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Will the US ever have universal healthcare?

Will the US ever have universal healthcare?


  • Total voters
    58
Great. Canada figured out single payer and we can too.

That's an interesting just-so fantasy.

The United States voting public, at current, isn't willing to accede to the crushing taxes that would be necessary, and our current single payer model (Medicare) is already collapsing, so, no, we probably won't.
 
That's an interesting just-so fantasy.

The United States voting public, at current, isn't willing to accede to the crushing taxes that would be necessary, and our current single payer model (Medicare) is already collapsing, so, no, we probably won't.

Well you have an opinion about that.

How nice for you
 
Well you have an opinion about that.

:shrug: my assessment is based in the available data, which is why throughout this thread I've provided you the numbers and the links. Thus far, yours seems based in wishful thinking that deliberately avoids any attempt to really consider how it might apply what is available in the real world towards its attainment.

Until you can tell us how you plan to:

A) pay for this program in a manner that
B) Americans are willing to accept in return for it

my point remains: We are not willing to take on the costs of this monstrosity, and so, we likely will not do so.
 
It's absolutely baffling that Republicans who claim to be fiscal conservatives support such an astronomically expensive system that ranks nowhere near the top internationally in quality of care, healthcare outcomes, life expectancy, access to care, affordability, or any other metric.

Apparently, 'fiscal conservative' only means caring about upfront costs. Investment is not part of their vocabulary.
 
:shrug: my assessment is based in the available data, which is why throughout this thread I've provided you the numbers and the links. Thus far, yours seems based in wishful thinking that deliberately avoids any attempt to really consider how it might apply what is available in the real world towards its attainment.

Until you can tell us how you plan to:

A) pay for this program in a manner that
B) Americans are willing to accept in return for it

my point remains: We are not willing to take on the costs of this monstrosity, and so, we likely will not do so.

Already answered. This probably wont happen until after next year when a Democrat wins the presidency. And then if the people want it.....they shall have it
 
Already answered. This probably wont happen until after next year when a Democrat wins the presidency. And then if the people want it.....they shall have it

Yeah - your answer was a longer version of "Nuh-UH!", and it wasn't terribly effective.

The question isn't "do the people want free stuff" - people love free stuff. The question is "Are the public willing to pay dramatically higher taxes for government to take over the healthcare sector even more?"

So long as the answer to that latter question is "no", and so long as we haven't solved Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security, the reality is that we aren't going to be able to have a single payer system for the simple reason that we won't be able to afford it. :shrug:


 
Yeah - your answer was a longer version of "Nuh-UH!", and it wasn't terribly effective.

The question isn't "do the people want free stuff" - people love free stuff. The question is "Are the public willing to pay dramatically higher taxes for government to take over the healthcare sector even more?"

So long as the answer to that latter question is "no", and so long as we haven't solved Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security, the reality is that we aren't going to be able to have a single payer system for the simple reason that we won't be able to afford it. :shrug:




I thought you said it wasn't free because they pay taxes??? So which is it???

Look you have an opinion and you are welcome to it. But there is no one...even trump....running on the idea that we cant possibly have UHC.


It is inevitable
 
I thought you said it wasn't free because they pay taxes??? So which is it???

:) It's not free at all - but, given how people on the left side of the aisle love to obfuscate this point, I certainly understand your confusion.

When asked if they want Free Stuff like Medicare for All, Americans tend to say sure, sign us up. When asked if they want to pay the attendant taxes as part of that.... not so much.

Look you have an opinion and you are welcome to it

Sure. What I also have is math, along with data points based on U.S. budget projections. Thus far, you've not been able to come up with the math to argue your position.

But there is no one...even trump....running on the idea that we cant possibly have UHC.

Trump is an uneducated moron, and hardly a conservative. Thus far, however, the "How are you going to pay for it" response is a pretty effective tool against Democrats running on UHC, for the simple enough reason that Democrats currently divide (roughly) into two camps:

1. Those who don't know
2. Those whose funding plans are political losers

And, of course, should they try, well, math doesn't care about your level of desire, and reality isn't optional. Medicare/Medicaid are already slow-motion crashing, and Social Security has it's own massive unfunded liability coming due - we don't even have the money to keep our current programs, much less expand them many-fold. The Magical Power Of Wanting isn't going to change that.


It is inevitable

It's as inevitable as the Fair Tax, the Flat Tax, Free College For Everyone, and a return to the Gold Standard - all of whose advocates way overestimate their chances, because they don't like dealing with difficult questions.
 
:) It's not free at all - but, given how people on the left side of the aisle love to obfuscate this point, I certainly understand your confusion.

When asked if they want Free Stuff like Medicare for All, Americans tend to say sure, sign us up. When asked if they want to pay the attendant taxes as part of that.... not so much.



Sure. What I also have is math, along with data points based on U.S. budget projections. Thus far, you've not been able to come up with the math to argue your position.



