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Is Serena Classless?

Is Serena Classless

  • Total voters
    40
coco said:
It is the most ugly tennis player i have ever seen. I cant wait for it 2 disappear.
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Even uglier is the dehumanization of another person by using "it."
 
BahamaBob said:
I understand you are a big Tennis fan. However, I am not. Any sport where a 15 year old can rule is not that impressive. Truly great athletes don't peak before they enter High School.
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Lets see-how old was Sarah Hughes or Tara Lipinski when they won the crown jewel in the Winter Olympics? Eric Boggan-won the US Open in Table Tennis-beating world several world top 25 players when he was 14. At just 16, the GOAT of Table Tennis (which is one of the 2-3 most competitive sports in the world in terms of number of serious athletes) Jan Ove Waldner, was European adult men's singles silver medalist-beating several World champions on his way to the finals. Bob Shuley was the world Skeet Champion at age 12-the start of a Hall of Fame career. Denise Parker was 13 when she part of the bronze medal team at the 88 Olympics in archery. Kim Run Mi won Olympic gold in speed skating at age 13, as was swimming legend Donna De Varonna when she won gold in the 1960 Olympics. Numerous women's gymnastics world and Olympic medalists were no older than Coco Gauff.
 
TurtleDude said:
Nah wouldn't work against Serena. Same reason why you don't see men use that strategy. Now Roger and a few others will come to net when they hit a really good serve or force the opponent really deep. The modern strings with these much bigger stronger women make passing shots so much easier
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A women's serve and vollyer beat the number 4 woman seed yesterday.
 
TurtleDude said:
Lets see-how old was Sarah Hughes or Tara Lipinski when they won the crown jewel in the Winter Olympics? Eric Boggan-won the US Open in Table Tennis-beating world several world top 25 players when he was 14. At just 16, the GOAT of Table Tennis (which is one of the 2-3 most competitive sports in the world in terms of number of serious athletes) Jan Ove Waldner, was European adult men's singles silver medalist-beating several World champions on his way to the finals. Bob Shuley was the world Skeet Champion at age 12-the start of a Hall of Fame career. Denise Parker was 13 when she part of the bronze medal team at the 88 Olympics in archery. Kim Run Mi won Olympic gold in speed skating at age 13, as was swimming legend Donna De Varonna when she won gold in the 1960 Olympics. Numerous women's gymnastics world and Olympic medalists were no older than Coco Gauff.
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Now you are getting desperate. You consider table tennis a sport outside China? You prove my point. In some sports, children can compete on natural ability because skill gained through training is not necessary. But that is one reason women's sports is not taken serious by many sports fans. You won't see a 15 year old ruling in Men's tennis. In fact, I remember a 55 year old Bobby Riggs beating the #1 ranked women's player handily. There is no way you can call a women's tennis player the world's best female athlete. My vote goes for
1. Joyner-Kersee
2. Carli Lloyd
3. Lindsey Vonn
4. Ronda Rousey
5. Kerri Walsh - Misty May
6. Simone Biles
7. Abby Wambach
8. Lisa Leslie
9. Serena Williams
10. Mia Hamm
 
bubbabgone said:
A women's serve and vollyer beat the number 4 woman seed yesterday.
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When was the last time a real serve and volley woman won a major? Taylor Townsend is an opportunistic serve and volleyer, meaning she will come in on a sort or weak ball. And she has to since her fitness level is one of the worst of pro women.
 
BahamaBob said:
Now you are getting desperate. You consider table tennis a sport outside China? You prove my point. In some sports, children can compete on natural ability because skill gained through training is not necessary. But that is one reason women's sports is not taken serious by many sports fans. You won't see a 15 year old ruling in Men's tennis. In fact, I remember a 55 year old Bobby Riggs beating the #1 ranked women's player handily. There is no way you can call a women's tennis player the world's best female athlete. My vote goes for
1. Joyner-Kersee
2. Carli Lloyd
3. Lindsey Vonn
4. Ronda Rousey
5. Kerri Walsh - Misty May
6. Simone Biles
7. Abby Wambach
8. Lisa Leslie
9. Serena Williams
10. Mia Hamm
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That's really stupid

Here are some of the world champions since I have been playing competitively.

