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Do pro gun people have some responsibility to fix the mass shooting problem?

Do pro gun people have some responsibility to fix the mass shooting problem?

  • Need more info

    Votes: 6 6.8%

  • Yes, pro gun people should help fix the problem

    Votes: 26 29.5%

  • No, they're not responsible in the slightest

    Votes: 56 63.6%
  • Total voters
    88
  • Poll closed .
HumblePi said:
Who said that someone doesn't want citizens to own firearms. That's sort of abbreviating the real issue, isn't it? Nobody, and I mean NO BODY has ever said a single word about not wanting citizens to own firearms. Hell, don't you think WE OWN GUNS TOO? Christ you people are so weak-minded and malleable that it's a miracle you can function day to day.
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so you have missed the posters like Oscar who say that they wish that the second amendment was repealed and all private firearms are banned. Or are you just pretending they didn't say that. There are several prominent posters that have both called for a complete ban on firearms-OscarLevant, Rich 2018, and that noonereal all have said that
 
upsideguy said:


Hey, cool opinion piece by "...Chris Cox is the executive director of the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action..."

Not exactly a compelling unbiased view of why the CDC should not have it in their domain. Instead, a plethora of unsubstantiated rhetoric, without any specific references to any actual study, that says very little other than 'we are the NRA and will allow nothing that stands in the way of unfettered gun rights.'

I certainly did enjoy this particular passage as an example of scathing argument. Its just so compelling "....More gun control, which plenty of respected researchers have found to be ineffective....."

So prominent and in such great numbers are these "respected researchers" that we don't even have to name them.. because, well, you know.

Nowhere in that article did Cox suggest what could be done... no, that isn't something the NRA does. They simply tell us what can't be done.

This is the reason I hold NRA members accountable for the continued gun problem in this country. Lead, follow or get of the way. They do none of the above but are instead proud of being IN THE WAY.... and that is why its membership must shoulder some of the blame. You don't like that statement, then cancel your NRA membership as you are guilty by association.

NRA, you don't want the CDC studying this (after all, I thought they were telling us this is about mental illness), then lead the charge and tell us who should study this.....but, that won't happen because its the NRA's job to simply get in the way. NRA, you say you are about responsible gun ownership.... well, you have some irresponsibility in your ranks. Do your job. Clean it up.

So, the direct answer to the OP... I don't hold gun owners responsible, I hold NRA members partially responsible.
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do you call on the NAACP to do something about the fact that more than half the murders in the USA are caused by blacks? Do you damn the ACLU for kiddie porn or Gay rights groups for AIDS.

So your idiotic attempt to blame the NRA is nothing more than typical leftwing political nonsense
 
Tlrmln said:
But, but,.....but.....um.....TRUMP IS A LIAR!!!!


To be fair, technically he didn't "say" those words. He just clicked on a poll.
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Utter and total destruction.
 
upsideguy said:
NRA, you don't want the CDC studying this (after all, I thought they were telling us this is about mental illness), then lead the charge and tell us who should study this.....but, that won't happen because its the NRA's job to simply get in the way. NRA, you say you are about responsible gun ownership.... well, you have some irresponsibility in your ranks. Do your job. Clean it up.
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If you want it studied, you pay for it. Start a foundation. If everyone who voted for Clinton in 2016 contributed an average of $15/month, they could raise more than the CDC's entire annual budget. You could start an entire industry with the sole purpose of proving to us how bad guns really are. You wouldn't even have to be objective. Of course, you could probably save far more lives by spending that money on something useful, but that's the beauty of it -- it would be your choice!

What's more important to you, your Netflix subscription or the lives of innocent children?
 
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HumblePi said:
I don't think that's what the poll states. The question was whether or not pro gun people should help fix the problem. That has nothing at all to do with your responsibility for the actions of others. It has to do with responsible gun owners being responsible enough to want to fix the problem of weapons of mass destruction getting into the hands of people that should never get their hands on a gun. Most responsible gun owners would agree to that.
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All responsible gun owners laugh their ass off when the words “weapons of mass destruction” are used in describing firearms available to the general public.

We see that the users of those words are emotionally unstable and as such are not honest partners in solving anything.

We all agree in personal responsibility and take our responsibilities seriously. Laws are on the books that don’t get enforced, methods suggested that are proven to work are ignored due to the lack of political will or simple wrong headed thinking.

We all agree that we pay taxes and elect officials into public office to help craft legislation that address these issues and those officials fail time and time again to do their jobs, instead more and more they work tireless to strip law abiding citizens of their rights in some childish, insecure quest to “feel safe”.

We all agree our responsibility is to adhere to safe gun practices, usage and storage as defined by our own unique situation.

