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Who won the Democratic Party Debate Night #2? 7/31

Who won the Democratic Party Debate Night #2? 7/30


  • Total voters
    42
Show me where she's trying to justify legalizing torture and I'll gladly eat said words. I've given you my red line, and thus far she hasn't crossed it.

I'm not persuaded by this absurd idea that because she stated she wouldn't oppose torture with nuclear armaggedon as an alternative she clearly would be at serious risk of legalizing and initiating torture upon getting into office.

Her defense of torture: In a 2015 interview when the CIA report about use of torture came out, she said she was conflicted about the report. She has been asked to clarify her stance about it and she has. The CIA report was new, when the interview happened, but her stance is clear. After she reviewed the report, she voted (back in 2015) for H.R. 1735, including the amendment to the 2016 NDAA, codifying President Obama’s executive order banning enhanced interrogation/torture methods.*"); background-size: 1px 1px; background-position: 0px calc(1em + 1px); font-family: medium-content-serif-font, Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: -0.072px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">This ban solidified our commitment to United States law and international agreements
Tulsi Gabbard: Separating smears from reality. - Alan Myron - Medium

Pretty good article debunking the smears and quite a few links to videos for those interested in getting to know Tulsi.
 
In Republican circles they certainly have expressed concern about Harris.

Yes, I'm sure they have expressed such sentiments about literally everyone in the nomination process who has ever polled at double digits. Harris as an especial threat though? I haven't seen it, at least not as consistently as some others.
 
I'm going to take this as an admission then that you cannot in fact actually demonstrate her intent to legalize torture.

This would be impossible given that she is on the record as having voted to make torture illegal.
 
I'm gobsmacked. How can anyone overlook that????

Torture. We don't do it. Nothing further to be said.

And one reason we don't do it is due to her vote in banning enhanced interrogations...........
 
Tulsi Gabbard: Separating smears from reality. - Alan Myron - Medium

Pretty good article debunking the smears and quite a few links to videos for those interested in getting to know Tulsi.

Indeed, I didn't even deign to address whether she was conflicted on the report because I know she made up her mind on it, and supported the codification of that EO against torture; this is why I think it's so completely ridiculous to assume she would support legalization of torture on the basis of a theoretical where I'm sure a vast majority of people would answer similarly.

Thanks for the link though, that's excellent.
 
Indeed, I didn't even deign to address whether she was conflicted on the report because I know she made up her mind on it, and supported the codification of that EO against torture; this is why I think it's so completely ridiculous to assume she would support legalization of torture on the basis of a theoretical where I'm sure a vast majority of people would answer similarly.

Thanks for the link though, that's excellent.

Just happened to come across it looking for a link on the vote for banning enhanced interrogations.
 
Not quite sure why you think Biden is a 'hindrance' this early on. We haven't hit New Years yet!. He is definitely not my first choice by any means, but he has value in this race in that he presents an establishment, traditional moderate/liberal point of view that the party may want hear. We need that experienced traditional view expressed in these contests and debates. The man has 30 years behind his belt, and he has seen a lot of cycles, and a lot of history and he can speak to Obama's presidential decisions in this campaign cycle. He is this years' Hillary Clinton - without Bill Clinton and Debbie Wasserman attached. We have at max, three non-progressives or establishment candidates among the 20 candidates and we as voters, need to hear what they have to say about these very progressive policy proposals this election cycle at least through April of next year, and none of the other moderates are burning up with charisma! . I am more worried that none of the moderates last long, and by convention time, it becomes a race to see how far to the left each candidate takes the party! Bad plan that!

I sound like a broken record, but I truly believe if our party does not shut out voices early on, before we even get to Super Tuesday, we are far more likely to pick a better candidate , than we did in 2016. The party's collective wisdom, did not work last time because there was nobody to use it on!

This is healthier! I urge patience.

Edit! If you meant Sanders should go, I would offer the same basic argument. That Socialist Democrat message, is healthy for us to hear through April at least. We are a better party for it and his income redistribution anti-corporate message needs to be heard every debate. In some ways he is truly the 'economic justice' candidate we cannot afford to ignore... but I don't want him to win either.

I didn't say Biden is a hindrance. That's why the name "Sanders" was in my post. Sanders and Biden are not the same man.
 
