• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is Biden Running Out of Gas?

Is Biding Running Out of Gas?

  • Biden is Crispy Toast

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Nice and Brown

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • Barely singed

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Get the mayo. I want a sandwich

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • Zombie Apocalypse

    Votes: 9 42.9%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
I definitely think if Sanders were to win the primaries, he would pick Gabbard for VP. He would want a young female person of color on his ticket but also one that shares his non interventionist foreign policy. She really is the only one there that fits that description. Plus she has a strange appeal to the right and left leaning libertarians.

I think that's probable, unless Bernie and Warren have some pact worked out in this regard. Conservatives and libertarians definitely have an attraction to her despite her very progressive policies, which I assume is largely predicated on her being principled and willing to call out the Democrats over ethical missteps, a veteran and a non-interventionist.

Thats a bit risky though with both being from the coasts. Someone needs to be from the center of the country. I would think either a Biden/Castro or Biden/Klobuchar ticket would do better.

Biden/Klobuchar would be a Hillary/Kaine tier disaster.
 
I think that's probable, unless Bernie and Warren have some pact worked out in this regard. Conservatives and libertarians definitely have an attraction to her despite her very progressive policies, which I assume is largely predicated on her being principled and willing to call out the Democrats over ethical missteps, a veteran and a non-interventionist.



Biden/Klobuchar would be a Hillary/Kane tier disaster.

I think Sanders is probably the most secure in terms of his support. He has that solid 12-15% of support that doesnt seem to be going anywhere. We see Warren, Harris and the others moving around quite a bit. He doesnt. Just saw an article today that claims he is being hugely underestimated.

Polls suggest Sanders may be underestimated | TheHill
 
Personally I figured Biden would be a slam dunk to win the nomination. He had the moderate lane to victory all too himself.
But he's been exposed big time in the debates he was stunned in the spotlight & on the campaign trail he was more than dismal.
I remember Biden toying with Paul Pyan in the 2008 VP debate that was a brutal takedown but that was Biden over a decade ago.
Biden ain't what he used to be, his performance to date has been as bad as Mueller's was in the congressional hearing & that
was embarrassing.

I think he's done. his braintrust has taken him off the campaign trail he's been so gaff prone. I like Bernie to wind up as
the nominee, his policies are terrible for the country but he means what he says & does not pander like all the rest of this
weak field and that counts for something.

Yes all the Trumpists want Bernie and that is what is most troubling about him. Putin surely has a ton of dirt in the Soviet archives to throw at him. A Biden/Warren ticket would give Trump the trouncing he so richly deserves. Not to mention a return to normalcy that we all long for.
 
Last edited:
Yes all the Trumpists want Bernie and that is what is most troubling about him. Putin surely has a ton of dirt in the Soviet archives to throw at him. A Biden/Warren ticket would give Trump the trouncing he so richly deserves.

No way there would be a Biden/Warren ticket. Two in their 70s wouldnt work. Either would choose someone younger as their VP.
 
Yes all the Trumpists want Bernie and that is what is most troubling about him. Putin surely has a ton of dirt in the Soviet archives to throw at him. A Biden/Warren ticket would give Trump the trouncing he so richly deserves. Not to mention a return to normalcy that we all long for.

If anything they seem to be wanting Warren, and I get why: she seems unelectable per her demeanour and lack (but not active antithesis of as per Clinton) charisma, and unable to stand up to Trump in a head to head confrontation.

Generally I thought this to be the case myself despite being someone who very much likes Warren, but the more I've seen of her lately, the less I think this to be the case (and conversely the more I see of Biden, the less capable of winning I think he is).

She still freezes up regarding the Pocahontas thing though, and needs to come up with a proper response that people outside of the party will be satisfied by, because Trump would hammer her on it relentlessly.
 
And I doubt that he fills most of his days with “Executive Time”, the way TRump does.
Nah... Biden spends his time reminiscing about past events... Like when RFK and MLK were assasinated in the late 70's.

When his handlers do finally decide to "limit his exposure" - I wonder how that will affect his poll numbers.
 
Nah... Biden spends his time reminiscing about past events... Like when RFK and MLK were assasinated in the late 70's.

When his handlers do finally decide to "limit his exposure" - I wonder how that will affect his poll numbers.

Don't leave out the part where he was VP last year and the value of truth over facts. ;)
 
If anything they seem to be wanting Warren, and I get why: she seems unelectable per her demeanour and lack (but not active antithesis of as per Clinton) charisma, and unable to stand up to Trump in a head to head confrontation.