We all agree that we have absolutely no responsibility to help the weak and childish strip us of our rights, to the contrary we all agree to fight again any and all infringement which prevents us from exercising our Constitutionally protected right.

We all agree that the 2nd Amendment wasn’t for duck hunters nor was it for the exclusive use as protection against other citizens but it was put into place BY REVOLUTIONARIES as a final check and balance against the abuse and tyranny of government, a government turned against the people whose consent to be governed is the authority by which it governs.

That is what responsible gun owners agree with.
 
After reading some of the responses to this blog, I thought gun deaths must be rampant. I was surprised to find it wasn't even in the top twelve causes of death. Listed below.
Heart Disease
Cancer
Unintentional Injuries
Stroke
Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (LungDiseases)
Diabetes
Influenza and Pneumonia
Suicide
Kidney Disease
Alzheimer’s Disease
Septicemia
Liver Disease

Then I looked at actual gun deaths and found that nearly 2/3rds of them are suicides. Anyone thinking that gun control will stop suicides is not playing with a full deck. If you are asking me, I would rather have some ball sack stick a gun in his mouth than cross the center line at high speed and take someone else out with him. Then 2/3rds of the remaining were gang related. Now call me a pessimist but I'll go out on a limb here and say gang bangers have little respect for laws. In fact, almost all these guys are already banned from possessing firearms. Again, no gun legislation will make any difference here. Then after subtracting law enforcement and accidental deaths I found there were only a handful left. Most of those were domestic disputes. My thought is that someone who is intent on killing his ex will do so with or without a gun.

I then asked myself why would any thinking being spend this much time and energy trying to pass laws that would have no effect. Why aren't they spending this time and energy trying to do something that will make a difference? Why isn't this energy geared toward any of the top causes of death? Then the truth struck. This is all politics. This is how the Democrats stir up the lemmings. Lemmings don't think they just follow the lemming leader.
 
vegas giants said:
It is not hollow when the best we can do is to beat places like Yemen when we compare gun violence.


It's just sad
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While our rates are declining by the year, it's not sad at all.
With what people say about our country, linked with how many weapons that are actually in the country at any given time. You'd think we were a country of lawless murders, but that is rather far from the truth.

We have many law abiding citizen, who of which when you comprise legal gun owners. Have a crime rate that can challenge those of law enforcement agencies.

Per-capita, and per-1000 people. Our rate are some of the lowest that one can hope for, even with how many people that we have over some of the other, smaller countries.

We'll always have crime, and we'll always have elements in our country that will misuse a firearm. But it's at this point, only a fraction of the deaths in our country.

Still worth being addressed and lowered even more, but it's nothing like it's being talked up to be.
 
Tlrmln said:
If you want it studied, you pay for it.
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We do, in taxes. The CDC was created in response to public demand that some agency be charged with studying health issues of Americans. The CC's mission is

"Detecting and responding to new and emerging health threats
Tackling the biggest health problems causing death and disability for Americans
Putting science and advanced technology into action to prevent disease
Promoting healthy and safe behaviors, communities and environment
Developing leaders and training the public health workforce, including disease detectives
Taking the health pulse of our nation"
(from CDC's mission statement)

When death from car accidents soared it became a public health issue and the CDC studied highway deaths. The recommendations that came out of those studies reduced highway deaths drastically. Gun deaths exceeded highway deaths in 2018. It seems rational that gun related deaths should be studied.
 
Oborosen said:
While our rates are declining by the year, it's not sad at all.
With what people say about our country, linked with how many weapons that are actually in the country at any given time. You'd think we were a country of lawless murders, but that is rather far from the truth.

We have many law abiding citizen, who of which when you comprise legal gun owners. Have a crime rate that can challenge those of law enforcement agencies.

Per-capita, and per-1000 people. Our rate are some of the lowest that one can hope for, even with how many people that we have over some of the other, smaller countries.

We'll always have crime, and we'll always have elements in our country that will misuse a firearm. But it's at this point, only a fraction of the deaths in our country.

Still worth being addressed and lowered even more, but it's nothing like it's being talked up to be.
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Per capita we dont come close to other first world countries. Its laughable what we are compared to.


We are supposed to be the leaders of the first world.


Not a country where moms shop for bulletproof backpacks for their kids
 
weaver2 said:
We do, in taxes.
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No, you don't. Remember, the law supposedly (not actually) forbids the CDC from researching gun violence.

The CDC was created in response to public demand that some agency be charged with studying health issues of Americans. The CC's mission is

"Detecting and responding to new and emerging health threats
Tackling the biggest health problems causing death and disability for Americans
Putting science and advanced technology into action to prevent disease
Promoting healthy and safe behaviors, communities and environment
Developing leaders and training the public health workforce, including disease detectives
Taking the health pulse of our nation"
(from CDC's mission statement)
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Most people, in common parlance, wouldn't consider murder a "health problem" or a disease. It's a crime.

