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Would You Trade Tougher Immigration Laws For Gun Control Measures?

Would You Trade Tougher Immigration Laws for Common Sense Gun Control Legislation?

  • Total voters
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Moderate Right said:
Neither party will try. Democrats, no matter how much they deny it, want open borders and Republicans aren't much for gun control of any kind.
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That is true.
The mass shootings will continue regardless who is president and the 100 people killed every day in homicides will continue.
Democrats won’t do anything on gun control. They had their opportunities and did nothing. The states will continue to legislate their own laws.
 
swing_voter said:
So the left agrees that for the 12 million illegal immigrants working in America, we give them 4 year work visas. You can't just remove 12 million workers from your economy. 4 years from now we can decide to reissue the work visas for another 4 years or not.

And the right agrees to some major screening for gun ownership where we determine if you're a nut job who's going to shoot a bunch of innocent people or not.

And the left will agree to make sneaking into America illegally a major crime.

And the right will agree to "gun restraining orders" where if your family, school or job convince a judge you're likely to shoot a bunch of innocent people, you have to stay 100 yards away from a gun.

Hows that?
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Done! Who needs a congress, anyway?
 
Would you trade giving people more gun rights in exchange for reasonable anti-abortion laws?

^ The point is that the OP question is flawed. NO ONE is proposing "reasonable gun control laws."

Nor does it matter what immigration laws are because none are enforced anyway. It will only be taking away Constitutional gun rights laws that would be enforced. As we just saw in Indiana, the police will arrest people with a gun even if entirely legal to have it.

Increasingly, laws and rights only exist to the extent government wants them to exist circumstantially. If the anyone with government power doesn't like a constitutional or statutory right, it declares it doesn't exist and does the opposite. If something is illegal, but anyone in power doesn't agree, that law is ignored. The United States only has rule of law circumstantially, depending solely upon what anyone in power wants instead.
 
Outlook said:
That is true.
The mass shootings will continue regardless who is president and the 100 people killed every day in homicides will continue.
Democrats won’t do anything on gun control. They had their opportunities and did nothing. The states will continue to legislate their own laws.
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I always find it funny that liberals think they have all the answers but constantly look to the federal government to do things they should have done themselves in the first place.
 
Moderate Right said:
I define "common sense" gun control legislation as the very same "common sense" things that have already been discussed, nothing new. Stricter immigration laws is harder to define and I left the polling question kind of vague on purpose. I figured people already had an opinion on the subject and apparently I was correct. Neither side has any intention of compromising with these issues together so I figured if we can't even agree on generalities then there is no point in venturing off into the exact details.
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Ok, that makes it more difficult to respond. To me the most "common sense" gun law is one that strengthens measures to ensure the database of people who shouldn't have guns is more accurate and kept up to date. The system processes millions of inquiries annually and rejects about 100k. A huge percentage of mass shootings of the type like Dayton or El Paso are done by shooters who have passed NICS background checks. Frequently it comes out in retrospect that the shooter's mindset was known to someone. Allegedly the El Paso shooter's mother reported her son's behavior to the police but nothing came of it. The Parkland Florida shooter came to the attention of authorities several times. There were several other cases where all the signs were there and known but the shooter wasn't investigated.


Universal Background Checks is a rallying cry for the left these days but without better maintenance of the database is just GIGO - garbage in- garbage out. Nor will UBC catch the criminal sales and exchanges of weapons - which account for somewhere around 85-90% of gun murders.


Just a few thoughts.
 
Bullseye said:
Ok, that makes it more difficult to respond. To me the most "common sense" gun law is one that strengthens measures to ensure the database of people who shouldn't have guns is more accurate and kept up to date. The system processes millions of inquiries annually and rejects about 100k. A huge percentage of mass shootings of the type like Dayton or El Paso are done by shooters who have passed NICS background checks. Frequently it comes out in retrospect that the shooter's mindset was known to someone. Allegedly the El Paso shooter's mother reported her son's behavior to the police but nothing came of it. The Parkland Florida shooter came to the attention of authorities several times. There were several other cases where all the signs were there and known but the shooter wasn't investigated.


Universal Background Checks is a rallying cry for the left these days but without better maintenance of the database is just GIGO - garbage in- garbage out. Nor will UBC catch the criminal sales and exchanges of weapons - which account for somewhere around 85-90% of gun murders.


Just a few thoughts.
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What the left just don't get is that criminals don't obey the law. If they want guns they will get guns, no matter how many laws are passed. You can't pass any law that will keep guns out of the hands of those who want them. In my area alone there have been a huge rash in car breakins where these people are out to get guns as their main objective.
 
