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Lean Question For Those Over 40

I was:

  • Total voters
    90
Phys251 said:
If only Al Franken had been a Republican, he'd still be in the Senate right now.
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He likely would have won re-election as a Democrat had he not resigned. It has since been learned from other Democrats there is no reason to resign in such scandals.
 
joko104 said:
He likely would have won re-election as a Democrat had he not resigned. It has since been learned from other Democrats there is no reason to resign in such scandals.
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Says a tRump supporter.
 
Cassandra said:
My Lord, this thread has certainly degenerated! Who the heck are you referring to as "they" in your sentence??

F.Y.I., insinuating that people with whom you disagree are the dastardly "other" is just the first step toward justifying violence. Forums like this are supposed to help inform and provide a window into other people's point of view.

Some people just don't get it.
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Who do you think came up with the Russian collusion witch hunt. The truth is simple. Hillary attacked Putin during his election. Being the leader he is he decided to do the same to her. Trump had nothing to do with it. Even Hillary said Putin was out to get her over what he believed was an attack on him by Hillary. That was until the democrats decided to blame Trump for it with this concocted witch hunt. Trump made a joke about the Russians could find the emails Hillary deleted to cover up her inept handling of classified documents. I am willing to bet the Russians have them if she was using a private server. Especially with someone like Putin as president of Russia. He was head of the KGB at one time as well. He most likely would take advantage of any inept handling of classified documents on a private server by our Secretary of State. Hell she might as well sent them to him.
 
Never changed from "not affiliated."
 
Moderate Right said:
Another thread got me wondering how many people have changed their lean or party affiliation since they were young. Please answer this poll without taking the Trump presidency into account. For purposes of this poll I want people to honestly vote based on how they felt when they were younger up to the point of 2016, BEFORE Trump won. This question is based on how you felt when you were around 20 through 20 years or more into that future. If you are younger than 40 please don't vote in the poll.
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Most young people are idealistic, myself included, and if we're political at all we tend to be swayed by the idealism of the left as opposed to the hard work of the right. The left seems to believe that all things are possible for all people and that the government's primary function is to supply all things to all people. So, naturally, lots of young people see government run by leftists as their ticket to a good life. Over time, however, most young people become realists once they see that not all people can get all things and that the really good things, materially, come to those who work extra hard to get them. And along the way, those who "get it" understand that those on the right are trying to get the government to concentrate on the basics and get out of your way while those on the left tend to envy individual success and use government to take some of that success away from you and give it to those who aren't as successful. And if you work hard in your own life, trying to achieve success, you begin to distrust and down right hate those who are trying to limit your success and/or take some of it away from you.

In effect, as you progress from young idealist to older realist, you either succeed as an independent individual and become more likely to lean to the right or you have less success as an individual and become more dependent on the "collective" to grant you success and more likely to lean to the left.

There are two small exceptions to this fairly simplistic rule - those who feel guilt associated with their enormous individual success and lean back to their idealistic left late in life and those who have little success but dream it can still happen and idealistically lean right because they still hope to succeed and don't want the government to take it from them.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Who do you think came up with the Russian collusion witch hunt. The truth is simple. Hillary attacked Putin during his election. Being the leader he is he decided to do the same to her. Trump had nothing to do with it. Even Hillary said Putin was out to get her over what he believed was an attack on him by Hillary. That was until the democrats decided to blame Trump for it with this concocted witch hunt. Trump made a joke about the Russians could find the emails Hillary deleted to cover up her inept handling of classified documents. I am willing to bet the Russians have them if she was using a private server. Especially with someone like Putin as president of Russia. He was head of the KGB at one time as well. He most likely would take advantage of any inept handling of classified documents on a private server by our Secretary of State. Hell she might as well sent them to him.
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Excuse me?- your inaccurate diatribe aside, you never actually responded to anything in my post.

I have come to realize how important is the attribute of listening. Even in forums like this-where the words are in black and white- people have difficulty 'listening'.
 
Cassandra said:
Excuse me?- your inaccurate diatribe aside, you never actually responded to anything in my post.

I have come to realize how important is the attribute of listening. Even in forums like this-where the words are in black and white- people have difficulty 'listening'.
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Since you cannot figure it out try replacing they with the democrats. You know the ones that created the collusion lie or witch hunt. Listening is not much good if you cannot comprehend.
 
