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What is your alignment?

What is your political allignment?

  • alt right

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • conservative

    Votes: 14 31.8%
  • centrist

    Votes: 2 4.5%
  • progressive

    Votes: 9 20.5%
  • social democrat

    Votes: 8 18.2%
  • democratic socialist

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • libertarian

    Votes: 7 15.9%
  • communitarian

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • not sure

    Votes: 3 6.8%

  • Total voters
    44
Oh COME ON, you know you have to LAUGH HARD when someone says "left-libertarian".
First, it is an endangered species, if for no other reason than YOUR reason! :lamo

Actually, libertarians are mostly of the left in every country except the United States. But if you want to take an Ameri-centric bias on this that is fine. ;)

Most people "around here" (the entire United States!) think of libertarians as right wing, because the ratio of RW-LP to LW-LP is about 300:1 and LW-LP's generally agree with a lot of the social democrat and progressive platforms, just in a more "smaller government" way of thinking.

I am well aware left-libertarians are a rare breed in the USA. And yes, they are more open to social programs but on a decentralized level. The dogmatic positions of right-libertarians and their idolizing of Mises and Hayek were a turn off for me.


Example: I used to think Penn Gillette was some kind of hardcore RW-LP, but it is evident that he's closer to the center or even mildly LW Libertarian.
He has expressed a lot of flexibility but he backs up his reasoning rather well.
I could be wrong, though. What is your take on Gillette.

I used to watch Bulls*** and listen to Penn's podcast. Yeah, I would agree he has become less of a hard-right libertarian over the years. I heard a friend say he expressed some regret on a couple of their B.S. episodes, particularly the one where they defend Wal-Mart. I know when I was listening to his podcast during the election run of 2016 he said he'd reluctantly place a Clinton bumper sticker on his car if Trump won the GOP primary (and he did).

Anyway, I am not mocking LW-LP, just saying there are very few of you in comparison to your counterparts on the Right side of libertarianism.

Not denying it when it comes to mainstream politics, but if you pay attention to the leans of a lot of posters on DP you would notice quite a few have their lean as left-libertarian. Hey, at least I didn't complain about there not being an option for geo-mutualism. :mrgreen:
 
It would be fun to find out what alignment this site rests on as a whole. For the sake of this poll, we are going with my definitions.

alt-right: Generally pro economic freedom but very much socially authoritarian. Characterized by white nationalism, misogyny, anti lgbt rhetoric, and strong support for immigration restrictions.

conservative: basically your run of the mill republican. Believes in the principles of free markets, securing the borders, and in moral values. Conservatives don't tend to be as racist or vulgar as alt righters but they generally don't support affirmative action and take issue with open borders.

centrist: Basically in the center of the political spectrum. May support either party on a variety of issues.

progressive: The typical democrat. Supports more economic regulation but not to the extent of the social democrats. Also supports gay marriage and a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Basically Obama.

social democrat: Basically Bernie Sanders and Cortez. A supporter of raising the minimum wage, universal healthcare, and perhaps environmental regulations.

democratic socialist: A supporter of a democratic society where the means of production are collectivized.

libertarian: The government should be smaller than it is now. There should be less intervention in economics and in personal life.

communitarian: Takes the authoritarian sides of both parties. Supports a strong welfare state, limiting immigration, and perhaps encroaching on gay marriage. An example of a communitarian would be Marine La Pen.



Even though I am not a Democrat and call myself a progressive, I chose "social democrat" based on your descriptions.
 
Actually, libertarians are mostly of the left in every country except the United States. But if you want to take an Ameri-centric bias on this that is fine. ;)

Actually I was pointing out exactly that...namely the fact that in the USA, libertarians are mostly RW.

I am well aware left-libertarians are a rare breed in the USA. And yes, they are more open to social programs but on a decentralized level. The dogmatic positions of right-libertarians and their idolizing of Mises and Hayek were a turn off for me.

That and the idolizing of Ayn Rand.


Not denying it when it comes to mainstream politics, but if you pay attention to the leans of a lot of posters on DP you would notice quite a few have their lean as left-libertarian. Hey, at least I didn't complain about there not being an option for geo-mutualism. :mrgreen:

Sounds like it is worth another thread. I will look up the meaning of "geo-mutualism". You stumped the band on that one ;)
 
Between progressive and social democrat in I would think. Some issues I am more social democrat, others more progressive and other issues fiscal moderate. Increasing taxes isn't the end of the world as long as the taxes are spent wisely and the budget is balanced.

