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The alternative to abolishing the Electoral College

Is expanding the House the best way to fix the Electoral College?


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Greenbeard

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Most folks honestly appraising our current situation can admit that the Electoral College system is broken. It doesn't serve any discernable purpose at present, and most arguments for it these days are based on retconned ahistorical accounts of its rationale.

The reality is that it doesn't work at all like the system envisioned in Federalist No. 68 (indeed, it works in the exact opposite fashion) and both the nation and electorate today look nothing like that of 1788. Indeed, the primary selling point of the Electoral College in 1787, that it allowed predominantly southern states to count their non-voting enslaved populations toward their electoral representation (at a 3/5 discount, of course) was negated by the 13th and 15th amendments.

James "Father of the Constitution" Madison, who favored a popular vote for presidents at the Constitutional Convention, was convinced by the early 1820s that the Electoral College was broken, famously arguing in an 1823 letter to George Hay that a constitutional amendment requiring that Electors be chosen by Congressional districts, not states, was warranted.

But no action has ever been taken and we've drifted into the current absurd status quo, where the EC functions as a vestigial organ of a bygone era, yet functions nothing like the original vision. So now we've got states trying to take some action, with the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact 89 electoral votes shy of taking effect (following swing state Colorado's recent passage).

But perhaps there's an easier, though less satisfying, way.

Those who advocate straight up abolishment of the Electoral College face a high hurdle: a Constitutional amendment is required.

Those pinning their hopes on the NPVIC face a lower but still substantial hurdle: a likely need for Congressional approval.

How about an alternative approach? Like expanding the size of the House of Representatives, last updated in 1911 to accommodate population growth, to provide more adequate representation to American citizens? A Rep today represents ~750K constituents, which is both enormous and unusual in the world. We're a big country, we need a big House to make sure the people's voice is being heard. Probably a much bigger House, given population growth since 1911. Perhaps on the order of 1,600 districts.

Yes, it's the same hurdle as the NPVIC, in that legislation needs to be passed through Congress. But it's arguably less objectionable legislation, as its primary purpose is to increase the average American's voice and representation in Congress. The happy side effect, given that the number of presidential electors is equal to Reps + Senators, is that the Electoral College also becomes more representative of the people's voice. The California : Wyoming elector ratio grows in a proportionally appropriate way as California's House delegation, and thus number of electoral votes, grows. The Electoral College remains a roundabout and dumb system, but this way both it and our legislative representation more accurately represent what voters actually want. An area where our current system falls woefully short on all fronts.

Uncapping House representation has other happy effects, as well, like lowering the stakes of gerrymandering when states are no longer playing with a vast undercount of districts that compel state legislators to cram all of the opposition into 1-3 densely packed districts.

Throw Puerto Rico and/or D.C. statehood in the mix and we're cooking with gas now.

Anyway, this seems like a much easier way to fix not only the EC but multiple facets of the American electoral system. Who's sold?
 
It doesn't matter. The Dems already have a solution. They just need enough states to sign on and the electoral college will be rendered useless.

btw, those states that sign on...Dem controlled states...will be electing Presidents. Nobody else's vote will matter.

The Dems are smart that way, eh?
 
It doesn't matter. The Dems already have a solution. They just need enough states to sign on and the electoral college will be rendered useless.

btw, those states that sign on...Dem controlled states...will be electing Presidents. Nobody else's vote will matter.

Indeed, more people's votes should matter. But that's the argument for straight up eliminating the EC. Expanding the House just makes more people's votes matter than the status quo. Which you've inexplicably voted for.
 
Indeed, more people's votes should matter. But that's the argument for straight up eliminating the EC. Expanding the House just makes more people's votes matter than the status quo. Which you've inexplicably voted for.

Everyone's vote matters under the electoral college system.
 
i'm not necessarily against the proposal, but i'm for eliminating the electoral college first. i understand that this is not going to happen.
 
Most folks honestly appraising our current situation can admit that the Electoral College system is broken. It doesn't serve any discernable purpose at present, and most arguments for it these days are based on retconned ahistorical accounts of its rationale.