SDET said:
I was a John Bircher until I noticed that their prediction of a Soviet America by 1988 didn't happen. I never supported the Democrats, but occasionally voted for things such as the Constitution Party. I also occasionally voted Libertarian. My latest change is that I have become much less interested in politics. I wonder if there really is a nickel's worth of difference between Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. They are both just firing up the base to crank up the ole fund raising machine.
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I voted the Constitution Party this past election in 2016. Senator Cruz was their candidate. I figured Sen. Cruz would make a terrible President, but he had an undeniable conservative voting track-record in the Senate. So I figured he was the best candidate to nominate a conservative Supreme Court justice to replace Justice Scalia. I also figured that the nation could survive a single term with Sen. Cruz as President, but it was absolutely essential to get a conservative on the court.

While I didn't vote for, or support Trump, I am not one of those "Never-Trumpers." I acknowledge that he won the election and is the lawfully elected President, and never for a second did I believe Russia had anything to do with Trump or the elections. That was entirely a scam by Hillary, Obama, the DNC, and their sycophants in the FBI and the media.

Back in the 1970s President Trump would be considered a "Rockefeller Republican." He certainly isn't conservative by any stretch of the imagination.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Since you cannot figure it out try replacing they with the democrats. You know the ones that created the collusion lie or witch hunt. Listening is not much good if you cannot comprehend.
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Since there is no uniformity of opinion in the democratic party, your use of "they" is just you flaming to get a rise out of people- its commonly practiced by the current P.O.T.U.S. but a red flag that indicates you really do not want to learn or understand a darn thing. To my knowledge this thread is not about Trump's obstruction of justice in the Russia investigation. You should express your opinions in a thread where you can receive some feedback- that you might better understand the issue.
 
Moderate Right said:
Another thread got me wondering how many people have changed their lean or party affiliation since they were young. Please answer this poll without taking the Trump presidency into account. For purposes of this poll I want people to honestly vote based on how they felt when they were younger up to the point of 2016, BEFORE Trump won. This question is based on how you felt when you were around 20 through 20 years or more into that future. If you are younger than 40 please don't vote in the poll.
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Republican to independent.
 
Risky Thicket said:
No poll.

I am a registered Independent. Most of my life I was a Republican. The GOP left me when it began to climb in bed with the religious right. It only became worse. Not long after Bush the Younger became President I said adios to the GOP and never looked back. The GOP sold its soul (not that either of the two ruling parties has one) to religionists and closeted dominionists. The GOP is now also the party of organized greed.

Clarification for the binary thinkers reading this post. My statement above regarding the GOP does not mean that I heart the Democratic Party. I do not. I do not belong to the Democratic Party. They are screwed up in their own way. However, if Donald Trump is the GOP candidate in 2020 I will vote for whomever the Democratic candidate may be.
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I too went from GOP to independent. Because it more suited my beliefs.
 
Cassandra said:
You should express your opinions in a thread where you can receive some feedback- that you might better understand the issue.
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I was talking to gulfman not you. He like my response to his post. Go get a life.
 
Fledermaus said:
I too went from GOP to independent. Because it more suited my beliefs.
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I would register as independent except their are no local independents for me to support. I switch back and forth between democrat and republican depending on who I want to help in the primaries. I hope that will change in the future.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I would register as independent except their are no local independents for me to support. I switch back and forth between democrat and republican depending on who I want to help in the primaries. I hope that will change in the future.
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California... We have dozens to choose from.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I would register as independent except their are no local independents for me to support. I switch back and forth between democrat and republican depending on who I want to help in the primaries. I hope that will change in the future.
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I am still registered as a Republican, but the last Republican candidate for President that I voted for was Bush41 in 1992. Since 1992 I've voted Conservative Party, Veterans Party, Libertarian Party, and in 2016 I voted for the Constitution Party candidate.

I do vote for some Republicans locally, but it depends on the candidate. For example, I have absolutely no problem voting for Republican Don Young's 24th term as House Representative. The Republican candidates the GOP has been nominating for President since 1992 have not been even remotely conservative. Bush and Trump are both RINOs, and so was Romney. McCain was probably the biggest RINO of them all.

If the GOP ever get around to nominating a conservative, then I may vote Republican again, but not until then.

One thing is absolutely certain, I could never vote for any anti-American Democrat. The Democratic Party is the greatest threat this nation has ever faced.
 
Growing up in a large northeastern city I registered as a democrat probably because my father was a union teamster. I never regretted that decision until Clinton came along and signed NAFTA into law and then I left the democratic party and became an independent. I switched back in 2016 to democratic so I could vote for bernie in the primaries. My state does not allow me to vote outside of my affiliation in primaries.