On this we disagree. I'm a lifelong Republican and prefer some moderates. I didn't vote for Clinton (Bill I mean) but I appreciated the fact that he wasn't uber left.

We certainly do, including on the definitions used.

As someone who follows international politics, I'm also familiar with the political frame of reference of other developed countries.

As a dual citizen, I'm intimate with the Canadian political frame of reference as well.

Per the metric of the rest of the developed world, not one person in the entire Dem field could be considered 'uber left'. Even by Canadian standards, which is generally a bridge between the very right leaning American political frame of reference and its left leaning European counterpart, even Bernie would only be considered to be merely of the left, and the majority of the Dem field some form of conservative (in particular the moderates). For example, Obama would be considered well to the right of conservative ex-Prime Minister Stephen Harper in pretty much every capacity save the social axis.

The US is an absurd anomaly in terms of its current Overton window and the lean of its politics; one I am happy to notice is at last returning to normalcy, almost singlehandedly thanks to Bernie, after veering economically to the right ever since the 70s. Whether he succeeds this time or not, he has changed things permanently for the better, and we're just not going back to the good ol neoliberal 90s where a relic like Biden, and the other 'moderates' belong. The zeitgeist is progressive as is the future, and they and all the powers that be in the Democratic party leadership can only hold back that tide for so long, and only at great peril to the party's power and prospects as we saw in 2016.
 
I kind of like Harris even those she is a pandering little bitch! I think she is attractive and I like her voice sort of.

Spoken like a true Trump voter.

The election is what, 460 days away? Why the hell are there ANY 2020 debates going on?!

... said the Trump supporter whose idol has not stopped campaigning since 2016
 
And tonight showed why I have supported Cory Booker, saying that even if he doesn't get the nomination (which is unlikely at the moment), the person who does get the nomination would be a fool not to snag Booker as VP. This guy is likable, funny, smart as a whip, and can excite voters beyond even Obama's vaunted ability!

First time I heard Booker give a full-on passionate speech, I screamed "Amen!" when he finished, and I'm not even religious! [emoji38] That guy can mesmerize an audience and have them throwing roses at his feet... and they'd sure as hell break their necks to get to the polls on election day to check a box with his name next to it!
An excellent point. The ability to inspire a cult of personality is far and away the number one attribute we want to look for in a President or VP.

Which is why we are so happy with our current occupant...

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
 
I kind of like Harris even those she is a pandering little bitch! I think she is attractive and I like her voice sort of.

Tulsi is super hot but is just throwing hail mary's.

Biden has no chance. He is politics as usual.

Castro is a pretty sneaky pick to win the nomination.

DeBlasio is done. I can't stand the loud mouth New Yorkers.

Gillibrand is ok looking.

Booker is just too goofy looking.

You judge a potential CIC by if they are attractive or not? Seriously?
 
You judge a potential CIC by if they are attractive or not? Seriously?

I don't take any of these candidates seriously so I have to judge them somehow.
 
Spoken like a true Trump voter.



... said the Trump supporter whose idol has not stopped campaigning since 2016

Ben Shapiro say's it's over for Harris after Tulsi took her down. I could live with Tulsi as President because she is very easy on the eyes. Shapiro predicts a Biden vs Warren showdown. I've said this all along.
 
Tulsi at least comes off as a normal person. She doesn't pander like the rest.

BTW....Who voted for Harris?
 
My Performance Ranking from Last to First:

10. DeBlasio 9. Yang 8. Gabbard 7. Gillibrand 6. Biden 5. Bennet 4. Harris 3. Castro 2. Inslee 1. Booker

Biden held on like a punch drunk boxer. He repeated the same catch phrases... i.e. "The fact of the matter....", "Here's the deal..", "Obama vetted me with ten attorneys...". All 9 of the other candidates articulated better than Biden. All of them managed the time constraints better than Biden. Biden remains the odds-on favorite.

DeBlasio's loud mouth interruption in violation of the format sealed my decision to rank him last.

Booker doesn't have any real plans or stances on issues, just a bunch of ideological rants. Inslee only has climate change which is way overblown by the left. Castro is another who doesn't have much of a record to show anything he has done, he just criticizes. Kamala got bitch slapped by Gabbard and exposed for the hyprocritical flip flopping liar she is. Jailed folks for marijuana and laughed about doing it herself. You can look up the interview where she did that. Joes got Mueller disease. Bernie and Warren will tax the country into poverty. butttegiege and ORourke are littel teenie boppers with not real plans and a history of not accomplishing much to speak of. Democrats got nothing but hating Trump, green new deal, racist rants. Take away the health care of 180 million americans. Nothing for the country.