Jonyer-Hungary
Kohno Japan
Ono Japan
Waldner (2X) Sweden
Persson Sweden
Gatien-France
Schlager Austria

Doubles

Hungary (2X)
Sweden (3X)
Yugoslavia (2X)
Germany
Taiwan

Do you think your MMA women would beat say a 55 year old former World champion boxer or wrestler? I suspect you don't really understand many different sports.
 
TurtleDude said:
When was the last time a real serve and volley woman won a major? Taylor Townsend is an opportunistic serve and volleyer, meaning she will come in on a sort or weak ball. And she has to since her fitness level is one of the worst of pro women.
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Women players don't generally serve and volley.
Martina was a relentless serve and volleyer.
 
bubbabgone said:
Women players don't generally serve and volley.
Martina was a relentless serve and volleyer.
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yeah, and her game worked well against wood rackets and smaller women. Don't think she'd do well against the big power hitters like Sabalenka, or Serena, etc
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah, and her game worked well against wood rackets and smaller women. Don't think she'd do well against the big power hitters like Sabalenka, or Serena, etc
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Pros haven't used wood rackets for many many years and Martina WAS herself a power hitter.
 
TurtleDude said:
That's really stupid

Here are some of the world champions since I have been playing competitively.

Jonyer-Hungary
Kohno Japan
Ono Japan
Waldner (2X) Sweden
Persson Sweden
Gatien-France
Schlager Austria

Doubles

Hungary (2X)
Sweden (3X)
Yugoslavia (2X)
Germany
Taiwan

Do you think your MMA women would beat say a 55 year old former World champion boxer or wrestler? I suspect you don't really understand many different sports.
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If he was in her same weight class, yes.

"Rousey is widely considered to be one of the greatest and most influential female athletes ever. She is the only woman to win a championship in both the UFC and WWE, as well as the only woman to headline a pay-per-view event in both companies.[24] Rousey was voted the best female athlete of all-time in a 2015 ESPN fan poll, and Fox Sports described her as "one of the defining athletes of the 21st century." Wikipedia. She also medaled in Judo in the 2008 Olympics.

You are the one who doesn't seem to understand different sports. You don't see 15 year olds playing on the Women's Olympic Soccer team. It takes strength, stamina, years of training, and skills that a 15 year old could not possess. The fact that a middle schooler can dominate the sport shows it is based on natural ability not athletic ability.
 
bubbabgone said:
Pros haven't used wood rackets for many many years and Martina WAS herself a power hitter.
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Not compared to the 6 foot plus women of today. Martina was great in her day. Modern players are bigger and stronger and hit harder. Plus there are many more countries producing world class players.
 
TurtleDude said:
Not compared to the 6 foot plus women of today. Martina was great in her day. Modern players are bigger and stronger and hit harder. Plus there are many more countries producing world class players.
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All true.
But that would mean Czechoslovakia would have produced a contemporary Martina Navratilova but still with skills those others may not have.
 
BahamaBob said:
If he was in her same weight class, yes.

"Rousey is widely considered to be one of the greatest and most influential female athletes ever. She is the only woman to win a championship in both the UFC and WWE, as well as the only woman to headline a pay-per-view event in both companies.[24] Rousey was voted the best female athlete of all-time in a 2015 ESPN fan poll, and Fox Sports described her as "one of the defining athletes of the 21st century." Wikipedia. She also medaled in Judo in the 2008 Olympics.

You are the one who doesn't seem to understand different sports. You don't see 15 year olds playing on the Women's Olympic Soccer team. It takes strength, stamina, years of training, and skills that a 15 year old could not possess. The fact that a middle schooler can dominate the sport shows it is based on natural ability not athletic ability.
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That's a joke and we both know it

she is in a low numbers sport. Few countries have MMA. Its not in the olympics. It isn't a college or HS varsity sport. There are more kids training at the big Florida tennis academies in tennis than there are serious women MM artists in the world. The best athletes in women's sports are playing tennis. It is where the most money is. An ESPN fan poll means nothing.

Didn't that MMA woman get her butt handed to her on prime time? Comparing her to Serena is a testament to not understanding how competitive professional tennis is and inflating what is essentially a minor league sport confined to a few countries.
 
bubbabgone said:
All true.
But that would mean Czechoslovakia would have produced a contemporary Martina Navratilova but still with skills those others may not have.
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Serena has won more majors than Martina. (5 more IIRC) The only thing Martina was unable to accumulate was Olympic Gold medals.
 