The reality is that it doesn't work at all like the system envisioned in Federalist No. 68 (indeed, it works in the exact opposite fashion) and both the nation and electorate today look nothing like that of 1788. Indeed, the primary selling point of the Electoral College in 1787, that it allowed predominantly southern states to count their non-voting enslaved populations toward their electoral representation (at a 3/5 discount, of course) was negated by the 13th and 15th amendments.

James "Father of the Constitution" Madison, who favored a popular vote for presidents at the Constitutional Convention, was convinced by the early 1820s that the Electoral College was broken, famously arguing in an 1823 letter to George Hay that a constitutional amendment requiring that Electors be chosen by Congressional districts, not states, was warranted.

But no action has ever been taken and we've drifted into the current absurd status quo, where the EC functions as a vestigial organ of a bygone era, yet functions nothing like the original vision. So now we've got states trying to take some action, with the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact 89 electoral votes shy of taking effect (following swing state Colorado's recent passage).

But perhaps there's an easier, though less satisfying, way.

Those who advocate straight up abolishment of the Electoral College face a high hurdle: a Constitutional amendment is required.

Those pinning their hopes on the NPVIC face a lower but still substantial hurdle: a likely need for Congressional approval.

How about an alternative approach? Like expanding the size of the House of Representatives, last updated in 1911 to accommodate population growth, to provide more adequate representation to American citizens? A Rep today represents ~750K constituents, which is both enormous and unusual in the world. We're a big country, we need a big House to make sure the people's voice is being heard. Probably a much bigger House, given population growth since 1911. Perhaps on the order of 1,600 districts.

Yes, it's the same hurdle as the NPVIC, in that legislation needs to be passed through Congress. But it's arguably less objectionable legislation, as its primary purpose is to increase the average American's voice and representation in Congress. The happy side effect, given that the number of presidential electors is equal to Reps + Senators, is that the Electoral College also becomes more representative of the people's voice. The California : Wyoming elector ratio grows in a proportionally appropriate way as California's House delegation, and thus number of electoral votes, grows. The Electoral College remains a roundabout and dumb system, but this way both it and our legislative representation more accurately represent what voters actually want. An area where our current system falls woefully short on all fronts.

Uncapping House representation has other happy effects, as well, like lowering the stakes of gerrymandering when states are no longer playing with a vast undercount of districts that compel state legislators to cram all of the opposition into 1-3 densely packed districts.

Throw Puerto Rico and/or D.C. statehood in the mix and we're cooking with gas now.

Anyway, this seems like a much easier way to fix not only the EC but multiple facets of the American electoral system. Who's sold?

Simply divide all the EC votes based on the popular vote within the state, meaning if a candidate gets 60% of the popular vote they get 60% of the EC votes, the rest go to the other candidate(s).
 
Get rid of California and New York and then do what you want with the electoral college.
 
Get rid of California and New York and then do what you want with the electoral college.

That won't work. Without those states the Dems won't be able to cheat...I mean win...another Presidential election.
 
Simply divide all the EC votes based on the popular vote within the state, meaning if a candidate gets 60% of the popular vote they get 60% of the EC votes, the rest go to the other candidate(s).

Compelling that (which is broadly similar to Madison's proposal, assuming a House delegation that kept up with population growth) would require a Constitutional amendment. If you're going to go that far, might as well get rid of that dumb system altogether.
 
Everyone's vote matters under the electoral college system.

Not if you live outside Florida, Ohio, or other swing states. Additionally, depending on the state you live in your vote can mean magnitudes less than other states. How exactly does everyone's vote matter?
 
It doesn't matter. The Dems already have a solution. They just need enough states to sign on and the electoral college will be rendered useless.

btw, those states that sign on...Dem controlled states...will be electing Presidents. Nobody else's vote will matter.

The Dems are smart that way, eh?

Your vote should not carry more weight than mine. (Especially yous.) How wrong can wrong be?
 
Your vote should not carry more weight than mine. (Especially yous.) How wrong can wrong be?

If you aren't a citizen of my state then your vote should not carry the same weight mine does...but both of our votes carry the same weight as every other citizen in our own respective states.
 