I don't care for republican policies and basically outside of a few votes here and there for republicans I will continue to support the democratic nominee.
 
bongsaway said:
Growing up in a large northeastern city I registered as a democrat probably because my father was a union teamster. I never regretted that decision until Clinton came along and signed NAFTA into law and then I left the democratic party and became an independent. I switched back in 2016 to democratic so I could vote for bernie in the primaries. My state does not allow me to vote outside of my affiliation in primaries.

I don't care for republican policies and basically outside of a few votes here and there for republicans I will continue to support the democratic nominee.
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It is not up to the State, it is up to the political party. In Alaska, for example, the Republican Party allows Republicans and Independents to vote in its Primaries. States cannot determine whether the party's primary is open or closed, or who is allowed to vote or who is not. Only the political party can make that determination. That was decided by the Supreme Court in California Democratic Party v. Jones, 530 U.S. 567 (2000).
 
Glitch said:
It is not up to the State, it is up to the political party. In Alaska, for example, the Republican Party allows Republicans and Independents to vote in its Primaries. States cannot determine whether the party's primary is open or closed, or who is allowed to vote or who is not. Only the political party can make that determination. That was decided by the Supreme Court in California Democratic Party v. Jones, 530 U.S. 567 (2000).
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Regardless, as an independent I could neither vote for a democrat or republican in the primaries so I switched back to being a democrat.
 
Cassandra said:
Since there is no uniformity of opinion in the democratic party, your use of "they" is just you flaming to get a rise out of people- its commonly practiced by the current P.O.T.U.S. but a red flag that indicates you really do not want to learn or understand a darn thing. To my knowledge this thread is not about Trump's obstruction of justice in the Russia investigation. You should express your opinions in a thread where you can receive some feedback- that you might better understand the issue.
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You wrote there is no uniformity of opinion in the Democratic party, and therefor not a they. Being grouped as Democrats(by you) is sufficient to refer to them conversationally as they. Just a tad confusing, isn't it? By the way, there is no uniformity of thought in either party. There are agreements of convenience, and closely aligned, but not identical thought. Very much like our own forum, wouldn't you agree?
Regards,
CP
 
CanadaJohn said:
Most young people are idealistic, myself included, and if we're political at all we tend to be swayed by the idealism of the left as opposed to the hard work of the right. The left seems to believe that all things are possible for all people and that the government's primary function is to supply all things to all people. So, naturally, lots of young people see government run by leftists as their ticket to a good life. Over time, however, most young people become realists once they see that not all people can get all things and that the really good things, materially, come to those who work extra hard to get them. And along the way, those who "get it" understand that those on the right are trying to get the government to concentrate on the basics and get out of your way while those on the left tend to envy individual success and use government to take some of that success away from you and give it to those who aren't as successful. And if you work hard in your own life, trying to achieve success, you begin to distrust and down right hate those who are trying to limit your success and/or take some of it away from you.

In effect, as you progress from young idealist to older realist, you either succeed as an independent individual and become more likely to lean to the right or you have less success as an individual and become more dependent on the "collective" to grant you success and more likely to lean to the left.

There are two small exceptions to this fairly simplistic rule - those who feel guilt associated with their enormous individual success and lean back to their idealistic left late in life and those who have little success but dream it can still happen and idealistically lean right because they still hope to succeed and don't want the government to take it from them.
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That pretty much says it all. As far as myself, when I was young I was a Democrat and felt the way you describe. My parents were poor. I was poor. I remember waiting for minimum wage to go up so that I could earn more money. Then one day it dawned on me that if my goal in life was to earn paltry money and wait for the minimum wage to go up in order to earn more, I would always be poor. So, I took the bull by the horns and improved my life. It came with sacrifices and hard work and sometimes even doing work without getting paid at all, just to learn. Sometimes it meant taking one step backward, putting me on a path so that I could take two steps forward. I worked hard, took on more and more responsibility, and relocated to other areas of the country a few times in order to improve myself. This all eventually led me to owning my own business. What makes democracies great is that if your only ambition is to be at the bottom of the totem pole then you are free to do so while if you want more you can reach for it. Everyone can get ahead if they want to but you have to want it. It isn't just going to be given to you. Young people more and more want instant gratification. They don't want to have to earn anything. Just give it to them and give it to them now. They don't believe in ladders.
 