Generally I thought this to be the case myself despite being someone who very much likes Warren, but the more I've seen of her lately, the less I think this to be the case (and conversely the more I see of Biden, the less capable of winning I think he is).

She still freezes up regarding the Pocahontas thing though, and needs to come up with a proper response that people outside of the party will be satisfied by, because Trump would hammer her on it relentlessly.

Warren was also a republican up until the mid 90s so I think some see that folksy style with her. Also if anybody remembers she was a business guru on CNBC before she was a senator, She was very capitalistic then. She says she changed in the early 2000s.
 
Also I think taking the "vote for me to get rid of Trump as I am the only one that can beat him" argument is pretty weak from Biden. It might work with indies and those republicans who dont like Trump, but its short on policy. It will leave progressives a bit peeved I think especially when Biden and Trump debate and he stands down on Medicare for all and a $15 min wage because its 'socialist."
 
Trump in Dead Heats With Biden and Sanders, Half of Voters “Silently” Support Trump

Zogby Analytics/@247WallSt 8/9-12 and this Zogby is an Arab no friend of Trump

The right direction number is the highest we have tracked in years. It’s an important indicator of how people feel about the overall health of the economy and society. Both figures could explain how Trump has tightened up polling in head-to-head races with his 2020 Democratic rivals. As of just a few months ago, our polling had Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders beating Trump by double digits, while Warren, Harris and Buttigieg were in closer races with Trump.

Overall, Trump (46%) and Biden (45%) were statistically tied, while 9% of voters are not sure. Biden does well with voters under the age of 50, more specifically millennials age 18-29 — Biden wins 50% to 38%. Trump, on the other hand, wins with voters older than 50, more specifically, voters aged 65+ —Trump leads Biden 56% to 40%. There were no surprises when it came to gender. Biden wins with women (Biden leads 48% to 39%) and Trump wins with men (Trumps is ahead 53% to 42%).

Where Trump does his damage is he bests Biden with independents (Trump leads 44% to 36%), small-city voters (Trump leads 47% to 43%), suburban voters (Trump leads 45% to 44%) and both candidates are tied with large-city voters (Biden leads 46% to 45%). When it came to race, Biden wins with African Americans (Biden leads 74% to 21%), but both candidates do well with Hispanics (Biden leads 48% to 46%).

Trump 46% (+1)
Biden 45%
.
Trump 45% (+1)
Sanders 44%
.
Trump 44% (+2)
Harris 42%
.
Trump 45% (+2)
Warren 43%
.
Trump 45% (+3)
Buttigieg 42%

Hillary is hoping for a brokered convention so she can step in and "save" the party.

Zogby has the worst national poll in the country for at least the last 15 years.
 
If anything they seem to be wanting Warren, and I get why: she seems unelectable per her demeanour and lack (but not active antithesis of as per Clinton) charisma, and unable to stand up to Trump in a head to head confrontation.

Generally I thought this to be the case myself despite being someone who very much likes Warren, but the more I've seen of her lately, the less I think this to be the case (and conversely the more I see of Biden, the less capable of winning I think he is).

She still freezes up regarding the Pocahontas thing though, and needs to come up with a proper response that people outside of the party will be satisfied by, because Trump would hammer her on it relentlessly.

And Trump will hammer Bernie on socialism and his honeymoon in the USSR. We will be treated to endless clips of him frolicking with Communists and saying stupid things and what can he say? Bernie has far more baggage than Warren and at least Warren has accomplishments to tout. I also have not heard one Trumpist that wants Warren to face Trump. Where she is weak is supporting Bernie's Medicare for all. Threatening to throw 75% of Americans off their company policies is not a vote getter not to mention it is "pie in the sky" Sorry but Biden's policy of adding to the ACA is far more voter friendly and adding a public option is at least in the realm pf possibility.
 
Last edited:
Bernie Sanders has passed Biden in New Hampshire. That's no surprise since Bernie is from Vermont, but it's the first time Biden trailed in any serious poll, much less the first primary. The only August poll from Iowa shows Biden with a single digit lead. These two states dominate the news for a week before South Carolina. There Biden is up almost 20%.

Polling is thin, but these are very involved states and the results are much more predictive than national polls at this point. Is Biden's lead going to evaporate, or is he going to remain in front after the first couple weeks leading to Super Tuesday in March?

Gee. Don't we all get a warm glow when a Trump supporter speculates on Democrat candidates?