I wish all us liberals AND conservatives could be free to concentrate on being good tax watchdogs instead of being forced into some stupid death match about taxation being theft.
We have to face the fact of taxes being the price paid to live in a civilized society. But we could pool our resources and our talents to make government programs more sound, more ethical, and more efficient, so that we're not wasting good tax money and throwing good money after bad.
 
That and the idolizing of Ayn Rand.

Surprisingly, I didn't find many Randroids in my exposure to right-libertarianism. In fact, they were often mocked. But perhaps I was just around a unique crowd.




Sounds like it is worth another thread. I will look up the meaning of "geo-mutualism". You stumped the band on that one ;)

Obviously a hybridization of geoism/Georgism and mutualism. Basically, they believe in three major things: 1. public banking with loans at either no interest rate or an interest rate just high enough for upkeep. This would allow for: 2. Cooperatives to replace the corporate hierarchy and then 3. Land value tax to replace most other taxes to deter speculation and boom/bust cycles.
 
Surprisingly, I didn't find many Randroids in my exposure to right-libertarianism. In fact, they were often mocked. But perhaps I was just around a unique crowd.

Obviously a hybridization of geoism/Georgism and mutualism. Basically, they believe in three major things: 1. public banking with loans at either no interest rate or an interest rate just high enough for upkeep. This would allow for: 2. Cooperatives to replace the corporate hierarchy and then 3. Land value tax to replace most other taxes to deter speculation and boom/bust cycles.

A good example of a foaming at the mouth Randoid is the CEO of Stardock.
 
Extremely liberal.
 
Surprisingly, I didn't find many Randroids in my exposure to right-libertarianism. In fact, they were often mocked. But perhaps I was just around a unique crowd.






Obviously a hybridization of geoism/Georgism and mutualism. Basically, they believe in three major things: 1. public banking with loans at either no interest rate or an interest rate just high enough for upkeep. This would allow for: 2. Cooperatives to replace the corporate hierarchy and then 3. Land value tax to replace most other taxes to deter speculation and boom/bust cycles.

There are several different types of right wing Libertarians. You have the An-cap crowd with the non-aggression principle that are heavily influenced by Rand and Rothbard and you also have the classical Liberal crowd influenced by Friedman, Hayek, Mises, etc.

If I had to guess i would say that there are more in the classical Liberal bucket, but the Rand/Rothbard crowd are generally more vocal.
 
My own assessment would be as a pragmatic centrist in practice, guided by classical liberal idealism, fiscal conservatism, public commonwealth and a healthy dose of both ideological and religious agnosticism. Others call me politically schizophrenic and a pain in the arse.

Cheers.
Evilroddy
 
I don't consider myself a partisan or very ideological. I do believe in fiscal responsibility. By that I mean a balanced budget, not spending more than what one takes in. To get there I believe if one must cut spending, do it. If one must raise taxes, do it. But I usually advocate both. Few things irks me more than passing on our massive national debt to future generations and the unborn just so we today, can have everything we want without having to pay for it. Notice I didn't use the term fiscal conservative which I take today just means low taxes. Not lowering the national debt or balancing the budget. Fiscal conservatives are as much willing to pass on debt to the future generations and unborn as any liberal or progressive.

I'm fairly on the social liberal side when it comes to abortion, I believe it is up to the woman and no one else. Gay marriage, I'm fine with it. Let love decide, not government. Now I'm against reparations for slavery because no one alive today was ever a slave or even first generation born of a former slave. 7 or 8 generations has passed since the end of slavery here, no one alive is responsible for slavery and no one alive has ever experienced slavery. Let it be part of history.

I also believe that most issues can be solved with compromise and by playing the game of give and take. That is if both sides are willing. Which today, neither is. Granted, there will always be issues where no compromise is possible, but I think that would be less than 10 percent. I also get really angry at our two major parties for failing to try to solve some issues only because they are too valuable as a campaign issue or tool to fire up their base or to be used against their political opponents.

This is just a small part of my basics. Feel free to put me into any political class or group you may think I fall in.

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

IMO, you fall into the honest one! :thumbs: We all know ourselves best, so it's not always easy to listen to arguments that others offer as reasons for their decisions, but each of us usually has a reason for voting as we do whether it makes sense to anyone else or not!
 
