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What Should Happen to the College Students Whose Parents Bribed Their Way In?

Felis Leo

Felis Leo

Moral clarity is needed
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Recently the largest admissions scandal in modern history broke, in which 50 people have been indicted in Federal Court for bribery and fraud in order to have their children admitted into some of the most elite universities in the country (and the world, for that matter). To me this is beyond outrageous, and it seems to destroy the value of these degrees. It destroys the value of the degrees for the kids who basically spent most of their childhoods and adolescence preparing and working their fingers to the bone to study, test, do countless extracurricular activities in order get into these universities. It also destroys the value of the degrees for folks from wealthy families where we do not know whether they got these degrees due to their merit, or because mommy and daddy paid through the nose to have little Bobby or Clarissa admitted into Yale.

So here is the question to the folks here: What, if anything should be done against the students admitted under the auspices of bribery and fraud to protect the integrity of the university system? Should anything be done to protect the integrity of the university system beyond that which is already being done to the parents, counselors and third-party procurers? I have given some suggestions. Please feel free to write your suggestions.

EDIT: Stupid character limitation and time limit rules.

Here were the options I was going to post:

1. Expel them. They got in under false pretenses and should not profit by their parents cheating the system and being placed ahead of people who worked and studied hard to be admitted into university.
2. Expel them. Allowing them to remain undermines the public perception of the value of higher education degrees through merit.
3. Nothing. Blame the parents not their children. How could these poor children have known that they were not bright enough to make it into Harvard and Yale?
4. Nothing. Leave them in. This just helps to prove top-notch universities are just an overpriced social-networking scam and not places of higher learning for our best and brightest.
5. Nothing. Why bother? The system is utterly corrupt. If the rich cannot bribe their children’s way in in this manner, they’ll just figure something else out.
6. Do individual evaluations to see if they are actually worthy of remaining at the university (but make sure they are not the same proctors that they bribed before of course).
7. I cannot decide.
8. Other.
 
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Felis Leo said:
Recently the largest admissions scandal in modern history broke, in which 50 people have been indicted in Federal Court for bribery and fraud in order to have their children admitted into some of the most elite universities in the country (and the world, for that matter). To me this is beyond outrageous, and it seems to destroy the value of these degrees. It destroys the value of the degrees for the kids who basically spent most of their childhoods and adolescence preparing and working their fingers to the bone to study, test, do countless extracurricular activities in order get into these universities. It also destroys the value of the degrees for folks from wealthy families where we do not know whether they got these degrees due to their merit, or because mommy and daddy paid through the nose to have little Bobby or Clarissa admitted into Yale.

So here is the question to the folks here: What, if anything should be done against the students admitted under the auspices of bribery and fraud to protect the integrity of the university system? Should anything be done to protect the integrity of the university system beyond that which is already being done to the parents, counselors and third-party procurers? I have given some suggestions. Please feel free to write your suggestions.
Click to expand...

1. Make them retake every entrance exam. Today. No prep time. Pass or fail.
2. Any sports relate entry. Out unless they are active competing in that sport.
 
They should be expelled and the the parents should be prosecuted.
 
They have to be given the boot. They got in under false pretenses that they likely knew about.
 
Felis Leo said:
Recently the largest admissions scandal in modern history broke, in which 50 people have been indicted in Federal Court for bribery and fraud in order to have their children admitted into some of the most elite universities in the country (and the world, for that matter). To me this is beyond outrageous, and it seems to destroy the value of these degrees. It destroys the value of the degrees for the kids who basically spent most of their childhoods and adolescence preparing and working their fingers to the bone to study, test, do countless extracurricular activities in order get into these universities. It also destroys the value of the degrees for folks from wealthy families where we do not know whether they got these degrees due to their merit, or because mommy and daddy paid through the nose to have little Bobby or Clarissa admitted into Yale.

