Is relocating illegal immigrants to sanctuary cities/states a good idea?

HumblePi said:

Wait a minute, back it up bud.....Stop right where you clearly said "Yes, Russia attempted interference in our election." Let me correct you right there. By claiming they 'attempted' isn't conclusive and there has been irrefutable and conclusive evidence that they indeed DID hack and are still interfering as we speak. And why is that? Partly to blame, and a big part, is Trump's continual ignoring it and not addressing it aggressively and in fact has denied it in Helsinki. "why would he?"

Whatever Hillary did or didn't didn't have a shred of influence on Russia hacking and their continued hacking to this very day.

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ObamacareFail said:

Sorry, sport. You are making up too much of that as you go along. Hard to even have a conversation with you. Foreign hacking of a DNC server is nasty business, however what eventually found it's way to wikileaks, whether by Russian hacking or other sources about Hillary was information about Hillary that most of us already knew and it was accurate, after all, it did come from a hack of John Podesta's emails. Right? And the Trump camp had nothing to do with it. And you appear strangely unconcerned about the HIllary camp purchasing a phony dossier and corrupting the FBI and our intelligence services into illegally using it to get warrants from the FISA Courts to spy on the Trump campaign. Stay tuned on that. That investigation is coming as soon as the IG turns in his report.

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HumblePi said:

Wait a minute, back it up bud.....Stop right where you clearly said "Yes, Russia attempted interference in our election." Let me correct you right there. By claiming they 'attempted' isn't conclusive and there has been irrefutable and conclusive evidence that they indeed DID hack and are still interfering as we speak. And why is that? Partly to blame, and a big part, is Trump's continual ignoring it and not addressing it aggressively and in fact has denied it in Helsinki. "why would he?"

Whatever Hillary did or didn't didn't have a shred of influence on Russia hacking and their continued hacking to this very day.

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Waddy said:

Didn't all that Russian interference occur during Obama's watch? Shouldn't Obama and his team been all over that? So how is Russian meddling then Trump's fault? Or did Obama decide to do nothing hoping to trap Trump up in it? Obviously, THAT didn't work out too well. Mueller vindicated Trump on all serious charges. Looks like the Strozak's "insurance policy" fell through. Some nasty dealings on the part of the Obama administration. Hope they get to the bottom of it.

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HumblePi said:

I think it would be wise of you to get educated on the timeline and incidents that have happened prior to the 2016 election. It all begins way back in 2013 and please do not jump ahead and rush to any conclusions until you've read the entire timeline.

The Russia probe: A timeline from Moscow to Mueller - ABC News

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Waddy said:

I don't get your point, if there is one. That timeline puts the responsibility for stopping Russian intervention squarely on Obama's shoulders. Most of it happened prior to the change of power. Best you read it again to educate yourself, if it's possible for you to do that.

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HumblePi said:

"nasty business".....seriously that's all you consider Russia's attempts to modify, change, and interject themselves and their own agenda into our United States democratic election?? "nasty business" ???

wow, just wow

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Waddy said:

I don't get your point, if there is one. That timeline puts the responsibility for stopping Russian intervention squarely on Obama's shoulders. Most of it happened prior to the change of power. Best you read it again to educate yourself, if it's possible for you to do that.

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ObamacareFail said:

It is strange how the lad is suddenly outraged about Russian attempts at interfering in elections, considering that they have been doing such since the Bolshevik Revolution.

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X Factor said:

Serious question, wouldn’t sanctuary cities be the safest/best place for them? How is it not a win win?

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Waddy said:

If you are referring to the many, many times we have interfered in Russian elections and politics, then yes, it is difficult for me to get outraged at the Russians for doing the same thing we routinely do everywhere in the world; and have done so over many decades.

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americanwoman said:

No, it's not. I don't like the idea of using people as tools of political revenge.

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concernedpuma said:

Waddy, it would be helpful to know your definition of many. My own idea be one, a couple, a few, then perhaps many. Where does many fit into that scenario? Can you at least provide one or more times(proven) that we have attempted to interfere with a Russian election? Better yet, other than the in play revolution, even one time the United States has done anything like that?
Regards,
CP

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What many Russians, but few Americans, know is that 20 years before Russia tried to swing an American presidential election, America tried to swing a presidential election in Russia. The year was 1996. Boris Yeltsin was seeking a second term, and Bill Clinton desperately wanted to help. “I want this guy to win so bad,” he told Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott, “it hurts.” ..... So the Clinton administration sprang into action. It lobbied the International Monetary Fund to give Russia a $10 billion loan, some of which Yeltsin distributed to woo voters. Upon arriving in a given city, he often announced, “My pockets are full.” ....Three American political consultants—including Richard Dresner, a veteran of Clinton’s campaigns in Arkansas—went to work on Yeltsin’s election bid. ......Thomas Graham, who served as the chief political analyst at the U.S. embassy in Moscow during the campaign, later conceded that Clinton officials knew the election wasn’t truly fair. “This was a classic case,” he admitted, “of the ends justifying the means.”

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In the period from 1917 to 1933, such interference was extreme on both sides. In 1918, President Woodrow Wilson sent approximately 8,000 US troops to Siberia to fight against the “Reds” in the Russian Civil War. ...... During the 1990s, under the banner of “democracy promotion,” there was a virtual American political invasion of Russia. Washington openly supported, politically and financially, the pro-American faction in Russian politics, as did American mainstream media coverage. US government and foundation funding went to desirable Russian NGOs. And the Clinton administration lent ample support, again political and financial, to President Boris Yeltsin’s desperate and ultimately successful reelection .....Until more restrictive Russian laws were passed, US funding continued to go to Russian media and NGOs perceived to be in US interests. Hillary Clinton felt free in 2011 to publicly criticize Russian elections, and, the same year, then–Vice President Joseph Biden, while visiting Moscow, advised Putin not to return to the presidency. (Imagine Putin today advising Biden as to whether or not to seek the US presidency.)