It would be fun to find out what alignment this site rests on as a whole. For the sake of this poll, we are going with my definitions.

alt-right: Generally pro economic freedom but very much socially authoritarian. Characterized by white nationalism, misogyny, anti lgbt rhetoric, and strong support for immigration restrictions.

conservative: basically your run of the mill republican. Believes in the principles of free markets, securing the borders, and in moral values. Conservatives don't tend to be as racist or vulgar as alt righters but they generally don't support affirmative action and take issue with open borders.

centrist: Basically in the center of the political spectrum. May support either party on a variety of issues.

progressive: The typical democrat. Supports more economic regulation but not to the extent of the social democrats. Also supports gay marriage and a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Basically Obama.

social democrat: Basically Bernie Sanders and Cortez. A supporter of raising the minimum wage, universal healthcare, and perhaps environmental regulations.

democratic socialist: A supporter of a democratic society where the means of production are collectivized.

libertarian: The government should be smaller than it is now. There should be less intervention in economics and in personal life.

communitarian: Takes the authoritarian sides of both parties. Supports a strong welfare state, limiting immigration, and perhaps encroaching on gay marriage. An example of a communitarian would be Marine La Pen.

Not sure I agree with your definitions, but using them I'd say I'm a Progressive....with social democrat inclinations, especially environmental concerns. I believe government should advance the common good, or there is no need for it at all.
 
Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

IMO, you fall into the honest one! :thumbs: We all know ourselves best, so it's not always easy to listen to arguments that others offer as reasons for their decisions, but each of us usually has a reason for voting as we do whether it makes sense to anyone else or not!

Exactly Pol. Everyone of us has our own reasons for voting like we do. There important reasons to the person doing the voting. That should be respected. Not everyone thinks alike or is of the same political ideology. It's very diverse. If one believes in diversity, diversity not only includes different cultures, religion, race, but also differing political views, ideology and philosophy.
 
Social democrat with certain democratic socialist inclinations; I do believe there are certain industries that should be nationalized, due to the combination of perverse incentives (healthcare/medicine most notably), their essential nature or lack of market flexibility/elasticity for the good/service (like healthcare, essential utilities, etc), and/or excess barrier to entry/natural monopoly states (essential utilities).
 
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It would be fun to find out what alignment this site rests on as a whole. For the sake of this poll, we are going with my definitions.

alt-right: Generally pro economic freedom but very much socially authoritarian. Characterized by white nationalism, misogyny, anti lgbt rhetoric, and strong support for immigration restrictions.

conservative: basically your run of the mill republican. Believes in the principles of free markets, securing the borders, and in moral values. Conservatives don't tend to be as racist or vulgar as alt righters but they generally don't support affirmative action and take issue with open borders.

centrist: Basically in the center of the political spectrum. May support either party on a variety of issues.

progressive: The typical democrat. Supports more economic regulation but not to the extent of the social democrats. Also supports gay marriage and a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Basically Obama.

social democrat: Basically Bernie Sanders and Cortez. A supporter of raising the minimum wage, universal healthcare, and perhaps environmental regulations.

democratic socialist: A supporter of a democratic society where the means of production are collectivized.

libertarian: The government should be smaller than it is now. There should be less intervention in economics and in personal life.

communitarian: Takes the authoritarian sides of both parties. Supports a strong welfare state, limiting immigration, and perhaps encroaching on gay marriage. An example of a communitarian would be Marine La Pen.

I'm liberal.
 
It would be fun to find out what alignment this site rests on as a whole. For the sake of this poll, we are going with my definitions.

alt-right: Generally pro economic freedom but very much socially authoritarian. Characterized by white nationalism, misogyny, anti lgbt rhetoric, and strong support for immigration restrictions.

conservative: basically your run of the mill republican. Believes in the principles of free markets, securing the borders, and in moral values. Conservatives don't tend to be as racist or vulgar as alt righters but they generally don't support affirmative action and take issue with open borders.

centrist: Basically in the center of the political spectrum. May support either party on a variety of issues.

progressive: The typical democrat. Supports more economic regulation but not to the extent of the social democrats. Also supports gay marriage and a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Basically Obama.

social democrat: Basically Bernie Sanders and Cortez. A supporter of raising the minimum wage, universal healthcare, and perhaps environmental regulations.

democratic socialist: A supporter of a democratic society where the means of production are collectivized.

libertarian: The government should be smaller than it is now. There should be less intervention in economics and in personal life.

communitarian: Takes the authoritarian sides of both parties. Supports a strong welfare state, limiting immigration, and perhaps encroaching on gay marriage. An example of a communitarian would be Marine La Pen.

The banner on top of my screen here includes "Profile Statistics". If yours does too, click on it.
 
It is very interesting what the OPer left off: "liberal."

