Who do you agree with - Obama or Trump on North Korea?

President Obama gave North Korean money to buy 240,000 tons (480 million pounds) of food (Obama's 'Victory' with North Korea - by Jack David) - with North Korea promising not to spend the money on anything but food. In exchange, North Korea promised to stop setting off nuclear bombs in testing. After the aid, North Korea continued nuclear weapons and missile testing. For Billions in money, Obama got nothing in return.

President Trump ramped up stiffer sanctions against North Korea - giving North Korea nothing in return. Kim Jung Un has destroyed 1 nuclear facility, discontinued all nuclear bomb testing and all missile testing.

So, do you agree with President Obama's strategy of underwriting the North Korean government with US money - or do you agree with President Trump not doing so?

joko104 said:

President Obama gave North Korean money to buy 240,000 tons (480 million pounds) of food (Obama's 'Victory' with North Korea - by Jack David) - with North Korea promising not to spend the money on anything but food. In exchange, North Korea promised to stop setting off nuclear bombs in testing. After the aid, North Korea continued nuclear weapons and missile testing. For Billions in money, Obama got nothing in return.

President Trump ramped up stiffer sanctions against North Korea - giving North Korea nothing in return. Kim Jung Un has destroyed 1 nuclear facility, discontinued all nuclear bomb testing and all missile testing.

So, do you agree with President Obama's strategy of underwriting the North Korean government with US money - or do you agree with President Trump not doing so?

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Given the two choices, the answer is a no-brainer.

joko104 said:

Kim Jung Un has destroyed 1 nuclear facility, discontinued all nuclear bomb testing and all missile testing.

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Ummm...that was part of an on-site accident. It was only after the NK nuclear program was in ruins that KJU suddenly wanted to start peace talks. Kim Jung Un came to this stupid summit by way of a train. The trip took him 60 hours to get there. The reason is that his airplane has been broken down for roughly a year. Think about that. If North Korea can't get an airplane off the ground to fly their leader to a summit what the **** makes you think they have any chance of launching an intercontinental ballistic missile with a nuclear payload that could hit Hawaii?

I know dam well you dont think obama is a fool!! if we are going to give anybody / country food we have to get something in return... unlike trump,,, Obama will call in his generals cia nsa and ask then the best way to approach n.korea!!!

MrWonka said:

Ummm...that was part of an on-site accident. It was only after the NK nuclear program was in ruins that KJU suddenly wanted to start peace talks. Kim Jung Un came to this stupid summit by way of a train. The trip took him 60 hours to get there. The reason is that his airplane has been broken down for roughly a year. Think about that. If North Korea can't get an airplane off the ground to fly their leader to a summit what the **** makes you think they have any chance of launching an intercontinental ballistic missile with a nuclear payload that could hit Hawaii?

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i would only be concerned they would get the technology from Russia not build it themselves...that what we have to worry about with n korea

I prefer the 3rd option, I don't agree with either as this is simply a waste of time and money.

OBama got nothing from N. Korea. Trump has given nothing to them at this point. Talking is better than fighting, and not talking gets us nothing.

Why the phony poll with two absurd choices? Oh, it's a joko thread.

joko104 said:

1. President Trump ramped up stiffer sanctions against North Korea - giving North Korea nothing in return.
2. Kim Jung Un has destroyed 1 nuclear facility, discontinued all nuclear bomb testing and all missile testing?

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Did you fact check yourself? OK, I will.

1. The increase in NK sanctions were largely based on the CAATS Act (CAATSA). As far as Trump is concerned, this is false. Trump did not ramp up stiffer sanctions of his own choice, he was required to by law, and he opposed it every step of the way.

A. President Trump's White House pushed to weaken CAATSA, a move rejected by Congress.
B. President Trump "this legislation is significantly flawed. "
C. President Trump claims the act will "Drive China, Russian and NK much closer together"
D. President Trump lost the political fight, wit ha veto-proof majority...both Republicans and Democrats banding together to pass this overwhelmingly, the President could not veto it.
E. The Trump administration was even then, slow to enact all provisions:

Trump administration holds off on new Russia sanctions, despite law | Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Trump administration said on Monday it would not immediately impose additional sanctions on Russia, despite a new law designed to punish Moscow’s alleged meddling in the 2016 U.S. election, insisting the measure was already hitting Russian companies.

