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What is your general opinion on laws restricting abortion?

What is your opinion on laws restricting abortion?

  • They are essential to preserving the sanctity of life

    Votes: 15 17.4%

  • I don't agree with abortion but I don't think it should be banned

    Votes: 18 20.9%

  • they miss the real argument, that people should have total bodily autonomy over themselves

    Votes: 18 20.9%

  • they are a bad faith attempt at controlling women

    Votes: 32 37.2%

  • not sure

    Votes: 3 3.5%
  • Total voters
    86
Individual said:
Pre birth, there should be NO government restrictions at all!
Post birth, after close examination, very limited government restrictions should exist.

Note: I didn't cast a poll vote as I found no suitable choice available. Perhaps "other" instead of "not sure" should have been available.
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Are you serious or looking for reactions? Is there a part of you that is ok with killing a child after birth. God was right people today think whats wrong is right. I hope you find your soul before its to late. Your not right upstairs get help.

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Tryingtogetit said:
I believe it is murder so I have to thoughts. My first is with every abortion the mom gets a free grave right next to her childs. Burial services free. I know this will never fly so I have thought long and hard. I thing i found a solution that would lower abotion of children and allow the mom to live. Lol
I do believe that of we are going to allow mothers to kill there children then they should loose the right to become pregnant and get there tubes tied irreversibly. Yes a child is murdered, howevet she wont be qble to kill again.

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What makes you think that an unwanted pregnancy is the fault of the women? Pregnancy involves 2 people. If you are going to sterilize the woman for having an unwanted pregnancy then sterilize the male who impregnated the woman.
 
Lursa said:
Oh well...pro-lifers say that pregnant women need to be responsible for the consequences of their actions.

Generally they are referring to having a baby as a consequence...punishment. Nice! /sarcasm.

Let's just continually accuse pro-choice people of 'dehumanizing' the unborn and then use a baby as a bludgeon to try and force women to behave according to their own personal beliefs. That's not hypocritical at all :roll:

Seems to me that the small % of women that have *long-term* regret over their decisions are just paying their consequences...so pro-lifers should just drop their bull**** concern over these women's mental welfare as an argument. It fools no one.
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Some people like to club baby seals too. They always find a reason to condone it.
 
Tryingtogetit said:
Are you serious or looking for reactions? Is there a part of you that is ok with killing a child after birth. God was right people today think whats wrong is right. I hope you find your soul before its to late. Your not right upstairs get help.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk
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I'm quite serious. I have no control over how others react. I'm also quite okay with the choice continuing post birth in some cases. Are you claiming to have heard God speak about people today? What you call a soul exists only while you're alive, but you're free to believe as you wish. Perhaps you are the one not right upstairs, and in need of help.
 
Can someone clarify the definition of pro birth. I thought it meant after a baby is born. But i know i can not be right as there are to many people supporting it. Maybe paople are not as evil and insane as i thought. Plus I have never heard of such a thing before. I pray its me.

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Lursa said:
Oh well...pro-lifers say that pregnant women need to be responsible for the consequences of their actions.

Generally they are referring to having a baby as a consequence...punishment. Nice! /sarcasm.

Let's just continually accuse pro-choice people of 'dehumanizing' the unborn and then use a baby as a bludgeon to try and force women to behave according to their own personal beliefs. That's not hypocritical at all :roll:

Seems to me that the small % of women that have *long-term* regret over their decisions are just paying their consequences...so pro-lifers should just drop their bull**** concern over these women's mental welfare as an argument. It fools no one.
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Why not, prochoicers do it to men. You all apply the same logic to fathers that dont want to be fathers. When that issue is raised you resort to making the moral argument that its about the childs well being. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Abortion is bad for the childs welfare and parents have a moral obligation to take care of their children, right?