Progressives are not run of the mill Democrats. Most progressives are corporate fascists. Obviously they dare not call themselves fascists. That said, I agree that liberalism is 100% dead in the Democratic Party and has been replaced by International corporate fascism of exactly opposite stances on most issues from the traditional stances of the liberal Democratic Party.
 
It is very interesting what the OPer left off: "liberal."

Progressives are not run of the mill Democrats. Most progressives are corporate fascists. Obviously they dare not call themselves fascists. That said, I agree that liberalism is 100% dead in the Democratic Party and has been replaced by International corporate fascism of exactly opposite stances on most issues from the traditional stances of the liberal Democratic Party.

Define Corporate fascist
 
It would be fun to find out what alignment this site rests on as a whole. For the sake of this poll, we are going with my definitions.

alt-right: Generally pro economic freedom but very much socially authoritarian. Characterized by white nationalism, misogyny, anti lgbt rhetoric, and strong support for immigration restrictions.

conservative: basically your run of the mill republican. Believes in the principles of free markets, securing the borders, and in moral values. Conservatives don't tend to be as racist or vulgar as alt righters but they generally don't support affirmative action and take issue with open borders.

centrist: Basically in the center of the political spectrum. May support either party on a variety of issues.

progressive: The typical democrat. Supports more economic regulation but not to the extent of the social democrats. Also supports gay marriage and a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Basically Obama.

social democrat: Basically Bernie Sanders and Cortez. A supporter of raising the minimum wage, universal healthcare, and perhaps environmental regulations.

democratic socialist: A supporter of a democratic society where the means of production are collectivized.

libertarian: The government should be smaller than it is now. There should be less intervention in economics and in personal life.

communitarian: Takes the authoritarian sides of both parties. Supports a strong welfare state, limiting immigration, and perhaps encroaching on gay marriage. An example of a communitarian would be Marine La Pen.

Needed an option at the bottom of the poll for me that said "All of the above".
 
If I had to guess i would say that there are more in the classical Liberal bucket, but the Rand/Rothbard crowd are generally more vocal.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Randroids are very vocal/passionate so it often seems like there are a lot more of them than there really are.
 
It is very interesting what the OPer left off: "liberal."

Progressives are not run of the mill Democrats. Most progressives are corporate fascists. Obviously they dare not call themselves fascists. That said, I agree that liberalism is 100% dead in the Democratic Party and has been replaced by International corporate fascism of exactly opposite stances on most issues from the traditional stances of the liberal Democratic Party.

Ummm, what?
 
Perhaps I should say that they aren't as likely to be racist as alt righers.

Trump voters are not a monolithic group.
Lefties aren't either.

The thing Americans need to recognize (as in: NEVER FORGET for a moment) is that independents are now by far the largest voting block.
The two major parties are shrinking. The Republican Party has all but disappeared now.
It is the Trump Party now and it will continue to be the Trump Party even after Trump is no longer around or in office.

People who voted for Trump might be people who just didn't like Hillary, or despised her outright.
They might be people who didn't know much about him beyond his TV visibility, so they bought his pitch.
They might be ordinary Republicans, Trump is the Republican candidate so we should vote for him.
They might be conservative independents who decided that whether they liked him or not didn't matter, his supposed conservative bonafides did.

***********

And there are the fringe outliers on the alt-Right/far Right who instinctively perked up their ears at the sound of familiar authoritarian tropes that they identify with, and their instincts told them that their ship had finally come in.

That last group ARE indeed the bigoted, xenophobic paranoids who see the enemy everywhere. In the Fifties, the Red Scare was imprinted in the DNA of their parents and grandparents, and transferred to them on an almost cellular level. They see Communists under every bed, in the trash can, behind the fridge, on every streetcorner. They see ethnic people as fifth column invaders who are dead set on diluting their white Xtian identity values, miscegenating and interbreeding, and they interpret that as a sign that their tribe is under attack.

Those different people aren't like them, they are the "others" and as such they need to BE "othered" out of existence and the threat must be neutralized. These are also likely to be conspiracy minded people who see an embedded enemy plot in practically everything.
The art and music of the outsiders is surely a plot to indoctrinate the youth of America, the white Xtian youth, that is.
The styles and linguistic trends are an indicator that America is being threatened.

And most of all, these outsiders are almost universally regarded almost across the board by this last group as lazy, criminal, and anti-American.
At the very least, most or all of them are just trash, losers that no one wants, but even they are also a threat.
Trump is, for them, quite literally a white strongman astride a white steed, a superhero.
 
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