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Should flag burning be protected speech

Should flag burning be protected speech

  • Total voters
    73
Bullseye said:
I voted no. Since the flag is the symbol of our country and our country's constitution is the entity that guarantees free speech it would seem that burning the flag is symbolically destroying free speech. IF one feels the country needs changing then the tools and procedures to affect those changers are guaranteed by the constitution which is the framework of our freedom.
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No. It is an expression of opposition to something American. And that expression is precisely what the second amendment was designed to protect. A national flag is the epitome of a political symbol. It represents a nation-state , its governmental institutions, and the geographical region defined by borders established and defended by a political body as well as a set of cultural associations reflected in our society. If you are burning the American flag, or the confederate flag, or the gay pride flag, or your state flag, or the Mexican flag, you are definitely expressing something with political overtones. Its probably not up to you or me to say exactly what. We will have to ask those who want to burn it in public, what it is intended to symbolize for them while they burn it. If they say that the property that they own now symbolizes the militarism of our government, or the Trump administration, or a Corporate oligarchy, then that is what is symbolizes to them when they burn their own piece of cloth. The fact that it is our national symbol just means it is more provocative to us.

Whoever purchased or owns it, gets to decide what it means when they destroy it.
 
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SheWolf said:
This seems like a relevant question, because of all the free speech debates.

It's a simple yes or no question.
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What kind of retard would make burning cloth a crime? Good grief.
 
Bullseye said:
I voted no. Since the flag is the symbol of our country and our country's constitution is the entity that guarantees free speech it would seem that burning the flag is symbolically destroying free speech. IF one feels the country needs changing then the tools and procedures to affect those changers are guaranteed by the constitution which is the framework of our freedom.
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This is some wild logic.
 
btthegreat said:
No. It is an expression of opposition to something American. And that expression is precisely what the second amendment was designed to protect. A flag is the epitome of a political symbol. It represents a nation-state and its governmental institutions and the geographical region defined by borders established and defended by a political body. . If you are burning the American flag, or the confederate flag, or the gay pride flag, or your state flag, or the Mexican flag, you are definitely expressing something political. Its probably not up to you to say exactly what. You will have to ask those who want to burn it in public. The fact that it is our national symbol just means it is more provocative to us.
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Ok, you're entitled to an opinion.
 
SheWolf said:
This seems like a relevant question, because of all the free speech debates.

It's a simple yes or no question.
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Yes, as long as it's your flag that own. Free speech doesn't allow for you to take someone else's flag to burn.

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SheWolf said:
This seems like a relevant question, because of all the free speech debates.

It's a simple yes or no question.
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what makes the country that the flag represents strong is that people can burn it without being punished.
 
After having reviewed the other responses, I will put this out.

The flag represents something, as does a Bible or Koran. It is a visible symbol for ideas and ideals. The moment that one places more value upon the physical representation, than what it represents, they have betrayed those ideals.

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Bullseye said:
I voted no. Since the flag is the symbol of our country and our country's constitution is the entity that guarantees free speech it would seem that burning the flag is symbolically destroying free speech. IF one feels the country needs changing then the tools and procedures to affect those changers are guaranteed by the constitution which is the framework of our freedom.
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What good is a symbol for free speech if you cant exercise free speech.
 
The question is disingenuous. It's not yes or no. Depends. I oppose willy nilly flag burning. If one does wish to burn a flag, all local codes, permits and ordinances should apply. Here I can't even burn trash. Twice a year I may get a permit for burning leafs. No one is allowed to burn anything on public property. But if someone were to follow all the burning laws I have to contend with, and can get a permit to burn on public property, and still wish to burn a flag, which BTW puts CO2 into the air, then I say go for it. And if they don't follow all those rules, then they should be arrested and fined like any other joe smo would be for setting a fire on public property.

Free speech does not mean you are above the law.
 
btthegreat said:
No. It is an expression of opposition to something American. And that expression is precisely what the second amendment was designed to protect. A national flag is the epitome of a political symbol. It represents a nation-state , its governmental institutions, and the geographical region defined by borders established and defended by a political body as well as a set of cultural associations reflected in our society. If you are burning the American flag, or the confederate flag, or the gay pride flag, or your state flag, or the Mexican flag, you are definitely expressing something with political overtones. Its probably not up to you or me to say exactly what. We will have to ask those who want to burn it in public, what it is intended to symbolize for them while they burn it. If they say that the property that they own now symbolizes the militarism of our government, or the Trump administration, or a Corporate oligarchy, then that is what is symbolizes to them when they burn their own piece of cloth. The fact that it is our national symbol just means it is more provocative to us.
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I think it's a higher level. First off the national flag isn't equivalent of the gay flag or a confederate flag. I think it's higher than a political symbol; it's THE symbol of every thing - good or bad - that makes us a country, that should bind us all together as Americans, including all our differences, disagreements and cross-purposes.
btthgreat said:
Whoever purchased or owns it, gets to decide what it means when they destroy it.
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Well, no, not actually. There are prescribed methods on handling a soiled or damaged flag. Burning and stomping it into the ground are not part of it.
 
Bullseye said:
I think it's a higher level. First off the national flag isn't equivalent of the gay flag or a confederate flag. I think it's higher than a political symbol; it's THE symbol of every thing - good or bad - that makes us a country, that should bind us all together as Americans, including all our differences, disagreements and cross-purposes.
Well, no, not actually. There are prescribed methods on handling a soiled or damaged flag. Burning and stomping it into the ground are not part of it.
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The prescribed methods to which you refer do not have the force of law. Read the language in them you will find no federal enforceable 'musts' or 'requireds that refer to what a private party may do with their flag, just a bunch of 'shoulds' and 'oughts'. . They reflect mere suggestions that reflect the political correctness of a prior era. If they are a symbol of both good and bad, then anyone can feel free to express their displease at the 'bad' as they see it, by burning their own flag or someone else's, who offers them permission.