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And

“The State Department claims that the mere threat of sanctions will deter Russia’s aggressive behavior.

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*Choke, cough, cough*

This was passed 98-2 in the Senate.
House passed 419 to 3.

Trump couldn't veto it and would look *even more stupid* if he tried.
===================================================

2. NK destroyed a nuclear facility and stopped all bomb/missile testing [for the United States]. Also false.

North Korea nuclear programme rocked by 'collapse' of test site
North Korea nuclear test site Mantapsan mountain collapse makes it unusable for Kim Jong Un, scientists say - CBS News

Nuclear explosions release enormous amounts of heat and energy, and the North's largest test in September was believed early on to have rendered the Punggye-ri site in northeastern North Korea unstable.

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All evidence so far points to the site having first being rendered unusable via partial collapse. Oops! They went ahead and finished the job later, without allowing inspectors as required of course...*wink wink*

Regarding cessation of testing:

[QUOTE]"Kim has not changed his policy ... but claims that he's now moved from research-and-development and onto mass production," said Cristina Varriale, a research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, a London-based think tank.[/QUOTE]

Here's why North Korea stopped launching missiles in 2018 - NBC2 News

What Trump has given up:
- Trump's choice to give NK an end to joint U.S./SK military exercises -
- Trump's choice to give the brutal NK regime legitimacy by meeting with him personally... twice
- the added Bonus of Trump fawning over Kim, saying they fell in love, and other nonsense
- Trump defends Kim over death of Otto Warmbier

Now that it's in perspective, it's obvious Trump is a danger to the world, or at best, an incompetent boob.

What does the lack of proper context/facts say about you joko?

MrWonka said:

Ummm...that was part of an on-site accident. It was only after the NK nuclear program was in ruins that KJU suddenly wanted to start peace talks. Kim Jung Un came to this stupid summit by way of a train. The trip took him 60 hours to get there. The reason is that his airplane has been broken down for roughly a year. Think about that. If North Korea can't get an airplane off the ground to fly their leader to a summit what the **** makes you think they have any chance of launching an intercontinental ballistic missile with a nuclear payload that could hit Hawaii?

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Bet his submarines can make to Hawaii. But why do you see Hawaii as special? They also could reach New York, LA, Miami, Houston, Seattle, and San Francisco harbors.

The Democratic Party can't make up it's mind, can it? On the one hand, they rant that war with Korea would result in the nuclear obliteration of S. Korea and Japan, plus the destruction of Northern S. Korea by artillery. His nuclear weapons can reach our troops in S. Korea and Japan. OR is it NOW the Democratic Party's claim that all the reports about missiles of N. Korea repeatedly shot over Japan were all fake news and doing a 100% reversal TODAY claims N.K. has no military capabilities whatsoever?

Kim Jung Un did not fly and took the train in segments is for fear of assassination. The USA, Japan and S. Korea all have the ability to knock a jetliner out of the sky - and even make it look like a crash. There are plenty of other people, including likely within his own government and family, who would like to take his place or otherwise like him gone. This is the same reason that Hitler came to only travel by armored train. A jetliner can't be armored. A train can.

Nap said:

I prefer the 3rd option, I don't agree with either as this is simply a waste of time and money.

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State your "3rd option."

Mach said:

Why the phony poll with two absurd choices? Oh, it's a joko thread.



Did you fact check yourself? OK, I will.

1. The increase in NK sanctions were largely based on the CAATS Act (CAATSA). As far as Trump is concerned, this is false. Trump did not ramp up stiffer sanctions of his own choice, he was required to by law, and he opposed it every step of the way.

A. President Trump's White House pushed to weaken CAATSA, a move rejected by Congress.
B. President Trump "this legislation is significantly flawed. "
C. President Trump claims the act will "Drive China, Russian and NK much closer together"
D. President Trump lost the political fight, wit ha veto-proof majority...both Republicans and Democrats banding together to pass this overwhelmingly, the President could not veto it.
E. The Trump administration was even then, slow to enact all provisions:

Trump administration holds off on new Russia sanctions, despite law | Reuters


And

*Choke, cough, cough*

This was passed 98-2 in the Senate.
House passed 419 to 3.