And within my nation, not equally. Which, given that we're talking about a national office, sort of matters.

That's because we are a set of "United States".

Sorry, but if you want to control the vote, you'll have to do it the dishonest way the Dems are doing it now.

Be happy.
 
That's because we are a set of "United States".

Sorry, but if you want to control the vote, you'll have to do it the dishonest way the Dems are doing it now.

Be happy.

What part of "United States" are you suggesting requires devaluing some citizens' votes relative to others?
 
Get rid of 18% of the population? For what purpose?

I just think the US would be a better place. Let them become their own countries so they can stop destroying ours.
 
Let me clarify something. Are you really trying to get rid of the Electoral College because there is an actual inherent FLAW that you equate. OR are you mad that it did NOT work in your favor and seemingly doesnt in regards to POPULAR vote vs Electoral College.


Im very new to this, so bear with me. But in its very basic thought. The electoral college was designed to balance out the popular vote SHOULD one Majority state carry such a majority that it would TIP the balance of the OTHER remaining states

Small opposing states like Alaska, Delware, DC, Montana, North Dakoata, South Dakota, Vermont, Wyoming that have smaller populaces. WOULD easily drowned out or ECLIPSED.

the 2016 Elections was a PERFECT example of how and why the Electoral college was implemented. AS a single MAJORITY State should NOT dictate the will of the nation


HRC won California but a whopping 4,269,978 votes. OVER whelming That of course California having the HIGHEST population. This means JUST California Alone, had more popular votes than, Wyoming, Vermont, DC, Alaska, North Dakota, South Dakota COMBINED.

6 of the 50 states would be disregarded. If it was purely on the popular vote of ONE state.


With that . the Final over ALL popular vote was 2,864,903 for HRC, meaning a NET loss in regards to the other states of 1,405,075 votes.

SHE WON The Popular vote likely due to 1 state and 1 state Alone (not really but you get the net positive point) . Should that ONE state dictate the NATION's will? Due to its OVERWHELMING popular vote?

THAT again is the checks and balance of the EC? That seems fair.

OK the basics out of the way..... the revamp and redistribution.

1) Surely with the nation growing. Populations changing there should be consideration taken.
2) Concerns of Voter Fraud is where my hesitation to changing the basis of the EC
3) Popular Vote can dictate the EC distribution, BUT again going back to voter Fraud.
4) The Recent Census question update to validate POPULATION so as to revise the EC is LEGIT. BUT somehow its become a constitutional issue.
5) PERIOD, LEGAL US citizen should get a vote. Find out ALL legal US citizens, calculate the Fair EC and go forward. BUT the only way to know how many US citizens? Gotta ASK the damn questions....


Alas those that broke the law live in fear... those that done respect the law continue to break the law. THE EC was a balance much like the 3-Co Equal branches of the Governments. Same with the Constitution, one hellava document.... But because people will never be happy because if it does NOT go their way they cry foul......

Thats life
 
Getting rid of the EC is never going to happen. Get over it.
 
Im very new to this, so bear with me. But in its very basic thought. The electoral college was designed to balance out the popular vote SHOULD one Majority state carry such a majority that it would TIP the balance of the OTHER remaining states

Small opposing states like Alaska, Delware, DC, Montana, North Dakoata, South Dakota, Vermont, Wyoming that have smaller populaces. WOULD easily drowned out or ECLIPSED.

You do seem new to this. The Electoral College wasn't at all designed to do what you're suggesting. It was designed to give states like the largest state Virginia (which was already neck-and-neck with Pennsylvania in terms of its free adult male population) a leg up by giving them representation for 3/5 of their reprehensibly enormous slave populations in presidential elections.

1790 Census
15gp3yu.jpg


Which state produced seven of the first eleven presidents? Virginia.

How many times do I need to say "retconned, ahistorical" nonsense to describe contemporary rationalizations of the EC?
 
If you aren't a citizen of my state then your vote should not carry the same weight mine does...but both of our votes carry the same weight as every other citizen in our own respective states.

As one country, it should not be that way.

Can you inmagine you Trumpets if it were reversed? Talk about victimization. Your heads would explode.
 
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