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If the man agrees with the abortion absolutly. Look just becuase a child can cause inconvenience thats no reason for murder. Rape in my opinion is not reason, if you dont want the baby adoption is the answer. There is no reason i think it is ok to kill a child. I would even risk dieing in birth if it meant my child would live. When did this country start being so into what we want every one else be damned.in my grandparents day i bed abortion was not even heard of. Why today are people only saying I, I,I like no one else matters.

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Jeff Epstein didn't commit suicide
 
BahamaBob said:
Some people like to club baby seals too. They always find a reason to condone it.
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I dont see you capable of any counter-argument here. You have none?

If you think the diminishing and disrespect of women to 2nd class citizens again is 'ok' that's certainly no moral High Ground...I dont 'condone' that...it's sad that you do.
 
trouble13 said:
Why not, prochoicers do it to men. You all apply the same logic to fathers that dont want to be fathers. When that issue is raised you resort to making the moral argument that its about the childs well being. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Abortion is bad for the childs welfare and parents have a moral obligation to take care of their children, right?

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Only once there is a child...and then the laws apply equally to both genders. If there is a child, both are held accountable for its, at minimum, financial support. Seems perfectly fair to me.

And since abortion removes that "consequence" for men, and it's in men's best interests to support legal abortion (based on your specific argument here)....it's really odd that you attempt this angle of discussion.
 
Lursa said:
Only once there is a child...and then the laws apply equally to both genders. If there is a child, both are held accountable for its, at minimum, financial support. Seems perfectly fair to me.

And since abortion removes that "consequence" for men, and it's in men's best interests to support legal abortion (based on your specific argument here)....it's really odd that you attempt this angle of discussion.
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I dont think abortion is in mens best interests. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. Its certainly not in best interests of men who want to have children.

Let me ask you a question about womens best interests. Do you think its in womens best interests to promote an environment so toxic to men that they are disengaging from committed relationships with women and not living up to their earning potential? Is this the pool women desire to look for suitable partners from?

You can rationalize the inequities in the relationship that exist for men but you cant force them to participate in them. Men are withdrawing and until the issue is actually addressed fairly its going to continue. Men keeping to themselves does not just hurt men. It hurts everyone.

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trouble13 said:
I dont think abortion is in mens best interests. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. Its certainly not in best interests of men who want to have children.

Let me ask you a question about womens best interests. Do you think its in womens best interests to promote an environment so toxic to men that they are disengaging from committed relationships with women and not living up to their earning potential? Is this the pool women desire to look for suitable partners from?

You can rationalize the inequities in the relationship that exist for men but you cant force them to participate in them. Men are withdrawing and until the issue is actually addressed fairly its going to continue. Men keeping to themselves does not just hurt men. It hurts everyone.

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Oh please, start another topic.

If men are like that, women are better off without them.
 
Lursa said:
I dont see you capable of any counter-argument here. You have none?

If you think the diminishing and disrespect of women to 2nd class citizens again is 'ok' that's certainly no moral High Ground...I dont 'condone' that...it's sad that you do.
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So you have no argument. The stale old argument that women need to kill to be 1st class citizens holds no water. Morality has nothing to do with sex. Half the babies aborted are women. You claiming moral High Ground is a real laugher. How does killing defenseless babies give you the moral High Ground? I guess in your book the clown with 2,000 aborted fetuses in his basement was a Saint and champion for women.
 
Masterhawk said:
I know I'm a bit late on this one but there is a wave of states passing laws against abortion such as the heartbeat bill.
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You will note that the politicians who want to pass this kind of law strongly tend to be older white men with twisted "Christian" beliefs that they cherry pick in an attempt to give religious credence to their agenda.
 
I read that it costs $233,610 for a middle income family to raise a child today, excluding the cost of college.

Perhaps government should be promoting abortions, or imposing a tax upon those of us, the man and the woman, who bring forth a child.

A 50%, or even much more, reduction of the worlds population would not harm us at all.
 
