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Is the democratic party holding the nation (US) hostage for political reasons?

Is the democratic party responsible for the US government shutdown?

  • Total voters
    104
Captain Adverse said:
They are both responsible, as all either has to do is "give in" completely to the other side's demands.

However, after the last two speeches by the President, especially the one today (01/19/19), I think I will hold the Democrat's unwillingness to offer/accept a "real" compromise a little more responsible than I do the President's insistence on $5+ Billion for border wall construction in exchange.
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COuld you lay out what the real compromise was . . i only had his speech on in the back ground so i guess i missed that.
 
Helix said:
would you like a link to the video?
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That does not change the stupidity of your answer. So no, it does nothing to progress the thread of any point anyone was making. :shrug:
 
danarhea said:
I disagree. Trump had a tantrum, and is the one who said "give me my wall or I will hold the government hostage until you give it to me".

This is clearly not a both sides issue. Trump started this, and this is going to finish with his ass being kicked for being such a jerk.
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Actually it seems he is asking for only a fraction of what the wall/barrier will cost. I guess you favor open borders,which is your right. People who voted in this administration voted in large part with the vow to slow down this mess called illegal immigration. We all understand you hate the guy, I have no love for him either. That being said I am not in favor of not doing what is right for Americans just so you can stick it to the "man". Petty and destructive to the country in the long run.
 
danarhea said:
I disagree. Trump had a tantrum, and is the one who said "give me my wall or I will hold the government hostage until you give it to me".

This is clearly not a both sides issue. Trump started this, and this is going to finish with his ass being kicked for being such a jerk.
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Like I said, both sides are responsible. Trump is to blame, McConnel is to blame. Pelosi is to blame....everyone in the legislative and executive branch that could have stopped this or end it right now are to blame.

Trump could have signed the bills to keep the government open.

Pelosi could have given him his wall. It is after all something that she has previously voted for in the past and agreed that it was needed.

McConnell could have let the other bills get voted on.

Democrats in general could have pressured Pelosi to accept Trumps terms.

Republicans could have pressured Trump to accept Pelosi's terms.

Both Democrats and Republicans could have worked together to get a bill to override Trump either by getting McConnell to agree to pass a bill and then over ride Trumps veto power or they could have worked to remove McConnell from his position like the Republicans did with Newt Gingrich in '98 (though he resigned before a formal vote was actually done but in the end the result was the same).

Point is that there were and still are options available to both sides to end this whole thing. Instead both sides are acting like children.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Like I said, both sides are responsible. Trump is to blame, McConnel is to blame. Pelosi is to blame....everyone in the legislative and executive branch that could have stopped this or end it right now are to blame.

Trump could have signed the bills to keep the government open.

Pelosi could have given him his wall. It is after all something that she has previously voted for in the past and agreed that it was needed.

McConnell could have let the other bills get voted on.

Democrats in general could have pressured Pelosi to accept Trumps terms.

Republicans could have pressured Trump to accept Pelosi's terms.

Both Democrats and Republicans could have worked together to get a bill to override Trump either by getting McConnell to agree to pass a bill and then over ride Trumps veto power or they could have worked to remove McConnell from his position like the Republicans did with Newt Gingrich in '98 (though he resigned before a formal vote was actually done but in the end the result was the same).

Point is that there were and still are options available to both sides to end this whole thing. Instead both sides are acting like children.
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I agree our government is acting like children in many ways but im curious in your personal opinion do you blame them all equally?
 
AGENT J said:
I agree our government is acting like children in many ways but im curious in your personal opinion do you blame them all equally?
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When it comes to a government shutdown I have always blamed both sides equally. This time is no different. Like I said in the post you quoted...there are options that could be used to bypass anyone being obstinate. There are always options available.

And I'm quite aware of what you said in post 24. I disagree with it. Nothing I said in my post which you quoted is false and therefore not dishonest. And the fact that I know that there are options available to both sides shows that I'm not ignorant. There are ways around it all. It just has to be used. Will they be easy? Depends on the route taken but at this point the answer is probably "nope". But can it be done? Yes. It just requires that both sides stop being 4 year olds.
 
Black Dog said:
That does not change the stupidity of your answer. So no, it does nothing to progress the thread of any point anyone was making. :shrug:
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so Mexico isn't paying for the wall? cool. we've found a point of agreement.
 