So here is the question to the folks here: What, if anything should be done against the students admitted under the auspices of bribery and fraud to protect the integrity of the university system? Should anything be done to protect the integrity of the university system beyond that which is already being done to the parents, counselors and third-party procurers? I have given some suggestions. Please feel free to write your suggestions.

EDIT: Stupid character limitation and time limit rules.

Here were the options I was going to post:

1. Expel them. They got in under false pretenses and should not profit by their parents cheating the system and being placed ahead of people who worked and studied hard to be admitted into university.
2. Expel them. Allowing them to remain undermines the public perception of the value of higher education degrees through merit.
3. Nothing. Blame the parents not their children. How could these poor children have known that they were not bright enough to make it into Harvard and Yale?
4. Nothing. Leave them in. This just helps to prove top-notch universities are just an overpriced social-networking scam and not places of higher learning for our best and brightest.
5. Do individual evaluations to see if they are actually worthy of remaining at the university (but make sure they are not the same proctors that they bribed before of course).
6. Nothing. Why bother? The system is utterly corrupt. If the rich cannot bribe their children’s way in in this manner, they’ll just figure something else out.
7. I cannot decide.
8. Other.
Click to expand...

8. Other, getting accepted to a college is not a guarantee of a degree, simply allowing an under performing student in, happens all the time.
If they received received fraudulent scholarships, they should loose those, but if they can pay the tuition like anyone else, they should be allowed to stay.
I was on a committee that reviewed college applications for the science and engineering programs at the university where I worked.
I would argue with the more straight academic types that a 30 year old who had low grades in collage when they were 18,
should be at least allowed to try. The thought being that at 30, they may have a bit more motivation than they had at 18.
If someone who has been admitted,even by questionable means not of their doing,
performs at the level required of that university, then they should be allowed to continue.
If the student would not have been admitted under the normal criteria, yet is doing above average, perhaps the university
should evaluate their admission criteria.
 
Kick them out, but they can try to get back in honestly.
 
Bucky said:
Even if those students are doing well? That seems extreme and dangerous.
Click to expand...

The students used improper methods to gain admission and they knew the penalty for such behavior.
 
Expel them and prosecute the parents.
 
Fledermaus said:
I will not punish the children wholesale. Let them prove their worth.

And hammer the parents. They get no mercy.
Click to expand...

The kids aren't children, they are adults and they got where they are via fraud. I dont think they should be allowed to stay nor do I understand why they would want to stay. They have been outed as frauds and should be too embarrassed to show their faces on campus.
 
Fletch said:
They have to be given the boot. They got in under false pretenses that they likely knew about.
Click to expand...

Most apparently did not. Some did, though. One is Isabelle Henriquez, who gloated about the cheating:

Although many of the parents took great steps to avoid letting their children know that their test scores and admissions letter had been bought and paid for—“it’s no accident there are no students charged,” Lelling noted—there was at least one exception.

According to the complaint, as a student at a pricey Catholic prep school, Isabelle was an active and knowing participant in the cheating scheme that resulted in her acceptance at Georgetown. [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]https://www.thedailybeast.com/georgetown-rich-kid-isabelle-henriquez-gloated-after-allegedly-cheating-sats[/FONT]
 
Fletch said:
The kids aren't children, they are adults and they got where they are via fraud. I dont think they should be allowed to stay nor do I understand why they would want to stay. They have been outed as frauds and should be too embarrassed to show their faces on campus.
Click to expand...

Let the adults prove their worth. Retake all the exams. Now. No prep. No coaching. I suspect the pass rate will be abysmal.

Those that are ashamed and leave of their own volition... So be it.
 
haymarket said:
The students used improper methods to gain admission and they knew the penalty for such behavior.
Click to expand...

You touch on one of the most important issues, haymarket: the admission.