When death from car accidents soared it became a public health issue and the CDC studied highway deaths. The recommendations that came out of those studies reduced highway deaths drastically. Gun deaths exceeded highway deaths in 2018. It seems rational that gun related deaths should be studied.
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Not really. Since the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control was formed within the CDC, the vehicular death rate in this country has only fallen by about 30%, and there's no evidence that has anything to do with the CDC.

But that's all beside the point. Gun violence research doesn't all need to be funded by the federal government. There are 50 state governments that can fund it if they want, and 320 million individuals who can donate money to universities to do it.
 
You appear to mean people that believe in the constitution of the United States, the Bill of Rights and fundamental natural law delegated to God and not men(humans for those of you with a hyper offense switch).

Absolutely. It is critical that we get back educating our new generations about many things currently forgotten and dispel the false progressive narcissistic narrative that enables modern-day indoctrinates to deprive others of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness so callouslly.

This goes hand in hand with Gods commandments as well.

Thou shall not murder.

 
Tlrmln said:
No, you don't. Remember, the law supposedly (not actually) forbids the CDC from researching gun violence.
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Only because the NRA lobbied Congress and defunded any research that had to do with firearms.



Most people, in common parlance, wouldn't consider murder a "health problem" or a disease. It's a crime.
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Anything that isn't a natural death from old age is a health issue, especially to the person involved. The CDC is charged to study all issues that relate to the health of Americans.

Not really. Since the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control was formed within the CDC, the vehicular death rate in this country has only fallen by about 30%, and there's no evidence that has anything to do with the CDC.
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The reduction of the rate of death attributable to motor-vehicle crashes in the United States represents the successful public health response to a great technologic advance of the 20th century--the motorization of America. Six times as many people drive today as in 1925, and the number of motor vehicles in the country has increased 11-fold since then to approximately 215 million (1). The number of miles traveled in motor vehicles is 10 times higher than in the mid-1920s. Despite this steep increase in motor-vehicle travel, the annual death rate has declined from 18 per 100 million vehicle miles traveled (VMT) in 1925 to 1.7 per 100 million VMT in 1997--a 90% decrease. (from the weekly CDC magazine Achievements in Public Health, 1900-1999 Motor-Vehicle Safety: A 20th Century Public Health Achievement)

Gun violence research doesn't all need to be funded by the federal government. There are 50 state governments that can fund it if they want, and 320 million individuals who can donate money to universities to do it.
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The CDC is charged with researching the health trends of Americans. Unnatural deaths are health issues. The NRA says people are safer with with guns. They should welcome studies proving that. But intensive lobbying of specific subject matter is never a good sign.

Turn the situation around. If the ACLU started intensive lobbying to prevent investigation into the finances of the DNC but not the RNC it would be fair to conclude that the ACLU was biased.

State by state research on national issues doesn't result in a coherent conclusion.
 
Tlrmln said:
If you want it studied, you pay for it. Start a foundation. If everyone who voted for Clinton in 2016 contributed an average of $15/month, they could raise more than the CDC's entire annual budget. You could start an entire industry with the sole purpose of proving to us how bad guns really are. You wouldn't even have to be objective. Of course, you could probably save far more lives by spending that money on something useful, but that's the beauty of it -- it would be your choice!

What's more important to you, your Netflix subscription or the lives of innocent children?
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Get that foundation going for your wall
 
weaver2 said:
The CDC was created in response to public demand that some agency be charged with studying health issues of Americans.
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No it wasn't. It was created to fight malaria in the US by spraying DDT all over the place.
 
Tlrmln said:
Yeah right, nobody said that, just like nobody wants to take any guns away from anyone.
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The extremes at both ends of the firearms issue should be taken for what they are people with unreasonable demands and unreasonable solutions.
There are people at the extreme of the gun regulation issue that believe nobody but public safety officials and military should have guns and that the government should confiscate the guns owned by the public.

AND....

There are people at the other extreme of gun regulation that believe the 2nd Amendment gives them the right to own, stockpile, use and carry any firearm ever invented in any place they choose.

Neither of these extremes have anything helpful to offer in a debate about any gun issue. Unfortunately both sides listen only to the very noisy and irrational extremes of the other side and use that as an excuse to ignore the voices in the middle from both sides.
 
aociswundumho said:
No it wasn't. It was created to fight malaria in the US by spraying DDT all over the place.
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You are right it was created in response to public demand that something be done about malaria a major health issue of the day.
 