Kal'Stang said:
1.) When it comes to a government shutdown I have always blamed both sides equally. This time is no different. Like I said in the post you quoted...
2.) there are options that could be used to bypass anyone being obstinate. There are always options available.
3.) And I'm quite aware of what you said in post 24. I disagree with it. Nothing I said in my post which you quoted is false and therefore not dishonest.
4.) And the fact that I know that there are options available to both sides shows that I'm not ignorant.
5.) There are ways around it all. It just has to be used.
6.) Will they be easy? Depends on the route taken but at this point the answer is probably "nope".
7.) But can it be done? Yes.
8.) It just requires that both sides stop being 4 year olds.
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1.) Thanks for answer and you are welcome to that opinion i just cant see any logical in not putting trump ahead of the pact. i agree they all SHARE blame but theres nothing equal about it IMO.
2.) options alone dont make the it equal by any rational
3.) you are free to disagree, i also disagree and honestly believe it is. I stand by my statement because thers no logic to support not standing buy it and see it otherwise IMO. any view that doesnt give trump the majority of the blame i see as biased, dishoenst and or ignorant of the situation.
4.) actually it doesnt show that at all but im not calling YOU ignorant so your feeling on that is moot
5.) I disagree theres always ways around it but even if there were again that alone wouldnt make me see it as equal
6.) I agree
7.) define it . . it could be a lot of things.
8.) I do agree both sides are acting childish

why do you think the shutdown is happening now? and its such a hugh issue now?
why wasnt the wall done before when "in theroy" it would have been easier when the GOP had both houses? (I know even then the wall didnt have the support it needed even from the GOP but im still asking your opinion in general anyway)
 
Helix said:
so Mexico isn't paying for the wall? cool. we've found a point of agreement.
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If you are going to continue to make posts that have no point and are stupid, please feel free. :)
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Alright, so the US government has shutdown over 5 billion dollars that the democratic party and the "establishment" refuses to grant the US government to spend on the Mexico border. Considering the US government annual spending of 2500 billion dollars per year, of which 5 billion is barely 0.2%, is this a reasonable reason for the democratic party in the US to refuse the spending of 5 billion and to cause the ongoing government shutdown? 5 billion is not even 1% of what the US spends on defence each year. If the demoratic party said yes to the 5 billion spending, the government shutdown would be over immediately. Could they do it? Are there good enough reasons not to do it?
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Democrats are being unreasonable and I applaud Trump for holding his ground on issues that are hugely supported by the majority of Americans.
 
marke said:
Democrats are being unreasonable and I applaud Trump for holding his ground on issues that are hugely supported by the majority of Americans.
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Post the links to the polls which support your positive claim Trump is 'hugely supported by the MAJORITY of Americans. "
 
YES, the Democrats are responsible.

Nancy and Chuck do not care about the welfare of the unpaid workers.


They just want to show that they can make the President blink first.


They turned down the DACA deal because they know the "Dreamers" are NOT leaving this country anyway -- law or no law.


Chuck seems a bit more reasonable than Nancy, but he seems afraid of that termagant.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Alright, so the US government has shutdown over 5 billion dollars that the democratic party and the "establishment" refuses to grant the US government to spend on the Mexico border. Considering the US government annual spending of 2500 billion dollars per year, of which 5 billion is barely 0.2%, is this a reasonable reason for the democratic party in the US to refuse the spending of 5 billion and to cause the ongoing government shutdown? 5 billion is not even 1% of what the US spends on defence each year. If the demoratic party said yes to the 5 billion spending, the government shutdown would be over immediately. Could they do it? Are there good enough reasons not to do it?
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At this point, it's not even about the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. It's about Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and Donald Trump...and the political fallout each will endure if they give in. All three of them are responsible for the shutdown.

What I find most pathetic is this: Those three are NOT the only people in DC. There are hundreds of House and Senate Democrats and Republicans who could force any...or all...of the three to give up and end the shutdown. But none of them have the balls to do it.
 
Black Dog said:
If you are going to continue to make posts that have no point and are stupid, please feel free. :)
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i will continue to post Tweety's promise. his supporters seem to be intentionally forgetful. you are free to stop quoting me if you have trouble with that.
 
Logician Man said:
Post the links to the polls which support your positive claim Trump is 'hugely supported by the MAJORITY of Americans. "
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I have been told that politicians hire people to make polls say what they want them to say. Is that true? If so, we cannot trust polls. We should not trust polls anyway since so many of them wrongly predicted Hillary would trounce Trump by a margin of nearly 10% in the 2016 election.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Both sides are responsible. Doesn't matter who said that they would own it. Doesn't matter which side is blaming who. It takes two to tango. Both sides could have stopped this from happening in the first place. Both sides could end it RIGHT NOW.
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And then trump will demand an end to House oversight actions or he’ll hold 800,000 federal employees hostage again, knowing it will work.
 