Stop being the pc police here.

Flags are private property no different than a pair of underwear, according to federal law.
 
btthegreat said:
The prescribed methods to which you refer do not have the force of law. Read the language in them you will find no federal enforceable 'musts' or 'requireds that refer to what a private party may do with their flag, just a bunch of 'shoulds' and 'oughts'. . They reflect mere suggestions that reflect the political correctness of a prior era. If they are a symbol of both good and bad, then anyone can feel free to express their displease at the 'bad' as they see it, by burning their own flag or someone else's, who offers them permission.

Stop being the pc police here.

Flags are private property no different than a pair of underwear, according to federal law.
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Not being the "PC police". I understand those protocols don't have the force of law - they shouldn't need to. And once again, this ISN'T a political issue - it's should be an AMERICAN issue. IF we can't have some common basis, we're screwed. If we can argue under the freedoms guaranteed by that flag, rather than destroying it, we're screwed.
 
Bullseye said:
Not being the "PC police". I understand those protocols don't have the force of law - they shouldn't need to. And once again, this ISN'T a political issue - it's should be an AMERICAN issue. IF we can't have some common basis, we're screwed. If we can argue under the freedoms guaranteed by that flag, rather than destroying it, we're screwed.
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You are being the pc police, trying to dictate what people decide to do with their own property, so you or others are not offended by seeing or hearing it. The only American issue here, is that you want to ban this particular act of protest and expression of same, because you do not like what it says about American lack of unity. There is nothing on which we should be more unified, than that a man can do what he likes with his own property, especially if it involves an expression of disunity or offense. That is what we celebrate when we celebrate free speech.
 
Bullseye said:
I'm sure it is to you.
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Most certainly as I am one of logic.

It was actually ridiculously twisted to reason as such. It did not take someone of my intellect to see the ignorance soaked in that post.
 
Bullseye said:
If we can argue under the freedoms guaranteed by that flag, rather than destroying it, we're screwed.
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Conceptual error. The flag is not what guarantees the freedoms, the Constitution does. The flag is only a symbol. As I have noted, when one values the symbol more that what the symbol stands for, they have already denied what the symbol stands for.

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btthegreat said:
... than that a man can do what he likes with his own property, especially if it involves an expression of disunity or offense.
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While you made it implicit, it really does need to be explicit.

...a man can do what he likes with his own property, save where it can cause harm to another, especially if it...

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Isn't this settled law already?

SheWolf said:
This seems like a relevant question, because of all the free speech debates.

It's a simple yes or no question.
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This was settled some time ago. & the Supreme Court's decision isn't much affected by polls. See Requested Page Not Found | United States Courts

"Facts and Case Summary - Texas v. Johnson

"Facts and case summary for Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989). Flag burning constitutes symbolic speech that is protected by the First Amendment."

(My emphasis - more @ the URL)
 
maquiscat said:
Conceptual error. The flag is not what guarantees the freedoms, the Constitution does. The flag is only a symbol. As I have noted, when one values the symbol more that what the symbol stands for, they have already denied what the symbol stands for.

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Sorry for the confusion, I didn't say the FLAG GUARANTEED anything - it's the SYMBOL of the system that does. This isn't an issue of "valuing the symbol more than what it stands for" - that's a silly word game. Attacking the symbol IS attacking the system, that's the point of it being the symbol.

Look, we have many exemption to the right of free space - the classic "crying fire in a crowded theater", libel, slander, advocating the violent overthrow of government, inciting violence, threatening the President, etc. I just happen to think burning the flag should be included in that category.

The Vietnam era "in order to save the village we had to destroy it" was BS then, so is burning the flag to exercise the rights of the nation it symbolizes.


You're entitled to an opinion, and I support your right to express it; please extend that curtesy to those that believe as I do.
 
noonereal said:
Most certainly as I am one of logic.

It was actually ridiculously twisted to reason as such. It did not take someone of my intellect to see the ignorance soaked in that post.
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LOL, don't think much of yourself do you? :roll: I have a feeling we could close the national debt if we could buy that logic and intelligence for what it's actual worth and sell it for what YOU THINK it's worth. :cool:

As I've said to others you have a right to your opinion; so do I.
 
Bullseye said:
LOL, don't think much of yourself do you? :roll: I have a feeling we could close the national debt if we could buy that logic and intelligence for what it's actual worth and sell it for what YOU THINK it's worth. :cool:

As I've said to others you have a right to your opinion; so do I.
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I have found that opinion is often used in defense of ignorance.

I would caution you that opinion is acceptable in the absence of fact, not in conflict with it. You may quote me.
 
btthegreat said:
You are being the pc police, trying to dictate what people decide to do with their own property, so you or others are not offended by seeing or hearing it. The only American issue here, is that you want to ban this particular act of protest and expression of same, because you do not like what it says about American lack of unity. There is nothing on which we should be more unified, than that a man can do what he likes with his own property, especially if it involves an expression of disunity or offense. That is what we celebrate when we celebrate free speech.
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I'm sure you realize that the right to do "what you want" with your property is not absolute, nor are any other rights; each has limitatios and restrictions to them. Even our vaunted freedom of speech has many restrictions on it.
 
I never liked the term "THE" Flag. THE Flag is in the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History in Washington, D.C. A flag is hung out in the rain..spit upon and sometimes burned.

Don't care what any person does to a flag. Probably because most people I've known who get all teary-eyed about A flag usually vote for the worse people who have no idea what it stands for.
When we have politicians that actually care about the common man/women..I'll reassess my feelings.
 
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