Moderate Right said:
What the left just don't get is that criminals don't obey the law. If they want guns they will get guns, no matter how many laws are passed. You can't pass any law that will keep guns out of the hands of those who want them. In my area alone there have been a huge rash in car breakins where these people are out to get guns as their main objective.
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They seem to treat these laws as some sort of religious catechism that one must believe in above all else, rather than as any form of rational, effective solutions. They're almost nonsensical:


Lefty: "we must have background checks".

Righty: "we already do - millions per year"

Lefty: "You don't understand! We MUST have background checks".

Righty: "We do! FBI conducts millions a year. They're required by federal law"

Left: "But, we need background checks! People are dying".


lather, rinse, repeat.
 
Moderate Right said:
As a general question, because obviously we don't know the exact details, would you be willing to sign off on stricter immigration laws in exchange for "common sense" gun control measures (that have already been talked about)? Or if you are from the other persuasion, would you sign off on common sense gun control legislation in exchange for tougher immigration laws? Trump has brought up the idea of marrying these two issues together in legislation.
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Hell no. This needs to be a clean bill. Trying to extract a price for doing something that needs to be done is thuggery and politics at its ugliest. Hopefully our Republican friends can actually do something that is right for the American people
 
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upsideguy said:
Hell no. This needs to be a clean bill. Trying to extract a price for doing something that needs to be done is thuggery and politics at its ugliest. Hopefully our Republican friends can actually do something that is right for the American people
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Or, hopefully, or Democratic friends can forget their hollow mantras and help do something effective for those American people.
 
Moderate Right said:
As a general question, because obviously we don't know the exact details, would you be willing to sign off on stricter immigration laws in exchange for "common sense" gun control measures (that have already been talked about)? Or if you are from the other persuasion, would you sign off on common sense gun control legislation in exchange for tougher immigration laws? Trump has brought up the idea of marrying these two issues together in legislation.
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As long as the immigration restrictions were substantial, and were passed first or in the same bill, then yes.
 
upsideguy said:
Hell no. This needs to be a clean bill. Trying to extract a price for doing something that needs to be done is thuggery and politics at its ugliest. Hopefully our Republican friends can actually do something that is right for the American people
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I agree, and Democrats are just as guilty of thuggery as the other side is. Something needs to be done about illegal immigration but the left refuse to do anything about it.
 
Moderate Right said:
I agree, and Democrats are just as guilty of thuggery as the other side is. Something needs to be done about illegal immigration but the left refuse to do anything about it.
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There has been "no thuggery" on their part. The "left" is very open to dealing with immigration. In fact, they want this issue resolved in a comprehensive manner. They are just not very likely to endorse a wall, but evidence suggests they would even do that if the solution were comprehensive. That evidence being the deal hat they worked out with Trump over a year ago, before Trump went back on his word.

Right Wing Explodes as Trump Cuts Another Deal with “Chuck and Nancy” | Vanity Fair

Sorry, but I see no evidence of so-called "thuggery" on their part. If you have such credible third-party evidence, I am sure we would all love to see it.
 
upsideguy said:
There has been "no thuggery" on their part. The "left" is very open to dealing with immigration. In fact, they want this issue resolved in a comprehensive manner. They are just not very likely to endorse a wall, but evidence suggests they would even do that if the solution were comprehensive. That evidence being the deal hat they worked out with Trump over a year ago, before Trump went back on his word.

Right Wing Explodes as Trump Cuts Another Deal with “Chuck and Nancy” | Vanity Fair

Sorry, but I see no evidence of so-called "thuggery" on their part. If you have such credible third-party evidence, I am sure we would all love to see it.
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The left are not open to dealing with immigration at all. They have sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, let these people vote, defend illegals from ICE raids, and want to give them free healthcare. They have zero policies in place for stopping illegal immigration, other than having an open door policy and making all immigration legal.
 
Moderate Right said:
The left are not open to dealing with immigration at all. They have sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, let these people vote, defend illegals from ICE raids, and want to give them free healthcare. They have zero policies in place for stopping illegal immigration, other than having an open door policy and making all immigration legal.
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But they are open to dealing with illegal immigration, just not in a vacuum of ignoring the plight of immigrants already here AND the process for immigration going forward. As I pointed out, the Dems had a deal with Trump that the Republicans sabotaged. The history of immigration reform includes multiple instances of Republican sabotage. There is very little evidence that the Republicans really want the issue addressed. It seems they get too much mileage out of vilifying Democrats and immigrants alike.

The History and Prospects for Comprehensive Immigration Reform | Foster Global

Again, if you want to refute my claims, you owe me third party evidence to back up what you say.
 
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