%
  • Total voters
    65
Dans La Lune

Dans La Lune

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Which president deserves the title for the Worst President Ever? I put Cheney/Bush as one entity, because the vast majority of the decisions made during the Bush Admin were actually made by Cheney.

The case for Bush/Cheney: Turned the tragedy of 9/11 against the American people and used it as leverage to launch an invasion against an uninvolved nation, killing at least a million innocent Iraqis, thousands of American soldiers, squandered trillions in American resources and destabilized a large region of the world -- vastly increasing terrorism, exacerbating the migration crisis, and strengthening Iran and Russia in the collateral effects.

The case for Trump: Epic and almost comical mismanagement of the American government, unprecedented and unchecked corruption, transforming the Supreme Court and lower courts via the Federalist Society, exacerbating the partisan divide, fomenting overt White Nationalism, normalizing dictators and autocratic governments, alienating allies, and arguably cementing the decline of American influence and power throughout the world.

Feel free to challenge or add to the 'cases' for the respective presidents. I'm adding an 'Other' category because many conservatives will write in 'Obama!' for what I can only assume is a non-racist reason.
 
Bush is the reason I no longer vote Republican. But even then, he's still better than Trump.
 
I voted Bush/Cheney, because I am convinced by the case I made in the OP. Cheney is equal to John Bolton, and I have already publicly said that I'd prefer a President Trump to a President Bolton. Launching an unnecessary and unprovoked war had collateral consequences of such magnitude that Trump's corruption and rhetoric are almost quaint by comparison. I doubt Trump could have been elected had Bush/Cheney not initiated the series of events which began with the Iraq Invasion.
 
Gotta love the choices to this poll, good thing "other" was given.

Do you guys think a liberal created this poll ? :)
 
The Iraq war was a horrible decision leading, and was Bush's largest mistake. Which I feel led to the relative decline of the US, due to the economic and political costs of it.
Obama screwed up with Libya and Syria, while international refugee's crisis's were the result had little negative impact on the US overall

Both were played by Russia, Bush with Georgia, Obama with Crimea (both issues should have been foreseen )

Trump, is changing the global international order, which if Trump gets reelected may not be recoverable. US world leadership is on the table, for some that will be ideal for others a negative. He may also hasten the decline of the USD as the world reserve currency. That will reduce the ability of the government to borrow on international markets leading to a merging of GDP per capita and GDP (ppp) per capita comparisons

Trump has also removed all of the norms of behavior for Presidents, being the most openly petty, and vindictive president (again openly) I can remember

So based on that, Trump by far, even though some of his foreign policy decisions and actions I like more than what Bush and Obama had done. No new wars, fewer bombings far less physical interventions. I agree with talking to NK, even to Iran which seems to be something he is floating around. Talking to the Taliban while a good idea is most likely a waste. Any agreement with them would be broken within a few years (except ones regarding harbouring terrorists provided the US said that bombs will drop on the Taliban leadership if any were)
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The Iraq war was a horrible decision leading, and was Bush's largest mistake. Which I feel led to the relative decline of the US, due to the economic and political costs of it.
Obama screwed up with Libya and Syria, while international refugee's crisis's were the result had little negative impact on the US overall

Both were played by Russia, Bush with Georgia, Obama with Crimea (both issues should have been foreseen )

Trump, is changing the global international order, which if Trump gets reelected may not be recoverable. US world leadership is on the table, for some that will be ideal for others a negative. He may also hasten the decline of the USD as the world reserve currency. That will reduce the ability of the government to borrow on international markets leading to a merging of GDP per capita and GDP (ppp) per capita comparisons

Trump has also removed all of the norms of behavior for Presidents, being the most openly petty, and vindictive president (again openly) I can remember

So based on that, Trump by far, even though some of his foreign policy decisions and actions I like more than what Bush and Obama had done. No new wars, fewer bombings far less physical interventions. I agree with talking to NK, even to Iran which seems to be something he is floating around. Talking to the Taliban while a good idea is most likely a waste. Any agreement with them would be broken within a few years (except ones regarding harbouring terrorists provided the US said that bombs will drop on the Taliban leadership if any were)
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I didn't vote in your poll- that said lets look at this post. There are more than one problem but I'll focus on one- US leadership on the world stage- the best leadership is by example, not rhetoric- the example the US has set for generations is rule by force (see the spread west in the US for a starting place)- in a monkey see monkey do world what is expected of the follower monkeys when the leader monkey uses force to achieve a goal?
 
Gdjjr said:
I didn't vote in your poll- that said lets look at this post. There are more than one problem but I'll focus on one- US leadership on the world stage- the best leadership is by example, not rhetoric- the example the US has set for generations is rule by force (see the spread west in the US for a starting place)- in a monkey see monkey do world what is expected of the follower monkeys when the leader monkey uses force to achieve a goal?
Click to expand...

Yes and no

In western Europe, East Asia, and for the last 20 or so years eastern Europe, the US led by example, using it's high ground as a means of influence. Outside of those regions the US has used force, subversion and outright corruption of the leaders of countries to get its way. The second part will not change, but the first is. South Korea and Japan relations have drop to the lowest level I can recall in my lifetime. Western Europe I expect has the lowest opinion of the US in generations. Eastern Europe is still likely supportive of the US for security reasons
 
Gdjjr said:
I didn't vote in your poll- that said lets look at this post. There are more than one problem but I'll focus on one- US leadership on the world stage- the best leadership is by example, not rhetoric- the example the US has set for generations is rule by force (see the spread west in the US for a starting place)- in a monkey see monkey do world what is expected of the follower monkeys when the leader monkey uses force to achieve a goal?
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Governor DeSantis -- is that you??
 
