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POLL: Would terrorists be swayed by a "system of compassion?"

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Ouroboros

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Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”
 
Ouroboros said:
Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”
Click to expand...

She really is an idiot.
 
Compassion at what point in their lives and by whom?

Beyond that, how's invading their countries, seizing their natural resources, attempting to impose our values and religions on them, destroying the cities and villages, killing their women and children and innocents, destroying their historical sites and destroying their mosques working out for the U.S.?
 
Anything that de-radicalizes a radicalized man and prevents him from committing violence, I'm all for.
 
Ouroboros said:
Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”
Click to expand...

Depends on the terrorist, doesn't it?
 
Ouroboros said:
Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________
Click to expand...

I don't know anything of the cases to which she was referring but I would say that the place to start is to realize that the Abrahamic religions are extremely violent and those who wish to live by a fundamentalist reading of the Torah/ Bible/ Koran are likely to behave in ways that most of us find abhorrent. IT is very difficult to argue people out of BELIEF, even w compassion. The Saudis have been spreading a toxic, fundamentalist version of Islam for many years and the U.S. tolerates it because they have oil- and THAT is a very big problem. I don't know if Ilhan Omar has identified this original sin.
 
Ultimately, women win the war against terrorism. Each in their neighborhoods. Empowerment for hearts and minds.

In the meantime, everyone should kill as many terrorists as possible.
 
An instant death seems compassionate enough.
 
Ouroboros said:
Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”
Click to expand...

I don't think so either. I also think she is wrong about violence not being inherent to people. I think history proves that humans are the most violent or close to it of all the animals on earth.
 
Phys251 said:
Anything that de-radicalizes a radicalized man and prevents him from committing violence, I'm all for.
Click to expand...

A bullet to the head will do the job.
 
The OP did not provide a link. Two Pinocchios... for misleading context.

Back in 2016, Democratic Minnesota Rep. Ilhan Omar wrote a letter to a judge requesting a more lenient sentence on behalf of a Minnesota man who was accused of trying to join ISIS. Abdirahman Yasin Daud was one of two young men arrested in San Diego in April 2015. They were a part of a larger group of nine that was arrested for trying to join ISIS. Daud specifically was caught trying to buy fake passports in order to travel to Syria. Federal prosecutors requested Daud spend 30 years in prison followed by a lifetime of supervised release. Omar was one of the 13 people to write letters to Judge Michael Davis on Daud’s behalf.
Click to expand...

FACT CHECK: Did Rep. Ilhan Omar Call for Lighter Sentences for Would-Be ISIS Recruits?
 
POLL: Would terrorists be swayed by a "system of compassion?"

The OP is a nice shiny example of one of the problems we have with radicals. We treat them as caricatures. We’re supposed to look inside people we don’t know and decide how’d they react to compassion. Hell the OP doesn’t even bother to tell us what they did - the fact that they’re terrorists should be enough for us to conclude that they’re emotionless killing machines that deserve life plus 50 or maybe a bullet in the head.

Maybe they do. Who knows. But then maybe they don’t. People aren’t labels. And all people that you affix a label to don’t all act the same way.
 
Mycroft said:
A bullet to the head will do the job.
Click to expand...

Problem is that it creates more terrorists. "Americans summarily execute their prisoners! Look how evil they are!"

You want America to be the "good guys," you gotta act like it.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Compassion at what point in their lives and by whom?

Beyond that, how's invading their countries, seizing their natural resources, attempting to impose our values and religions on them, destroying the cities and villages, killing their women and children and innocents, destroying their historical sites and destroying their mosques working out for the U.S.?
Click to expand...

Yeah, we definitely shouldn’t have tried to keep the people of Somalia from starving decades ago. Clearly that was a mistake. US evillllllll :roll:

Which countries have we “attempted to impose our religion on”? What “values” have we so evillllly imposed? Democracy? Not machine gunning little girls for going to school?

Don’t forget the age old left wing myth about things all being for the oil/insert other nature resource here!
 
Tigerace117 said:
Yeah, we definitely shouldn’t have tried to keep the people of Somalia from starving decades ago. Clearly that was a mistake. US evillllllll :roll:

Which countries have we “attempted to impose our religion on”? What “values” have we so evillllly imposed? Democracy? Not machine gunning little girls for going to school?

Don’t forget the age old left wing myth about things all being for the oil/insert other nature resource here!
Click to expand...

So exactly how else would you explain the U.S. support for the toxic, violent Saudis?
 
Tigerace117 said:
Yeah, we definitely shouldn’t have tried to keep the people of Somalia from starving decades ago. Clearly that was a mistake. US evillllllll :roll:

Which countries have we “attempted to impose our religion on”? What “values” have we so evillllly imposed? Democracy? Not machine gunning little girls for going to school?

Don’t forget the age old left wing myth about things all being for the oil/insert other nature resource here!
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Cassandra said:
So exactly how else would you explain the U.S. support for the toxic, violent Saudis?
Click to expand...

Not all of the Saudis are toxic or violent. Just the Wahhabi Islamic sect.

Believe it or not, the present King of Saudia Arabia is a reformer, moving more to moderate some long held restrictions such as women driving and holding jobs, if I recall correctly.
 
Ouroboros said:
Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”
Click to expand...
Disagree with her although I can concede a few points. We'll beat terrorism by compassion and support for those being dominated by the terrorists, not the terrorists themselves. While I think 20 year olds are too easily misled, a good reason to 1) NOT drop the voting age to 16 and 2) raise the voting age to 25, they should still pay a penalty. If they haven't killed anyone, I can see 10 years as a sentence. If they have murdered people, then they should serve the same sentence as murderers.
 
Ouroboros said:
Would terrorists be swayed by a "system of compassion?"
Click to expand...

That is like asking if a TRumpet can be swayed by logic.

Some things are simply never gonna happen.
 
Cassandra said:
So exactly how else would you explain the U.S. support for the toxic, violent Saudis?
Click to expand...

Because they were slightly better than any of their toxic, violent neighbors.
 
For the most part, the West treats people better than the terrorists own homelands. No matter what is done going forward, there will always be people who want to kill other people.
 
Strange how much love she has for violent human garbage. I find it extremely hard to believe that she doesn't harbor animosity towards the United States as well as the Jewish people.
 
Anyone that thinks you can sway terrorists with compassion should take you ass there tomorrow and give it a whirl. Man...especially if you are a leftist, woman, gay, maybe trans? Oh ****...they would LOVE you.

Make sure someone documents your efforts for posterity sake.
 
Ouroboros said:
Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”
Click to expand...


Red:
She's right about that, so I agree with it.


Blue:
That, frustration over their inability to self-actualize, seems to have been a material motivator of a host of recent US terrorists.
 
Ouroboros said:
Ilhan Omar thinks so. I do not.

Here's the text of her Nov 8 letter pleading for leniency of nine convicted terrorists. Agree with her or disagree?

___________

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50- or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect [sic] change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people — it is the consequence of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.”
Click to expand...

It's the great liberal delusion: be nice to bad people and they will be nie to you. Of course the reality is that if you are nice to bad people they will think you are weak and that they can act with impunity.

Omar displays another leftist theme. No one is actually bad - except of course for 'white' men who are all rotten to the core. If bad things are done it always turns out to be our fault.
 
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