Arguably the most difficult part of college, especially the elite schools, is not the actual academic studies and remaining in school. While those can be challenging, they are nothing compared to the admissions process itself. Honest students spend years building their CV, doing extracurricular activities, studying morning noon and night for the SATs, taking advanced placement courses, and so many other things just to prove themselves worthy of being admitted. Whether by encouragement of their parents or self-determination, many of these poor, middle class, and honest wealthy kids have practically no childhood or adolescence to speak of that does not involve preparation of college admissions.

But these kids whose parents bribed their way in? They were allowed in on the basis of money and lies. And they cheated and were placed ahead of those young men and women who did everything correctly and were honest, but were robbed of a place in these elite schools. So I agree with you completely. For there to be any justice, and for there to be any integrity in either the admissions process or degrees themselves, they must be expelled, and their parents must be prosecuted.
 
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haymarket said:
The students used improper methods to gain admission and they knew the penalty for such behavior.
Click to expand...
It does not sound like the "students" used improper methods, but rather that improper methods were used without their knowledge.
This of it like the dreamers, brought the US illegally by their parents, without their knowledge or consent.
 
I have no sympathy for cheaters, but the only reason this guy was nailed was because he operated outside the old boys network.

Wealthy people have been buying their kids way into college since day 1. It usually takes the form of a large "donation" or buying the college new library, gym, etc. Alternately, the parents could either implicitly or explicitly indicate that they could use their power or position to work in favor of the college.

This guy circumvented the "traditional" way the wealthy get their kids into college, and that was frowned upon...
 
Fledermaus said:
Let the adults prove their worth. Retake all the exams. Now. No prep. No coaching. I suspect the pass rate will be abysmal.

Those that are ashamed and leave of their own volition... So be it.
Click to expand...

That might be the fairest way to handle it. But that would seem to be the step after expulsion. But I think some got in on phony athletic achievement right? Those kids had to know and aren't likely to demonstrate the athletic ability that got them inot the school.
 
Fletch said:
That might be the fairest way to handle it. But that would seem to be the step after expulsion. But I think some got in on phony athletic achievement right? Those kids had to know and aren't likely to demonstrate the athletic ability that got them inot the school.
Click to expand...

Any sports related entry gets booted unless competitively active in that sport.
 
Bucky said:
Even if those students are doing well? That seems extreme and dangerous.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. The 'dangerous' path IMO would be to do nothing to the kids, and prove to them that cheating, lying, fraud comes with no cost to them. Just for example, at least many of these kids lied about needing more time for the SAT, then had someone sit for them or correct their test. That cannot be rewarded with, "Oh, you did a bad thing, shame on you, but here's your degree anyway. For all you other kids out there - just don't get caught BEFORE you get admitted and we'll do nothing!"

I've said on another thread that I also believe the kids who clearly were involved should plead guilty to a crime and have that on their permanent record, just like the name on their diploma. They earned the conviction, and should have to face it. I don't care if they go to jail - a misdemeanor with volunteer time is fine - but there should be a record of THEIR crime.
 
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Felis Leo said:
You touch on one of the most important issues, haymarket: the admission.

Arguably the most difficult part of college, especially the elite schools, is not the actual academic studies and remaining in school. While those can be challenging, they are nothing compared to the admissions process itself. Honest students spend years building their CV, doing extracurricular activities, studying morning noon and night for the SATs, taking advanced placement courses, and so many other things just to prove themselves worthy of being admitted. Whether by encouragement of their parents or self-determination, many of these kids have practically no childhood.

But these kids whose parents bribed their way in? They were allowed in on the basis of money and lies. And they cheated and were placed ahead of those young men and women who did everything correctly and were honest, but were robbed of a place in these elite schools. So I agree with you completely. For there to be any justice, and for there to be any integrity in either the admissions process or degrees themselves, they must be expelled, and their parents must be prosecuted.
Click to expand...

What is the value of a degree then? If anyone can complete the academic studies successfully,
why not simply issue them a degree when they complete the admission process?
 