Trump couldn't veto it and would look *even more stupid* if he tried.
===================================================

2. NK destroyed a nuclear facility and stopped all bomb/missile testing [for the United States]. Also false.

North Korea nuclear programme rocked by 'collapse' of test site
North Korea nuclear test site Mantapsan mountain collapse makes it unusable for Kim Jong Un, scientists say - CBS News

All evidence so far points to the site having first being rendered unusable via partial collapse. Oops! They went ahead and finished the job later, without allowing inspectors as required of course...*wink wink*

Regarding cessation of testing:

[QUOTE]"Kim has not changed his policy ... but claims that he's now moved from research-and-development and onto mass production," said Cristina Varriale, a research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, a London-based think tank.Here's why North Korea stopped launching missiles in 2018 - NBC2 News

What Trump has given up:
- Trump's choice to give NK an end to joint U.S./SK military exercises -
- Trump's choice to give the brutal NK regime legitimacy by meeting with him personally... twice
- the added Bonus of Trump fawning over Kim, saying they fell in love, and other nonsense
- Trump defends Kim over death of Otto Warmbier

Now that it's in perspective, it's obvious Trump is a danger to the world, or at best, an incompetent boob.

What does the lack of proper context/facts say about you joko?

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So how much money do you claim Trump should have given Kim Jung Un for worthless promises? More or less than Obama did?

joko104 said:

State your "3rd option."

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Let them know an attack on SK would be considered an attack on the US itself, the result being complete annihilation. Then leave them alone.

Nap said:

Let them know an attack on SK would be considered an attack on the US itself, the result being complete annihilation. Then leave them alone.

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So you favor allowing the development of a large scale nuclear armed Kim Jung Un and NK's development of global range ballistic missiles and miniaturized nuclear weapons - delivery systems and nuclear weapons he can sell to others too?

joko104 said:

So you favor allowing the development of a large scale nuclear armed Kim Jung Un and NK's development of global range ballistic missiles and miniaturized nuclear weapons - delivery systems and nuclear weapons he can sell to others too?

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I'm not in favor of it, no. However I don't see it as our responsibility to police them either. A country like NK only wants nukes in the first place in order to protect themselves from the US.

Nap said:

I'm not in favor of it, no. However I don't see it as our responsibility to police them either. A country like NK only wants nukes in the first place in order to protect themselves from the US.

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So the couple thousand year history of invasions of Korea by China and Japan all were nothing? Obviously you trust Kim Jung Un completely.

In my opinion, he has proven himself to be a true mass murdering sadist and sociopath who enjoys causing others to suffer and is exorbitantly paranoid of the USA - claiming we tried to poison him every time he gets a cold. He certainly has proven he does not care about anyone else one iota but himself. It is known no one in his military dare defy him.

When the inevitable day comes he learns he is terminally ill and blaming the USA, state any reason why he would not order a full scale nuclear strike against S. Korea, Japan/Tokyo and the USA? Doing so would give him immortality in history. Even if we were to retaliate by total obliteration of N. Korea, it would not help us, N Korea or Japan in the slightest. Rather, we would be reduced to 3rd world status and China could then easily take over the world. I see N. Korea basically as China's slave colony lead by a madman of unlimited sadism and brutality.

joko104 said:

So the couple thousand year history of invasions of Korea by China and Japan all were nothing? Obviously you trust Kim Jung Un completely.

In my opinion, he has proven himself to be a true mass murdering sadist and sociopath who enjoys causing others to suffer and is exorbitantly paranoid of the USA - claiming we tried to poison him every time he gets a cold. He certainly has proven he does not care about anyone else one iota but himself. It is known no one in his military dare defy him.

When the inevitable day comes he learns he is terminally ill and blaming the USA, state any reason why he would not order a full scale nuclear strike against S. Korea, Japan/Tokyo and the USA? Doing so would give him immortality in history. Even if we were to retaliate by total obliteration of N. Korea, it would not help us, N Korea or Japan in the slightest. Rather, we would be reduced to 3rd world status and China could then easily take over the world. I see N. Korea basically as China's slave colony lead by a madman of unlimited sadism and brutality.

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I don't trust him at all, I just don't see any need to continue to provoke him for no reason. It should be obvious by now that imposing sanctions and the like simply don't carry any weight, if you truly care about disarming these types of regimes then the only way that will happen is through force. Diplomacy and sanctions will not cut it.

You act as if he doesn't have good reason to be paranoid of the US. The US has somewhat of a track record on killing dictators either by proxy or simply invading.

Poll based on a completely false premise.