HumblePi said:
Who said that someone doesn't want citizens to own firearms. That's sort of abbreviating the real issue, isn't it? Nobody, and I mean NO BODY has ever said a single word about not wanting citizens to own firearms. Hell, don't you think WE OWN GUNS TOO? Christ you people are so weak-minded and malleable that it's a miracle you can function day to day.
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Josie said:
What a strange response. Don't you recall this thread and your own answer to the poll question let alone the others who agreed with you?

https://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/poll-16594-do-we-do-mass-shootings-us.html

View attachment 67263621

Now you say "Nobody, and I mean NO BODY has ever said a single word about not wanting citizens to own firearms"? Are you two different people or something?
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Hmmm.... no response? Perhaps you can explain how your brain can have two completely different viewpoints about the subject of gun control.
 
TurtleDude said:
do you call on the NAACP to do something about the fact that more than half the murders in the USA are caused by blacks? Do you damn the ACLU for kiddie porn or Gay rights groups for AIDS.

So your idiotic attempt to blame the NRA is nothing more than typical leftwing political nonsense
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Your analogy is nonsensical at the NAACP has never done anything to overtly impede progress within the black community. They may have enacted bad policy, but unlike the NRA, their "heart" for the community has always been right.

You seem to offer more emotional / less rational responses when you have no defense. Sorry to have hit so close to the target.

Tlrmln said:
If you want it studied, you pay for it. Start a foundation. If everyone who voted for Clinton in 2016 contributed an average of $15/month, they could raise more than the CDC's entire annual budget. You could start an entire industry with the sole purpose of proving to us how bad guns really are. You wouldn't even have to be objective. Of course, you could probably save far more lives by spending that money on something useful, but that's the beauty of it -- it would be your choice!

What's more important to you, your Netflix subscription or the lives of innocent children?
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This whole post is nonsensical as it is completely non-responsive to my original point, offering what amounts to a childish rebuttal. Try again in 10 years and offer me an adult response.

For the record, you could save a lot of lives by further restricting access to powerful guns that are able to discharge lots of rounds without reloading. The crux of the mass shooting problem is the ability to kill lots of people in a very short amount of time. Many mass shootings end when the perpetrator is forced to reload. Make him reload more often, the kill number goes down.... mass shootings where only 2 or 3 are killed are not as attractive to the shooter as when 10 or 20 are killed. Most of the carnage in this shootings happens very fast before people have any ability to react. Cut down on casualties in the initial assault and we make these things far less attractive to pull off in the first place. A good study would well document that.

Some food for thought:

Psychiatry Online
Mass Shooting Delusions – Reason.com
Inside a killer’s mind: Las Vegas shooter 'wanted ultimate drug thrill kill' - Daily Star

Meanwhile, I continue to hold NRA members partially responsible for the actions of the NRA in standing in the way of ANY action on the subject of gun reform including, but not limited to, their sabotaging a legitimate effort by the government to actually understand the issue. They are afraid of the truth because the truth will NOT set them free.
 
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Josie said:
Hmmm.... no response? Perhaps you can explain how your brain can have two completely different viewpoints about the subject of gun control.
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almosteveryone.jpg
 
swing_voter said:
We have a problem with mass shootings, that much we all can agree on.

We can mitigate the problem though legislation. Treat guns just like you treat cars, you need a license to operate a gun and the gun is registered.

Nobody takes you guns away, you just have to do some paperwork every now and then.

Do pro gun people have some responsibility to fix the mass shooting problem?
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No, pro-gun people do not have a responsibility to fix the mass shooting problem. However if they are interested in intelligent legislation they need to be part of the discussion. If they aren't, people that have no interest in their concerns will be making the decisions.


It's just one of those universal truths: if you want input then you have to be sitting at the table when decisions are being made.
 
swing_voter said:
We have a problem with mass shootings, that much we all can agree on.

We can mitigate the problem though legislation. Treat guns just like you treat cars, you need a license to operate a gun and the gun is registered.

Nobody takes you guns away, you just have to do some paperwork every now and then.

Do pro gun people have some responsibility to fix the mass shooting problem?
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We don't have a problem with mass shootings... the shooter has the problem.
 
Fledermaus said:
What requirements for registration are there for operating a car on your property?
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Cars were not invented to kill other people nor is their sole intended purpose to kill... so... a really bad analogy.

Really bad...

Stinky bad...

Bad.
 
Bodhisattva said:
We don't have a problem with mass shootings... the shooter has the problem.
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Yes the shooter has a problem and so does the NRA and its members. If you refuse to admit there is a problem and won't work on intelligent solutions, then others will make the decisions and you won't like them. Take part in the discussion if you want to be heard.
 
The person responsible is the one who pulls the trigger.
 
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