Josie said:
Kick them out, but they can try to get back in honestly.
Click to expand...
I'm basically on this train. Depending on their academic record, they could reapply and be readmitted as if they were a transfer student (with legitimate test scores, of course). Unless there is evidence of their participation in the deception, and then they should be expelled like any other cheat. It appears that some of the parents hid the deception from their kids, but others knew. (It's hard to pretend to be an athlete in a sport you've never played. )

On the other hand, being in an elite school is no right. Their presence is an affront to all the other students. I'd be loath to allow reentry except under exceptional circumstances.
 
Felis Leo said:
You touch on one of the most important issues, haymarket: the admission.

Arguably the most difficult part of college, especially the elite schools, is not the actual academic studies and remaining in school. While those can be challenging, they are nothing compared to the admissions process itself. Honest students spend years building their CV, doing extracurricular activities, studying morning noon and night for the SATs, taking advanced placement courses, and so many other things just to prove themselves worthy of being admitted. Whether by encouragement of their parents or self-determination, many of these poor, middle class, and honest wealthy kids have practically no childhood or adolescence to speak of that does not involve preparation of college admissions.

But these kids whose parents bribed their way in? They were allowed in on the basis of money and lies. And they cheated and were placed ahead of those young men and women who did everything correctly and were honest, but were robbed of a place in these elite schools. So I agree with you completely. For there to be any justice, and for there to be any integrity in either the admissions process or degrees themselves, they must be expelled, and their parents must be prosecuted.
Click to expand...

Agreed. They must leave at once and parents prosecuted.
 
longview said:
It does not sound like the "students" used improper methods, but rather that improper methods were used without their knowledge.
This of it like the dreamers, brought the US illegally by their parents, without their knowledge or consent.
Click to expand...

They did not belong there. Period.
 
Felis Leo said:
Recently the largest admissions scandal in modern history broke, in which 50 people have been indicted in Federal Court for bribery and fraud in order to have their children admitted into some of the most elite universities in the country (and the world, for that matter). To me this is beyond outrageous, and it seems to destroy the value of these degrees. It destroys the value of the degrees for the kids who basically spent most of their childhoods and adolescence preparing and working their fingers to the bone to study, test, do countless extracurricular activities in order get into these universities. It also destroys the value of the degrees for folks from wealthy families where we do not know whether they got these degrees due to their merit, or because mommy and daddy paid through the nose to have little Bobby or Clarissa admitted into Yale.

So here is the question to the folks here: What, if anything should be done against the students admitted under the auspices of bribery and fraud to protect the integrity of the university system? Should anything be done to protect the integrity of the university system beyond that which is already being done to the parents, counselors and third-party procurers? I have given some suggestions. Please feel free to write your suggestions.

EDIT: Stupid character limitation and time limit rules.

Here were the options I was going to post:

1.Expel them. They got in under false pretenses and should not profit by their parents cheating the system and being placed ahead of people who worked and studied hard to be admitted into university.
2.Expel them. Allowing them to remain undermines the public perception of the value of higher education degrees through merit.
3.Nothing. Blame the parents not their children. How could these poor children have known that they were not bright enough to make it into Harvard and Yale?
4.Nothing. Leave them in. This just helps to prove top-notch universities are just an overpriced social-networking scam and not places of higher learning for our best and brightest.
5.Nothing. Why bother? The system is utterly corrupt. If the rich cannot bribe their children’s way in in this manner, they’ll just figure something else out.
6. Do individual evaluations to see if they are actually worthy of remaining at the university (but make sure they are not the same proctors that they bribed before of course).
7.I cannot decide.
8.Other.
Click to expand...
First thank you for putting the poll options in the OP for us Tapatalk people.

I would choose 6. And the new results should be compared to those who didn't make it to see if the latter would have qualified more. With that said, any classes that they have taken and passed should remain on their record, unless it can be shown that was bribed to pass as well.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 
They are kicked out but can reapply based on their performance.
 
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