TurtleDude said:
Serena has won more majors than Martina. (5 more IIRC) The only thing Martina was unable to accumulate was Olympic Gold medals.
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I had to check. I assume you meant singles. That's correct. 23 vs 18.
Then again ... they never played each other so styles could make a difference.
Annnnnd that's where we started.
 
TurtleDude said:
That's a joke and we both know it

she is in a low numbers sport. Few countries have MMA. Its not in the olympics. It isn't a college or HS varsity sport. There are more kids training at the big Florida tennis academies in tennis than there are serious women MM artists in the world. The best athletes in women's sports are playing tennis. It is where the most money is. An ESPN fan poll means nothing.

Didn't that MMA woman get her butt handed to her on prime time? Comparing her to Serena is a testament to not understanding how competitive professional tennis is and inflating what is essentially a minor league sport confined to a few countries.
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One thing I know. Rousey won't get her butt handed to her by a 15 year old like Serena did.
 
BahamaBob said:
One thing I know. Rousey won't get her butt handed to her by a 15 year old like Serena did.
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Neither did Serena-you don't even know what you are talking about. The 15 year old beat an over the hill Hungarian player not ranked in the top 40 in the world. She did beat Venus a few weeks ago-a woman old enough to be her mother with all sorts of physical issues
 
bubbabgone said:
I had to check. I assume you meant singles. That's correct. 23 vs 18.
Then again ... they never played each other so styles could make a difference.
Annnnnd that's where we started.
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Find someone who played on the tour who ranks Martina ahead of Serena. You might. I cannot think of any and I watch tennis weekly, but I am sure someone will. But not many

BBL
 
TurtleDude said:
Find someone who played on the tour who ranks Martina ahead of Serena. You might. I cannot think of any and I watch tennis weekly, but I am sure someone will. But not many

BBL
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Don't get me wrong.
I like Serena and think she's incredible.
My point was about their conflicting styles and who might win.
Serena might win long groundstroke battles but Martina might not get into such battles.
And Serena would have a tough time breaking Martina often enough to compensate.
 
TurtleDude said:
Neither did Serena-you don't even know what you are talking about. The 15 year old beat an over the hill Hungarian player not ranked in the top 40 in the world. She did beat Venus a few weeks ago-a woman old enough to be her mother with all sorts of physical issues
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Sorry my mistake. It is probably because like most people I never watch tennis. Tennis is an old school dying sport with little draw. I noted the US Open only had about 10% of the number of viewers that the Women's World Cup pulled.
 
bubbabgone said:
I think Martina would have beaten her. Serve and volley. Don't see that so much anymore on cement or grass. Men or women.
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Interesting article in NYT today about evolution of game from serve and volley to huge hitting from the baseline. Rackets have changed, surfaces have changed. I can find a link if you are interested
 
JMR said:
Interesting article in NYT today about evolution of game from serve and volley to huge hitting from the baseline. Rackets have changed, surfaces have changed. I can find a link if you are interested
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happens in lots of sports In the 40s and 50s, table tennis bats were hard rubber. An all around game dominated because if the other player was top spinning, you normally had to use back spin. Then the sponge paddles came about the fifties and sixties and counter smashing was the state the art. Then the Europeans started heavy off the table massive side/top spin loop drives. On top of that in the 70s, Hungarian and Yugoslavian power spinners started using bicycle glue to attach the rubber sheets to their rackets, and that jacked up the spin to over 11,000 RPMS for some of the heavy loopers. Topspin vs topspin 5-6 feet from the table was the dominant style. Then the Chinese came out with "long pimpled rubber" and "anti top spin" slick rubber that creates a wiffle ball effect and gave defensive players some life and made playing too far back risky since the new rubber was adept at blocking the massive top spin drives back short.

Tennis is somewhat similar with the new strings and the rackets allowing massive top spin which makes net rushing a much tougher way to win since the baseline power spinners like Nadal can hit a ball 3-4 feet over the net with high speed, and because of the rotation, it will stay in play.
 
bubbabgone said:
Don't get me wrong.
I like Serena and think she's incredible.
My point was about their conflicting styles and who might win.
Serena might win long groundstroke battles but Martina might not get into such battles.
And Serena would have a tough time breaking Martina often enough to compensate.
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Chris Evert-Serena has the best return in the history of women's tennis

Martina-Serena has the best serve in the history of women's tennis

Jim Courier-if Serena doesn't have the best forehand in women's tennis history, it is at worst tied with Graf's
 
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