Superfly said:
Governor DeSantis -- is that you??
Click to expand...

My initials are Gdjjr- the G is for my first name, not governor- care to discuss what I said, you know, the message, or just try to attack a messenger?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Yes and no

In western Europe, East Asia, and for the last 20 or so years eastern Europe, the US led by example, using it's high ground as a means of influence. Outside of those regions the US has used force, subversion and outright corruption of the leaders of countries to get its way. The second part will not change, but the first is. South Korea and Japan relations have drop to the lowest level I can recall in my lifetime. Western Europe I expect has the lowest opinion of the US in generations. Eastern Europe is still likely supportive of the US for security reasons
Click to expand...

Immorality has no high ground- using force for influence is immoral- relying on it is immoral- lying is immoral- the follower monkeys aren't limited to particular regions- the statement was the "world leader"- the best/true leadership should benefit the follower, not enrich the leader- the leader is being enriched through hegemony- the rest of the world has been taking notes- chickens will come home to roost- Karma can be a bitch- what goes around comes around- axioms came about for a reason- excuses are simply attempts at justification- the lameness of excuses is coming to light by shining the light- liberty and justice for all, right?
 
Kreton said:
Bush was a mediocre but not bad president.

Trump is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to America.
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I'm not a Trump fan, but how can you say that? The worst thing to happen to America is debatable- there are so many it's impossible to point to one-
 
Gdjjr said:
My initials are Gdjjr- the G is for my first name, not governor- care to discuss what I said, you know, the message, or just try to attack a messenger?
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giphy.gif
 
Kreton said:
Bush was a mediocre but not bad president.

Trump is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to America.
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I don't know. Patriot Act, Real ID Act, Iraq War, etc. I don't think Bush was merely "mediocre". He was bad. Just not as bad and embarrassing as Trump has turned out to be.
 
Ikari said:
I don't know. Patriot Act, Real ID Act, Iraq War, etc. I don't think Bush was merely "mediocre". He was bad. Just not as bad and embarrassing as Trump has turned out to be.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I used to think Bush was the worst, until Trump said, "Hold my beer."
 
Kreton said:
Bush was a mediocre but not bad president.

Trump is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to America.
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And it's not because he's a Republican, it's because he has given license to the most venal impulses that a healthy society would normally chalk up to extremism. There isn't a cruelty, kick in the teeth or hypocritical double standard this despicable waste of flesh would pass up.
He is literally a horrible human being.
 
Dans La Lune said:
I voted Bush/Cheney, because I am convinced by the case I made in the OP. Cheney is equal to John Bolton, and I have already publicly said that I'd prefer a President Trump to a President Bolton. Launching an unnecessary and unprovoked war had collateral consequences of such magnitude that Trump's corruption and rhetoric are almost quaint by comparison. I doubt Trump could have been elected had Bush/Cheney not initiated the series of events which began with the Iraq Invasion.
Click to expand...

You make some interesting points.

After 9/11, the Bush/Cheney administration saw what they thought was an opportunity subdue the Middle East by invading Iraq, coincidentally gaining control of its oil resources. This, they could use as a lever against Saudi Arabia and Iran.

The extent that they had to go to to hide and defend their own actions and their own mistakes hollowed out the Republican Party. That and the dumbing down of media in general, and of conservative media in particular, which had become (and remains) a Provence for con men and carnival barkers.

When Shawn Hannity and Rush Limbaugh are your standard bearers, you’re going to get clowns like Palin, Bachman and Trump, and not Eisenhower, Nixon, or Dole.
 
Ikari said:
I don't know. Patriot Act, Real ID Act, Iraq War, etc. I don't think Bush was merely "mediocre". He was bad. Just not as bad and embarrassing as Trump has turned out to be.
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I agree about what a disaster Bush was as president. The combination of him and Cheney was indeed toxic. Trump brings toxic to a whole new level. It's ingrained in his personality. Bush, at least, was and is a nice man.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
And it's not because he's a Republican, it's because he has given license to the most venal impulses that a healthy society would normally chalk up to extremism. There isn't a cruelty, kick in the teeth or hypocritical double standard this despicable waste of flesh would pass up.
He is literally a horrible human being.
Click to expand...


Trump and his loutish behavior should be an affront to any elected official anywhere.
 
Ikari said:
I don't know. Patriot Act, Real ID Act, Iraq War, etc. I don't think Bush was merely "mediocre". He was bad. Just not as bad and embarrassing as Trump has turned out to be.
Click to expand...

I'm on the fence on the Patriot Act. I don't fully agree with it but there are some necessities in there.

I support the Iraq war. It was the right thing to do, but it was executed poorly.

He also declared a ban on racial profiling. He extended benefits to ssm couples. Banned emminent domain. Nuclear arms treaty. Actually spoke out against muslim discrimination. Improved medicare. He responded to 9/11. Protected marine life.

People remember the crap they don't like, however, ol W did some good.
 
lpast said:
Gotta love the choices to this poll, good thing "other" was given.

Do you guys think a liberal created this poll ? :)
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No doubt !

Like...where's the Obama choice??? He's been the worst....worse than Jimmy Carter if you can imagine that!
 
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