It just couldn't be a third-rate partisan hit job could it? Nah. Just mere coincidence. :lamo
 
Hypothetical head to head isn't much use this far out. Interesting no doubt. One can put those into the category if the election were held today. What I look at is the favorable/unfavorable views of independents vs the candidates. Especially the very favorable and very unfavorable. Not the somewhat's. The very favorable and very unfavorable are pretty much etched in stone, the somewhat's change constantly. Along with the very's, I keep track of the "It depends."

Biden at the moment among independents has a 10/27 very favorable/very unfavorable, minus 17. 28% are unsure or don't know. Trump 21/42 a minus 21. A very slight advantage to Biden which can improve a lot or go under water more with 28% don't know. Warren, whom you mentioned among independents 13/29 very favorable/very unfavorable with 36% don't know. A minus 16. With a margin of error of plus or minus three points, all three could be tied or Warren and Biden could have a good lead.

What this tells me is at this point in time, independents don't really care much for the choices of Trump vs. Biden and or Warren. Put them all in the category as of now in the same one Hillary vs. Trump was in 2016. We're back to choosing the lesser of two evils or the candidate we least want to lose.

But with such a long time to go, all of this could change immensely.

No matter who the Democratic base chooses to nominate, there will be naysayers who will claim that we should have picked somebody else.
 
No matter who the Democratic base chooses to nominate, there will be naysayers who will claim that we should have picked somebody else.

Hopefully it will not be like last time when the idiots voted for Trump or stayed home because they were trolled by the Russians.
 
And Trump will hammer Bernie on socialism and his honeymoon in the USSR. We will be treated to endless clips of him frolicking with Communists and what can he say? Bernie has far more baggage than Warren and at least Warren has accomplishments to tout. I also have not heard one Trumpist that wants Warren to face Trump.

Even if you want to deliberately ignore Bernie's impressive legislative record and status as 'Amendment King' as you apparently do, that he singlehandedly shifted the Overton Window in American politics to making discussion and support of singlepayer healthcare, free college, campaign finance reform, money in politics and UHC mainstream, while simultaneously reviving the FDR wing of the party, both things that would have been deemed unthinkable by the vast majority as recently as 2016, is by itself a historical accomplishment that trumps, pun unintended, anything Warren has done despite my immense respect for her. He has objectively set the tone and baseline for the Democratic party; this is beyond dispute; even if he loses the primary, he still wins.

Beyond that, if you legitimately think that ancient clips about his honeymoon to the USSR, and 'muh socialism' based attacks are going to be enough to sink his candidacy in the general, I don't know what to tell you other than that your innate bias against the man is clearly clouding your judgement. First of all, those clips have been in circulation for awhile, and they haven't really done much to blunt Bernie. Second, the line of attack is not really going to resonate with anyone outside of Trump's base, and Donnie already got that on lockdown. Few people care about Republican McCarthy hysterics anymore; they've played it to the bone after having unironically and repeatedly called Obama a communist and socialist; someone who is a centrist at best, even by American standards (and staunchly conservative anywhere else in the developed world: Obama the Conservative | Tracking Obama's abandoning of the progressive agenda, and the disconnect between his words and deeds. ), meanwhile as good, popular policies, both existing and pending become associated with socialism per Bernie's deliberate maneuverings, it gets blunted even further. Bernie was playing actual 3-d chess in identifying as a democratic socialist despite obviously being a social democrat, knowing full and well that Repubs are ultimately going to come at him with this as their primary line of attack; this is a tactic known as 'getting out in front'. Now more than ever, it is exceedingly easy to frame such alarmism as the blatant absurdity it is. When you overuse and blanket everything left of Republican fanaticism as 'socialist/communist', as the GOP has done, you will find that the word is quickly robbed of its power of pejorative.

To be clear, I think Warren has a good shot in the general, and certainly a better one than Biden at this point who continues to deteriorate, but I find your basis for pearl clutching about Sanders is largely baseless in light of the facts as they stand.
 
Hopefully it will not be like last time when the idiots voted for Trump or stayed home because they were trolled by the Russians.

We should never forget how much Russian propaganda targeted not only Republican voters but Bernie supporters as well. One in four of them did not vote for Hillary in the general election.

Russia is actively working for a repeat. Robert Mueller didn't just confirm it, he emphasized it.
 
Also I think taking the "vote for me to get rid of Trump as I am the only one that can beat him" argument is pretty weak from Biden. It might work with indies and those republicans who dont like Trump, but its short on policy. It will leave progressives a bit peeved I think especially when Biden and Trump debate and he stands down on Medicare for all and a $15 min wage because its 'socialist."