BahamaBob said:
So you have no argument. The stale old argument that women need to kill to be 1st class citizens holds no water. Morality has nothing to do with sex. Half the babies aborted are women. You claiming moral High Ground is a real laugher. How does killing defenseless babies give you the moral High Ground? I guess in your book the clown with 2,000 aborted fetuses in his basement was a Saint and champion for women.
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LOLOLOL

So you wrote basically, "na huh"...but no valid arguments to refute mine?

No surprise there. I'm glad you are in touch with your 'feelings.' Doesnt make an argument.
 
Individual said:
I read that it costs $233,610 for a middle income family to raise a child today, excluding the cost of college.

Perhaps government should be promoting abortions, or imposing a tax upon those of us, the man and the woman, who bring forth a child.

A 50%, or even much more, reduction of the worlds population would not harm us at all.
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You have to keep in mind that the developed world is seeing its population age. If you reduce the number of kids, you will cut the cost of education but you will increase the cost of social security tomorrow.
 
As a libertarian-leaning individual, I oppose any and all forms of abortion control. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt when they argue against pro-choice as a stance that they genuinely care and want to fight for what they believe in, but there are plenty of people in power who are simply control freaks and need to be opposed at every turn, whether it be about trying to control women's bodies, trying to control guns, etc. The gov't should not be wielded as a battering ram against your political opponents. Its ****ed up and wrong.
 
Masterhawk said:
You have to keep in mind that the developed world is seeing its population age. If you reduce the number of kids, you will cut the cost of education but you will increase the cost of social security tomorrow.
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And many third world countries where life expectancy is lowest are producing some of the greatest population growth.
I don't know that reducing the number of kids would have the effect of reducing the cost of education, but ut would reduce the class size, and perhaps allow teachers to concentrate more efforts where the need is found greatest.
I don't see why or how fewer kids would raise the "cost" of social security, but if the number of employable persons were to become less than the number of jobs available by employers, perhaps wages would increase as a result. AND, if jobs exceeded the workforce available, unemployment and social safety net programs would diminish greatly.
 
Individual said:
And many third world countries where life expectancy is lowest are producing some of the greatest population growth.
I don't know that reducing the number of kids would have the effect of reducing the cost of education, but ut would reduce the class size, and perhaps allow teachers to concentrate more efforts where the need is found greatest.
I don't see why or how fewer kids would raise the "cost" of social security, but if the number of employable persons were to become less than the number of jobs available by employers, perhaps wages would increase as a result. AND, if jobs exceeded the workforce available, unemployment and social safety net programs would diminish greatly.
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Why not just kill all the dumb kids?
 
Individual said:
And many third world countries where life expectancy is lowest are producing some of the greatest population growth.
I don't know that reducing the number of kids would have the effect of reducing the cost of education, but ut would reduce the class size, and perhaps allow teachers to concentrate more efforts where the need is found greatest.
I don't see why or how fewer kids would raise the "cost" of social security, but if the number of employable persons were to become less than the number of jobs available by employers, perhaps wages would increase as a result. AND, if jobs exceeded the workforce available, unemployment and social safety net programs would diminish greatly.
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For less developed countries where the birthrate is high, reducing the fertility rate may cut education costs. For developed countries where the fertility rate is already below 2 per woman, reducing it even further would eventually increase the percentage of people who are senior citizens, increasing the cost of social security.
 
Masterhawk said:
For less developed countries where the birthrate is high, reducing the fertility rate may cut education costs. For developed countries where the fertility rate is already below 2 per woman, reducing it even further would eventually increase the percentage of people who are senior citizens, increasing the cost of social security.
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We can always allow in more immigrants. There are always people who want to come here and work and gain citizenship. It worked in the past.
 
Masterhawk said:
For less developed countries where the birthrate is high, reducing the fertility rate may cut education costs. For developed countries where the fertility rate is already below 2 per woman, reducing it even further would eventually increase the percentage of people who are senior citizens, increasing the cost of social security.
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It would peak, and then begin to diminish. Inflation increases the cost of Social Security, population growth and increased life expectancy increases the total spending.
 
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