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One study indicated that the country intervening in most foreign elections is the United States with 81 interventions, followed by Russia (including the former Soviet Union) with 36 interventions from 1946 to 2000 - an average of once in every nine competitive elections.[2][3][4][5]

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Waddy said:

Here's a little light reading for you. And thanks for asking that question in a civil manner. As for the US meddling in Russia, we have a long history of direct and indirect meddling, the type we would NEVER allow.



The U.S. Has a Long History of Election Meddling - The Atlantic



The Long History of US-Russian ‘Meddling’ | The Nation

And we are the global leader in the meddling in the elections of foreign nations. There isn't even a close second. This WIKI page lists just the elections we have interfered with; it does not count the many, many regime changes, assassinations, and other forms of meddling.



Foreign electoral intervention - Wikipedia

I gave you snippets here; read the full articles. Our hands are FAR from clean on this. We are being quite hypocritical.

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Waddy said:

Here's a little light reading for you. And thanks for asking that question in a civil manner. As for the US meddling in Russia, we have a long history of direct and indirect meddling, the type we would NEVER allow.



The U.S. Has a Long History of Election Meddling - The Atlantic



The Long History of US-Russian ‘Meddling’ | The Nation

And we are the global leader in the meddling in the elections of foreign nations. There isn't even a close second. This WIKI page lists just the elections we have interfered with; it does not count the many, many regime changes, assassinations, and other forms of meddling.



Foreign electoral intervention - Wikipedia

I gave you snippets here; read the full articles. Our hands are FAR from clean on this. We are being quite hypocritical.

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X Factor said:

Attaching poll.

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washunut said:

Best to send people where they will be welcomed.

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concernedpuma said:

Well thought out and presented. Thank you.
I guess, all considered, It is my belief that the United States has on occasion been ham handed. I guess I am either a naïve believer in the Republic of the United States, or right in m belief that as a nation, we have never wanted less for others, than we have. That is certainly my wish and perceived view, from then to now. No matter how one describes those times. I certainly would concede that we were wrong sometimes, but not selfishly so. it is my hope that forgiveness and understanding would be proffered to a nation that wanted the same for others that we enjoy.
Regards,
CP

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Waddy said:

I also love this country. I think it is the best thing to ever happen to humanity. But I'm also realistic about some of the things we've done. Many of those interventions were for good and noble reasons. But many of them were about corporate greed, like United Fruit in South America, or for the benefit of other special interests. We deposed a democratically elected leader in Iran and installed the Shah in power over Iranian oil. We created Iran as an enemy. Now they really are an enemy, and we have to oppose them. We created that monster. We have gone to great lengths to interfere with Russian elections. Decades of interference. On this issue to get all tweaked up about Russian interference in our elections is very hypocritical.

There was a very good documentary a while back called "The Politics of Food". Our foreign aid to third world countries usually has a stipulation that they spend much of that money with American businesses, like farming equipment. So they buy all this high tech equipment, push small farmers out, and raise crops for export so they can pay the loans back. Which leaves thousands of small farmers without work and not enough to eat. This has been a pattern in Africa (peanuts especially) and South America. But it makes the ruling classes in those countries wealthy and generates big profits for American corporations. And you wonder why we have people showing up at the border.

I'm as conservative as they come, and this stuff happens under ALL administrations, but there are good reasons why we are disliked in some places.

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concernedpuma said:

I enjoy corresponding with you. You are clear eyed and not all preachy. That is to be admired.

I have to agree that we have sometimes acted with only our interest in mind. Not opposing Hitler until we were bombed by Japan is probably a good example of what you write. I would only offer that there is selfish, and selfless. I don't think we ought enter any trade agreement selflessly. I doubt you do either. I am sure we insisted that countries we advanced money as aid, buy their farm equipment from us. That only makes sense.
I sometimes think as a country, we are too masochistic. I see your point about Iran and that is another thing we short sighted. But, I also remember that we have for many years contributed untold monies to the less fortunate or calamity stricken nations of the world, with no expectation of return. We surely aren't perfect, no way. I do think that folks like you and others like you are wise and learned enough to call out any new greed driven venture like those when they occur. I, too, would like to be considered among that crew.
Regards,
CP

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Waddy said:

I totally agree with you on trade issues. After WWll we were the last man standing. Almost everyone else needed preferential trade deals, and the USA to carry the bulk of financial commitments because the rest of the world was broke. So we made them all some good trade deals, we paid for most of NATO, the UN and their defense costs. Newly liberated Third World countries needed favorable trade deals. Japan needed rebuilding. We did that heavy lifting, often at the expense of our own development and paid for by American taxpayers. It wasn't all altruistic; we knew that nations that traded together grew interdependent and seldom attacked each other. It also allowed us to promote democracy around the globe. Democracies seldom start wars.

Today circumstances have changed; these countries; China, Japan, Canada, Australia, India, Brazil, Mexico, etc. are now competitors. They should pay for their own defense, take in the refugees in their own regions, bring their environmental (EPA), labor laws (OSHA), consumer product liability laws, and intellectual copyright practices up to par with the USA. We should take an American-centric stance on trade deals; less concerned with their welfare and more concerned with the American worker and investor.

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