View Poll Results: Read the scenarios in the OP carefully, and decide which punishment is acceptable.

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  • A

    1 3.57%
  • B

    16 57.14%
  • Both A and B

    2 7.14%
  • Neither A nor B

    9 32.14%
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Thread: What can the government force you to do?

  1. #31
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    Re: What can the government force you to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The problem with requiring to give blood (A) is that the police instantly then become judge and jury over who caused the accident
    Not exactly a really complicated thing to do in any case, but either way... what if it was something less time sensitive? What if your accident injured one of the person's kidneys? Surgery may not be immediately necessary for the other person if they have one good kidney remaining, but upon determining your liability through the due process could they then require you to make the victim whole by donating your kidney to them?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    As for B, that's what lawsuits are for. I see nothing special about the petty ambulance bill
    Apparently, you've been fortunate enough to not have to ride in an ambulance recently. The bill is anything but "petty."

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The ambulance will transport the person whether paid or not and it is very rare ambulance companies pursue unpaid transportation costs.
    But as you are the cause of the accident the ambulance company could sue you to retain those costs correct? Ambulance drivers and hospitals aren't slaves, are they? You can't force them to work against their will without compensation. If you do they would certainly have to charge other customers more money in order to maintain profitability so someone has to pay for that ambulance ride.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    So the answer is no to both unless by "government" you mean a court judgment ruling the person owns ambulance fees.
    Yes, that is quite obviously what we're talking about. Not to mention the reality that last I checked every single solitary state in the union requires a licensed driver to have a minimum of liability insurance in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Why do so many Democrats want to erase the Bill of Rights?
    Hmmm...you seem to be lacking some fundamental understanding of what that Bill of Rights actually says.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

  2. #32
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    Re: What can the government force you to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    - If your hair could save your victim's life, sure.
    Why would it need to save their life? If you caused them to lose their hair should it not be you that suffers to repay them?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    -
    - A skin graft would do physical harm to the person, so no.
    But it would grow back? A needle stick doesn't cause physical harm? In a blood donation setting, you're taking a pint of blood out of a person's body. That's most certainly causing them physical harm. It's unlikely to hurt a lot or cause serious damage, but it does do physical harm.

    So why is it okay for the government to harm someone financially, but not physically?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You asked about what I think would be ok, not what I think is legal, so it's a purely moral question.
    No, I did not. I asked you what the government should be allowed to FORCE you to do against your will. That is a question of what SHOULD be legal.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

  3. #33
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    Re: What can the government force you to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    Why would it need to save their life? If you caused them to lose their hair should it not be you that suffers to repay them?
    But it would grow back? A needle stick doesn't cause physical harm? In a blood donation setting, you're taking a pint of blood out of a person's body. That's most certainly causing them physical harm. It's unlikely to hurt a lot or cause serious damage, but it does do physical harm.
    So why is it okay for the government to harm someone financially, but not physically?
    No, I did not. I asked you what the government should be allowed to FORCE you to do against your will. That is a question of what SHOULD be legal.
    Ok, Mr. Absolutist. You like fun little scenarios, how about this one:

    A terrorist has a bomb rigged to blow up a building full of women, children and puppies. The only way to deactivate it is to insert a swab of his saliva. The cops have the terrorist in custody and the clock is ticking. Should they let everybody die because any encroachment on his bodily fluids would end up in forced government abortions, or should they just take the ****ing swab of saliva, because who cares, and save a lot of lives?

    Not everything in life is black and white. Using a minor inconvenience to save a human's life is not the end of all rights.

  4. #34
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    Re: What can the government force you to do?

    The government can not [legally] force anyone to donate their blood.

    The government can request that you provide a blood/urine sample if they suspect you are DUI. You can refuse of course (but your driving license is then automatically suspended in most states).

    A court can rule that you are culpable for an accident and order you (or your insurance carrier by proxy) to pay medical/property/salary/punitive damages.


    • "I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn’t need to do this. But I'd rather do it much faster." — Donald Trump 15 February 2019 •
    • US Constitution, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 7. No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law •

  5. #35
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    Re: What can the government force you to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    The government can not [legally] force anyone to donate their blood.

    The government can request that you provide a blood/urine sample if they suspect you are DUI. You can refuse of course (but your driving license is then automatically suspended in most states).

    A court can rule that you are culpable for an accident and order you (or your insurance carrier by proxy) to pay medical/property/salary/punitive damages.
    You seem to be getting overly hung up on the past tense version of the word "can" as if the goal of this post is to determine what is legal today versus what should be legal which is very clearly the intent of a poll thread.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

  6. #36
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    Re: What can the government force you to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Boo hoo, you gave blood and saved a life you tried to take. Cry me a river with your melodrama.
    Melodrama? You're the one wanting to take a persons blood by force AND, in an accident, no one "tried" to take anyone's life.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  7. #37
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    Re: What can the government force you to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    A terrorist has a bomb rigged to blow up a building full of women, children, and puppies.
    A Terrorist is very clearly intending to cause malicious harm to another person. It's not an accident that they had no idea of causing regardless of how reckless they were being. Furthermore, a cheek swab does not even break the skin. There is likely no scenario where a swab of saliva could be life-threatening. In fact, you could make the argument that saliva itself isn't even technically a part of the person's body.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

  8. #38
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    Re: What can the government force you to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    A Terrorist is very clearly intending to cause malicious harm to another person. It's not an accident that they had no idea of causing regardless of how reckless they were being. Furthermore, a cheek swab does not even break the skin. There is likely no scenario where a swab of saliva could be life-threatening. In fact, you could make the argument that saliva itself isn't even technically a part of the person's body.
    Whoa whoa whoa! You just would let the government's jack booted thugs steal someone's saliva without their explicit permission?? What kind of monster are you? It's like you hate freedom and the constitution.

  9. #39
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    Re: What can the government force you to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    Please read the scenarios below carefully before you respond to the poll. This centers around what form of punishment the government can impose upon you and to what extent they can hold you responsible for mistakes you have made.

    A.) If you caused a traffic accident and another person's life hung in the balance would it be acceptable for the government to force you the person who caused the traffic accident to donate blood against your will in order to save the victim of the car accident you caused?

    B.) If you caused a traffic accident and another person's life hung in the balance would it be acceptable for the government to force you the person who caused the traffic accident to pay for the ambulance ride to take the victim of the accident you caused to the hospital and cover whatever medical treatments were necessary to save that person's life?

    Which would be an acceptable thing for the government to do, and which one would not? Is it neither, both, or one or the other and why?
    What if the victim needs a heart? Can they take yours?

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  10. #40
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    Re: What can the government force you to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Whoa whoa whoa! You just would let the government's jack-booted thugs steal someone's saliva without their explicit permission?? What kind of monster are you? It's like you hate freedom and the constitution.
    Maybe you should take a look at the results of this poll so far and make sure you're really the one who is being reasonable here. Even by your own admission, you recognize the reality that forcing someone to undergo a medical procedure(even a relatively safe one) is significantly different than asking them to pay restitution to make a victim whole.
    Obstruction of Justice also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority.

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