Trump is an uneducated moron, and hardly a conservative. Thus far, however, the "How are you going to pay for it" response is a pretty effective tool against Democrats running on UHC, for the simple enough reason that Democrats currently divide (roughly) into two camps:

1. Those who don't know
2. Those whose funding plans are political losers

And, of course, should they try, well, math doesn't care about your level of desire, and reality isn't optional. Medicare/Medicaid are already slow-motion crashing, and Social Security has it's own massive unfunded liability coming due - we don't even have the money to keep our current programs, much less expand them many-fold. The Magical Power Of Wanting isn't going to change that.




It's as inevitable as the Fair Tax, the Flat Tax, Free College For Everyone, and a return to the Gold Standard - all of whose advocates way overestimate their chances, because they don't like dealing with difficult questions.

So to sum up.....every presidential candidate is running on a platform of UHC.


Face it....its inevitable
 
So to sum up.....every presidential candidate is running on a platform of UHC.

Trump isn't. And, according to his website, neither is Biden

Face it....its inevitable

It's as inevitable as the Fair Tax, the Flat Tax, Free College For Everyone, and a return to the Gold Standard - all of whose advocates, like UHC advocates, way overestimate their chances, because they don't like dealing with difficult questions.


Face it. You can't afford it.
 
Trump isn't. And, according to his website, neither is Biden



It's as inevitable as the Fair Tax, the Flat Tax, Free College For Everyone, and a return to the Gold Standard - all of whose advocates, like UHC advocates, way overestimate their chances, because they don't like dealing with difficult questions.


Face it. You can't afford it.

This is what trump said


We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump*said*in an interview with The Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”


Was he lying?


And Biden is a huge supporter of UHC.


Face it. Its inevitable
 
This is what trump said

We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump*said*in an interview with The Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”

Was he lying?

Eh. I'd say mindlessly boasting and just spewing whatever came into his brain three seconds before he said it. However, he certainly isn't running on UHC, and your claim that .every presidential candidate is running on a platform of UHC remains incorrect.


And Biden is a huge supporter of UHC.

:shrug: you can say so. According to his own website, he's not running on a platform of UHC, meaning that your claim that .every presidential candidate is running on a platform of UHC remains incorrect.


Face it. Its inevitable

You seem to think that repeating this will somehow magically make it so. What is this, some kind of weird prayer/mantra that you use to keep the faith in the face of difficult reality?
 
Eh. I'd say mindlessly boasting and just spewing whatever came into his brain three seconds before he said it. However, he certainly isn't running on UHC, and your claim that .every presidential candidate is running on a platform of UHC remains incorrect.




:shrug: you can say so. According to his own website, he's not running on a platform of UHC, meaning that your claim that .every presidential candidate is running on a platform of UHC remains incorrect.



You seem to think that repeating this will somehow magically make it so. Face it. You can't afford it.

Trump wants UHC and so does Biden. And so does every other candidate
 
Trump wants UHC and so does Biden.

You can claim they do (that's neat, you're a mind reader now, if not much of a math person), however, neither of them is running on a platform of UHC, and so your claim that every presidential candidate is running on a platform of UHC remains incorrect.
 
You can claim they do (that's neat, you're a mind reader now, if not much of a math person), however, neither of them is running on a platform of UHC, and so your claim that every presidential candidate is running on a platform of UHC remains incorrect.

Well I gave you a quote and Biden says everyone will have a plan for them.


So theres that. Lol
 
Well I gave you a quote and Biden says everyone will have a plan for them.

Yeah - citing a Trump quote is meaningless because he A) lies, when he B) isn't making crap up. He isn't running on a platform of UHC (Trump has a few basic strong inclinations: Wall Good! Trade Bad!, and beyond that, he's uninterested in policy). Biden is also not running on a platform of UHC.

Which means the (current) two leading contenders for POTUS both are not running on a platform of UHC, meaning that your claim that EVERY candidate was running on a platform of UHC is incorrect.
 
Yeah - citing a Trump quote is meaningless because he A) lies, when he B) isn't making crap up. He isn't running on a platform of UHC (Trump has a few basic strong inclinations: Wall Good! Trade Bad!, and beyond that, he's uninterested in policy). Biden is also not running on a platform of UHC.

Which means the (current) two leading contenders for POTUS both are not running on a platform of UHC, meaning that your claim that EVERY candidate was running on a platform of UHC is incorrect.

Biden has a plan for everyone as you have shown and trump said he supports UHC.


Facts are facts
 
Biden has a plan for everyone as you have shown and trump said he supports UHC.

No he doesn't. Even Biden doesn't claim his plan would result in UHC. Neither he nor Trump are running on a platform of UHC, and therefore your claim that every candidate running for President was running on a platform of UHC is incorrect.

This seems like a very odd and indefensible hill for you to choose to die on.
 
No he doesn't. Even Biden doesn't claim his plan would result in UHC. Neither he nor Trump are running on a platform of UHC, and therefore your claim that every candidate running for President was running on a platform of UHC is incorrect.

This seems like a very odd and indefensible hill for you to choose to die on.

Well you said trump lies so should I believe your lie or my lie? Lol
 
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