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concernedpuma said:
You wrote there is no uniformity of opinion in the Democratic party, and therefor not a they. Being grouped as Democrats(by you) is sufficient to refer to them conversationally as they. Just a tad confusing, isn't it? By the way, there is no uniformity of thought in either party. There are agreements of convenience, and closely aligned, but not identical thought. Very much like our own forum, wouldn't you agree?
Regards,
CP
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Communication is really hard -(as anyone who has ever been married knows). Yeh, I realize that I am an old mother hen trying to persuade people to "behave" but I find these forums useful only when people make a good faith attempt to be specific. If you want to talk about the behavior of 'democrats' ( likewise 'republicans'), it is useful to distinguish who you mean- voters? the democratic leadership? a specific democratic strategist? I have seen on this thread, generalizations like "they" want "open borders", "they" worship Teddy Kennedy. In both cases and many more, I don't recognize the sentiments and know them NOT to be shared by the democratic voters that I know or most of the people on this forum. Isn't the whole idea of a political forum to familiarize oneself with the views of "real" people with whom you may disagree and maybe learn a thing or two along the way? Its time wasted to just mimic silly, inflammatory generalities disembodied from the assertions of real people.
The first time I ever engaged in an online forum, I was shocked by how rude and mean people behaved. I actually wept. I kept at it because I found a few, very few, people who debated in good faith and made me think.
 
Cassandra said:
Communication is really hard -(as anyone who has ever been married knows). Yeh, I realize that I am an old mother hen trying to persuade people to "behave" but I find these forums useful only when people make a good faith attempt to be specific. If you want to talk about the behavior of 'democrats' ( likewise 'republicans'), it is useful to distinguish who you mean- voters? the democratic leadership? a specific democratic strategist? I have seen on this thread, generalizations like "they" want "open borders", "they" worship Teddy Kennedy. In both cases and many more, I don't recognize the sentiments and know them NOT to be shared by the democratic voters that I know or most of the people on this forum. Isn't the whole idea of a political forum to familiarize oneself with the views of "real" people with whom you may disagree and maybe learn a thing or two along the way? Its time wasted to just mimic silly, inflammatory generalities disembodied from the assertions of real people.
The first time I ever engaged in an online forum, I was shocked by how rude and mean people behaved. I actually wept. I kept at it because I found a few, very few, people who debated in good faith and made me think.
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Thank you for your well thought out reply. You are right when you write that communication is fraught with misunderstanding. It is sometimes tempting to write what one thinks, without realizing that what you write will be received with a different attitude than your own, and taken wrong. Blanket statements for example, involve those the writer has in mind, but not necessarily known so by another reader.
I admit to sometimes giving in to the urge for snarky comments, but when called on it, I find myself having to apologize. This is not my forum and I have to be respectful and mindful of other opinion's, especially when I disagree.
Regards,
CP
 
Registered to post here.

It took me a while to figure out, but when I look back on history, it seems like a bad decision to be against progressive ideals.

It was progressive in the mid/ate 1800s for the republicans to end slavery.
It was progressive to enact child labor laws
It was progressive to establish social security
It was progressive to establish medicare
It was progressive to establish the EPA (thanks Nixon!)
It was progressive to treat non-white-people as actual people and acknowledge their right to vote
It was progressive to treat women as actual people and acknowledge their right to vote

There are some things that I didn't understand or think was OK 30 years ago that now I "get", and I might be ashamed if I could remember some of my thoughts or so-called-logic back then. With the benefit of hindsight and history I'm pretty comfortable swerving left and acknowledging that other people can see things that I can't. I'd hate to be a person looking back on my life and thinking "yeah, I voted for the perpetuation of ____" <- insert whatever currently-acknowledged horrific position, that used to be mainstream, as you choose.

That's why I changed sides. There are plenty other reasons that keep me here, but that was the reason I changed my views, however many years ago.
 
Skink said:
Registered to post here.

It took me a while to figure out, but when I look back on history, it seems like a bad decision to be against progressive ideals.

It was progressive in the mid/ate 1800s for the republicans to end slavery.
It was progressive to enact child labor laws
It was progressive to establish social security
It was progressive to establish medicare
It was progressive to establish the EPA (thanks Nixon!)
It was progressive to treat non-white-people as actual people and acknowledge their right to vote
It was progressive to treat women as actual people and acknowledge their right to vote

There are some things that I didn't understand or think was OK 30 years ago that now I "get", and I might be ashamed if I could remember some of my thoughts or so-called-logic back then. With the benefit of hindsight and history I'm pretty comfortable swerving left and acknowledging that other people can see things that I can't. I'd hate to be a person looking back on my life and thinking "yeah, I voted for the perpetuation of ____" <- insert whatever currently-acknowledged horrific position, that used to be mainstream, as you choose.

That's why I changed sides. There are plenty other reasons that keep me here, but that was the reason I changed my views, however many years ago.
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Hello Skink. I look forward to reading your ideas.
Regards,
CP
 
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