Kamala Harris Backs Legalization: I Smoked Marijuana, "I Think It Gives A Lot Of People Joy" | Video | RealClearPolitics
 
We certainly do, including on the definitions used.

As someone who follows international politics, I'm also familiar with the political frame of reference of other developed countries.

As a dual citizen, I'm intimate with the Canadian political frame of reference as well.

Per the metric of the rest of the developed world, not one person in the entire Dem field could be considered 'uber left'. Even by Canadian standards, which is generally a bridge between the very right leaning American political frame of reference and its left leaning European counterpart, even Bernie would only be considered to be merely of the left, and the majority of the Dem field some form of conservative (in particular the moderates). For example, Obama would be considered well to the right of conservative ex-Prime Minister Stephen Harper in pretty much every capacity save the social axis.

The US is an absurd anomaly in terms of its current Overton window and the lean of its politics; one I am happy to notice is at last returning to normalcy, almost singlehandedly thanks to Bernie, after veering economically to the right ever since the 70s. Whether he succeeds this time or not, he has changed things permanently for the better, and we're just not going back to the good ol neoliberal 90s where a relic like Biden, and the other 'moderates' belong. The zeitgeist is progressive as is the future, and they and all the powers that be in the Democratic party leadership can only hold back that tide for so long, and only at great peril to the party's power and prospects as we saw in 2016.

The disease of welfare socialism and nanny state government is pervasive world-wide. Those born into dependency tend to outbreed those who eschew wanting to be wards of the state.
 
The disease of welfare socialism and nanny state government is pervasive world-wide. Those born into dependency tend to outbreed those who eschew wanting to be wards of the state.

I mean between these other developed countries having a better standard of living, education and health care system as a rule, and many of them ranking higher in terms of freedom of press, democratic integrity, and even economic freedom and freedom in general, I think the facts kind of speak for themselves.

Yeah, the US can certainly be argued as being the best country on earth if you're rich as ****, no question, because more or less everything is slanted in your favour by design after countless decades of lobbying and plutocratic campaign finance; otherwise not so much.
 
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interesting post: 'She could be the candidate that will get the nomination. At the very least, her chances are higher now than what they were before.'

There are 20 candidates and she ranks as #6 now, I'd love to see her break into the top tier! In the sports books she's rising!

US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION 2020 - DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE (ALL IN/NO REFUNDS)

501 Joe Biden is Democratic Nominee +255
503 E Warren is Democratic Nominee +300
505 K Harris is Democratic Nominee +350
507 B Sanders is Democratic Nominee +900
509 Buttigieg is Democratic Nominee +1000
511 Gabbard is Democratic Nominee +2000

Remainder of the top 10

513 A Yang is Democratic Nominee +2200
515 C Booker is Democratic Nominee +3500
517 O'Rourke is Democratic Nominee +7500
519 Steyer is Democratic Nominee +10000

This is actually pretty accurate standing After that night, Gabbard should be elevated significantly. Now, I'm going to look at this as if I were Democrat voter (which I'm not), so bear with me.

If I were looking for someone to represent my viewpoints, lesser border security, healthcare coverage, and a bunch of other stuff Leftists like, but I don't want someone who's over the top about that, Tulsi Gabbard would be my top choice. She's calm, calculated, and has a (much more) honorable record than the other people running. Mistress Harris would be the worst of the bunch, She parades herself around as if she's a goddess, but she's arrogant, condescending, and just not a nice person. On top of all that, she's a purist. In other words, she's WAY over the top on her positions and typically not faithful at all with the goal she's trying to accomplish. She thinks she's "holier than thou". Gabbard doesn't come across like that. She holds true to her beliefs and policies, but isn't as ridiculous about it. I would vote for her over these other candidates, again, if I were a Democrat voter because she seems more moderate, if that's what defines the Democrat party (a party of moderates), than a foam at the mouth Leftist. Creepy Joe, even though he's seen as a moderate, he's low energy and can't get the base relied up like Gabbard because she's much younger and can connect with young people. Yang lacks the spine to do anything, despite what young Leftists say about him. Gabbard, once again, is strong in character and won't bend over backwards.