Cardinal said:
And then trump will demand an end to House oversight actions or he’ll hold 800,000 federal employees hostage again, knowing it will work.
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:lamo :lamo :lamo Quite the overactive imagination there Cardinal. You do realize that if he did that then there would be clear evidence of obstruction and he'd be impeached immediately right? Congress would't even have to wait for Muellers report. Trump would be gone. So to further your sides "by any means necessary" aims perhaps you should get Pelosi to accept Trumps deal so that he can then do what your over active imagination wants and you can finally get him impeached on legitimate grounds. :lamo :lamo
 
Kal'Stang said:
Like I said, both sides are responsible. Trump is to blame, McConnel is to blame. Pelosi is to blame....everyone in the legislative and executive branch that could have stopped this or end it right now are to blame.

Trump could have signed the bills to keep the government open.

Pelosi could have given him his wall. It is after all something that she has previously voted for in the past and agreed that it was needed.

McConnell could have let the other bills get voted on.

Democrats in general could have pressured Pelosi to accept Trumps terms.

Republicans could have pressured Trump to accept Pelosi's terms.

Both Democrats and Republicans could have worked together to get a bill to override Trump either by getting McConnell to agree to pass a bill and then over ride Trumps veto power or they could have worked to remove McConnell from his position like the Republicans did with Newt Gingrich in '98 (though he resigned before a formal vote was actually done but in the end the result was the same).

Point is that there were and still are options available to both sides to end this whole thing. Instead both sides are acting like children.
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At this point in the shutdown where we see the President bending over with compromises that are actually good for people in the country, (DACA), I blame the Democrats more than I do the Republicans.
It's obvious that the obstructionist Democrats aren't interested in compromise of any kind because if they do come to a sensible agreement on immigration enhancements, it gives Trump the win. Can't give Trump a win headed toward the 2020 election, can we?
That's ALL this is about... Not giving him the win on one of his campaign promises to his base.

However, I think the Democrats are making a big mistake here because to the people of our country, they see him compromising and the Dems. not giving anything, so the longer the gov. stays closed, the more the blame becomes the congressional Democrats.
 
Kal'Stang said:
:lamo :lamo :lamo Quite the overactive imagination there Cardinal. You do realize that if he did that then there would be clear evidence of obstruction and he'd be impeached immediately right? Congress would't even have to wait for Muellers report. Trump would be gone. So to further your sides "by any means necessary" aims perhaps you should get Pelosi to accept Trumps deal so that he can then do what your over active imagination wants and you can finally get him impeached on legitimate grounds. :lamo :lamo
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Do you believe that it’s outside of trump’s personality to make such a demand?
 
Praxas said:
If trump would drop the wall it would also end immediately. Remember trump is the one that said Mexico would pay for it so he’s holding the nation hostage because of his lying,
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bongsaway said:
It is not the point of the money at all. The candidate that was donald trump said clearly, repeatedly that he was going to build a wall and mexico would pay for it. If you were my neighbor and I told you I just bought this new car and you're going to pay for it. What do you think your reaction would be? President trump's campaign promise to his base means nothing to me other than he lied to his base. For telling that lie and then demanding the democrats give him billions or he's going to shut down the government is a terrorist kind of move, something a kidnapper would do. I'll hold the country hostage if you don't pay. So he told us all in plain english that everyone could understand he clearly claimed he would take the mantle for shutting down the government and not blame the democrats. We all know this so if we as a nation crumble to his demands, what's gonna happen when the democrats take control and do the same thing to republicans, like repealing the second amendment? Think before you leap folks.
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Keeping illegals aliens out of our country would pay for the wall....health care and educational cost to start with. For example it has been reported that over half of illegal aliens in California are on some kind of welfare.
 
Helix said:
i will continue to post Tweety's promise. his supporters seem to be intentionally forgetful. you are free to stop quoting me if you have trouble with that.
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I have no problem. I said, and I quote...

Black Dog said:
If you are going to continue to make posts that have no point and are stupid, please feel free. :)
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You can spam and post stupid things just like I said. Don't need your approval for anything, but thanks. :mrgreen:
 
antiquity said:
Keeping illegals aliens out of our country would pay for the wall....health care and educational cost to start with. For example it has been reported that over half of illegal aliens in California are on some kind of welfare.
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If that were true, would sure be easy to round them up and deport them. No?
 
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