:inandout:

Nap said:

I'm not in favor of it, no. However I don't see it as our responsibility to police them either. A country like NK only wants nukes in the first place in order to protect themselves from the US.

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Oh do not be so naive, the US is just an excuse and nothing more. SK has a lot of money and Kim would love to have it.

FreedomFromAll said:

Oh do not be so naive, the US is just an excuse and nothing more. SK has a lot of money and Kim would love to have it.

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Of course they would love to have the money, that is what socialists love above all else, other people's money. All they would need to do is stop with the human rights violations and move to a more capitalistic system and they could develop just like South Korea.

To say that the US is just an excuse however is to be completely ignorant of the US's actions abroad. The US has played a prominent role in getting dictators killed, inciting civil unrest, or imposing crippling sanctions on countries around the globe. Any dictator (particularly of countries that lean more towards socialism/communism) would be foolish not to be wary of US activity near their borders.

joko104 said:

Kim Jung Un has destroyed 1 nuclear facility, discontinued all nuclear bomb testing and all missile testing.

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This is probably untrue. he may only have suspended testing, the facility destroyed in an earthquake and others still continuing production. The lowing praise of Trump's 'achievements' may be premature or misplaced entirely.

Yet for effort he deserves some credit. It may be for the wrong reasons by the wrong man. It may be for vainglory and bragging rights rather than real, lasting results.

But Trump went and talked to the North Korean leader face to face and that is something American presidents could have tried in the past that they didn't. I give him kudos for that much.

joko104 said:

So how much money do you claim Trump should have given Kim Jung Un for worthless promises? More or less than Obama did?

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I just evidenced your post was full of ****, your metrics where founded in ignorance.
It's also self-evident that the poll itself as designed, is troll-bait.

Here comes Trump, fresh off his latest over-hype train....talkinga bout how he loves a ruthless authoritarian monster, giving concessions for no apparent reason, agreeing to give NK presence on the world stage next to the U.S....builds up this summit....

and comes back empty handed.

The greatest deal maker the world has ever seen.

Trump over-hypes, acts a fool, fails, and then you want to powder his ass. It's embarrassing.

joko104 said:

President Obama gave North Korean money to buy 240,000 tons (480 million pounds) of food (Obama's 'Victory' with North Korea - by Jack David) - with North Korea promising not to spend the money on anything but food. In exchange, North Korea promised to stop setting off nuclear bombs in testing. After the aid, North Korea continued nuclear weapons and missile testing. For Billions in money, Obama got nothing in return.

President Trump ramped up stiffer sanctions against North Korea - giving North Korea nothing in return. Kim Jung Un has destroyed 1 nuclear facility, discontinued all nuclear bomb testing and all missile testing.

So, do you agree with President Obama's strategy of underwriting the North Korean government with US money - or do you agree with President Trump not doing so?

Click to expand...

As usual with you, a partisan bait poll.

Nap said:

Of course they would love to have the money, that is what socialists love above all else, other people's money. All they would need to do is stop with the human rights violations and move to a more capitalistic system and they could develop just like South Korea.

To say that the US is just an excuse however is to be completely ignorant of the US's actions abroad. The US has played a prominent role in getting dictators killed, inciting civil unrest, or imposing crippling sanctions on countries around the globe. Any dictator (particularly of countries that lean more towards socialism/communism) would be foolish not to be wary of US activity near their borders.

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What government a dictatorship has is meaningless. NK wanted to rule the south, its what all the fighting was about.

The US being an excuse for nukes was not me saying that US is not a threat to NK. Not sure why you would jump to that conclusion? If the US backed out of NK then the public excuse would be Japan. Its pretty common sense that NK's end game is to rule SK and Japan. Everything that NK does is aimed at that goal. NK is not going to magically not be NK, they will always have human rights violations. NK will always be belligerent. Talks with them are completely pointless. Trump or any president will only play into NK's hand (just as they all have before) if they try to negotiate with them.

The world needs to decide if they care care about the peoples plight in NK or not. If they do, they (as in those nations that care) need to remove the NK government. If they do not care then they still need to remove the NK government since eventual those will be further developed and used as their ambitions strengthen because of them. A world with NK is not sustainable. Whether its done now or in the future it will have to be done. And really the same goes for China and Russia, but thats another story.

I agree with neither. Haven't agreed at all with any of our involvement in North Korea.