Now the reality. The majority of Democrat voters, as it stands today (and how it stands on your chart, which is very accurate), are going with Creepy Joe because most of the Democrat voting base not only see him as a moderate (which he isn't), but also a 3rd term of Obama. He WAS the Obama's VP so it makes sense. However, the fact that the candidates attacked Obama relentlessly says something. As big of a Leftist as Obama is, apparently he didn't go far enough in many areas. One could argue that Obama, despite the star power the media gave him, wasn't as popular with the Left as he was made out to be. If that's true, the only reason why the Left didn't come down on him like a plague is because he's black and didn't want the word racist attached to their name by the media. Now that he's been gone for almost 4 years, the gloves are off and they are now saying what they truly thought of him. These candidates thought Obama himself was too moderate during his administration. If this statement is true then we can confirm what we already knew: the Democrat party is NOT the party of moderates, but group of mentally insane whack jobs. The last 2 debates have demonstrated this perfectly.
 
This is actually pretty accurate standing After that night, Gabbard should be elevated significantly. Now, I'm going to look at this as if I were Democrat voter (which I'm not), so bear with me.

If I were looking for someone to represent my viewpoints, lesser border security, healthcare coverage, and a bunch of other stuff Leftists like, but I don't want someone who's over the top about that, Tulsi Gabbard would be my top choice. She's calm, calculated, and has a (much more) honorable record than the other people running. Mistress Harris would be the worst of the bunch, She parades herself around as if she's a goddess, but she's arrogant, condescending, and just not a nice person. On top of all that, she's a purist. In other words, she's WAY over the top on her positions and typically not faithful at all with the goal she's trying to accomplish. She thinks she's "holier than thou". Gabbard doesn't come across like that. She holds true to her beliefs and policies, but isn't as ridiculous about it. I would vote for her over these other candidates, again, if I were a Democrat voter because she seems more moderate, if that's what defines the Democrat party (a party of moderates), than a foam at the mouth Leftist. Creepy Joe, even though he's seen as a moderate, he's low energy and can't get the base relied up like Gabbard because she's much younger and can connect with young people. Yang lacks the spine to do anything, despite what young Leftists say about him. Gabbard, once again, is strong in character and won't bend over backwards.

Now the reality. The majority of Democrat voters, as it stands today (and how it stands on your chart, which is very accurate), are going with Creepy Joe because most of the Democrat voting base not only see him as a moderate (which he isn't), but also a 3rd term of Obama. He WAS the Obama's VP so it makes sense. However, the fact that the candidates attacked Obama relentlessly says something. As big of a Leftist as Obama is, apparently he didn't go far enough in many areas. One could argue that Obama, despite the star power the media gave him, wasn't as popular with the Left as he was made out to be. If that's true, the only reason why the Left didn't come down on him like a plague is because he's black and didn't want the word racist attached to their name by the media. Now that he's been gone for almost 4 years, the gloves are off and they are now saying what they truly thought of him. These candidates thought Obama himself was too moderate during his administration. If this statement is true then we can confirm what we already knew: the Democrat party is NOT the party of moderates, but group of mentally insane whack jobs. The last 2 debates have demonstrated this perfectly.

I might not agree with Tulsi on a lot of things, but I have a hell of a lot more respect for her than any of the clowns on that stage with her, especially Kamala!
I noticed a change in the odds as all remained static except Gabbard who is now 15 to 1 rather than 20 to 1 yesterday.
You know what's funny; I sincerely believe that if AOC was old enough to be on the ballot she could be the front runner.
 
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Frankly, I think we all have lost. Much like the Republican "debates" of 2016, there is no debate, there is no discussion of real policy. This has degraded into a WWE cage match. I blame the networks for indulging in the ever declining standards in our increasingly lost culture. We are losing out democracy people, and few seem to care.
 
Anyone who is "conflicted" about torture, is not one I will trust. Ever.



At 1:47, she's conflicted. At 3:00, the ticking time bomb excuse.


Thank you for posting this, Gina.

I harshly criticized Gabbard in another thread and I was roasted for doing that. Gabbard is inciting a literal cult-like following on the Left no less frightening than tRump's cult-like following on the Right. In both camps, it is strictly forbidden to criticize in any way anything that their paragon says. Do so and you will incur a death of a thousand cuts.
 
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