That's the Rockefeller campaign line in 1968. Rockefeller had a larger advantage over the democrats but Nixon still had a slight advantage.
The rank in file wanted Nixon despite Rockefeller campaigning about being the one to win in 68. They figured they could still win with Nixon
and they did.

Bernie always in 2016 had higher leads in the polls over Trump than Mrs. Clinton did. But the primary voters, elitists & super delegates preferred Clinton
thought they could win with her but they didn't. Funny how these things work out.
 
And Trump will hammer Bernie on socialism and his honeymoon in the USSR. We will be treated to endless clips of him frolicking with Communists and saying stupid things and what can he say? Bernie has far more baggage than Warren and at least Warren has accomplishments to tout. I also have not heard one Trumpist that wants Warren to face Trump. Where she is weak is supporting Bernie's Medicare for all. Threatening to throw 75% of Americans off their company policies is not a vote getter not to mention it is "pie in the sky" Sorry but Biden's policy of adding to the ACA is far more voter friendly and adding a public option is at least in the realm pf possibility.

If we nominate a "progressive" such as Warren or Sanders and lose the 2020 election--and I pray to the gods that we do not lose--I predict that independent voters' disgust with Medicare-for-all will be the downfall. Progressives learned nothing from the unmitigated disaster of Coloradocare, but that's because their ability for introspection is second-worst only to tRump supporters.
 
And Trump will hammer Bernie on socialism and his honeymoon in the USSR. We will be treated to endless clips of him frolicking with Communists and saying stupid things and what can he say? Bernie has far more baggage than Warren and at least Warren has accomplishments to tout. I also have not heard one Trumpist that wants Warren to face Trump. Where she is weak is supporting Bernie's Medicare for all. Threatening to throw 75% of Americans off their company policies is not a vote getter not to mention it is "pie in the sky" Sorry but Biden's policy of adding to the ACA is far more voter friendly and adding a public option is at least in the realm pf possibility.

Exactly, support for Medicare for All when it is pointed out that you would lose your employer sponsored plans is less than 40%. The proponents for Medicare for All say that they just need to communicate what it is. OK, sure, people are pretty ignorant of healthcare policy, that is true. The last time we tried anything even close to Medicare for All was the Clinton healthcare plan / bill in the early 90s. Now think about that. Bill Clinton was easily the best political communicator in decades. Probably in anyone's lifetime. Yet his message was overwhelmed by all the money from providers, insurance, pharma and so on, and it ended up being an unmitigated disaster for Democrats come 1994. The greatest political communicator in anyone's lifetime could not sell a fully universal, national healthcare program, but they think Bernie can.
 
We should never forget how much Russian propaganda targeted not only Republican voters but Bernie supporters as well. One in four of them did not vote for Hillary in the general election.

Russia is actively working for a repeat. Robert Mueller didn't just confirm it, he emphasized it.

As repeatedly mentioned in the past, Bernie defection/sit out rates were less than those of Hillary's supporters in 2018.

Moreover, the vast majority of Bernie turncoats and sitouts did not have any strong affiliation with the Democratic party, and thus could not be relied upon to remain faithful.

In fact it is very much conceivable that Hillary may have even been in a worse place without Bernie's demonstrable ability to bring in people from outside of the party, and him working his ass off to campaign on her behalf.
 
Pathetic watching Trumpsters attack Biden for being his age.

He’s almost the same age as Trump.

And I doubt that he fills most of his days with “Executive Time”, the way TRump does.

Ol Joe is probably napping. At least that's what his advisors are recommending.
 
Exactly, support for Medicare for All when it is pointed out that you would lose your employer sponsored plans is less than 40%. The proponents for Medicare for All say that they just need to communicate what it is. OK, sure, people are pretty ignorant of healthcare policy, that is true. The last time we tried anything even close to Medicare for All was the Clinton healthcare plan / bill in the early 90s. Now think about that. Bill Clinton was easily the best political communicator in decades. Probably in anyone's lifetime. Yet his message was overwhelmed by all the money from providers, insurance, pharma and so on, and it ended up being an unmitigated disaster for Democrats come 1994. The greatest political communicator in anyone's lifetime could not a fully universal, national healthcare program, but they think Bernie can.

#1: Private insurers are going to continue to exist in some form as they do in the UK and Canada; MFA only forbids duplication of primary services, not supplementation.

#2: When pollsters cite the increment of benefits in MFA over standard existing plans they replace, support actually increases. I'll reference the source when I have more time; presently at work.
 
Back
Top Bottom