• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Who will be the new Speaker of the House?

Who will be the next Speaker of the House?

  • Grijalva

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nadler

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jeffries

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cummings

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gutierrez

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .
Without a Senate, she has very little power...and a lot of Party liability.

The dems have a LOT of power in the House. They can do what the republicans did to Bill Clinton. Spend 2 years and millions of dollars conducting several investigations into his presidency and his private life before he became president. It's gonna be fun watching trump go beserk. Well more beserk than he currently is.
 
You make your Pelosi objections quite clear. Please share the name of your candidate for the position who is not beholden to donors and the establishment. I'm not thinking that's gonna work out so well, but maybe you see a clearer path.

My only concern with Pelosi is that she follows the rules and protocols. Unlike Ryan who refused to respect President Obama, Pelosi will applaud trump and give him standing ovations like all Presidents have received.
 
You make your Pelosi objections quite clear. Please share the name of your candidate for the position who is not beholden to donors and the establishment. I'm not thinking that's gonna work out so well, but maybe you see a clearer path.

John Lewis per UnitedWeStand's mention; he's relatively clean, and he is certainly more progressive, charismatic and visionary than Pelosi. I would support him wholeheartedly.
 
John Lewis per UnitedWeStand's mention; he's relatively clean, and he is certainly more progressive, charismatic and visionary than Pelosi. I would support him wholeheartedly.

DsFKoBFW0AEUTRv.jpg:large
 
I don't have a clue who will be the new Speaker.

But, I wish they would announce it is Nancy Pelosi, and run with that for a day or two, just to watch the Trumpkin-head's explode. LOL!
 

That he endorses her (which I am aware of, to be clear) doesn't mean he isn't a far better candidate, nor does it change my mind about Pelosi whatsoever; a routine letter of perfunctory solidarity doesn't change the facts as they stand.

Or would you have me feel instantly and reflexively great about Hillary/bad about Bernie when he promoted her in 2016?
 
Will Pelosi hold on?

Will they pick a guy like Schiff?

Will they go with a hardcore Progressive like Grijalva?

Nadler?

Haleem Jeffries?

Luis Gutierrez?

Elijah Cummings?

I wish it would be someone besides Pelosi so the right would have another face in their fear-mongering commercials, but thinking back, she did a better job herding the cats than anyone the repubs have put in that position since 2010.
 
I wish it would be someone besides Pelosi so the right would have another face in their fear-mongering commercials, but thinking back, she did a better job herding the cats than anyone the repubs have put in that position since 2010.

...or anyone the Dems have put in that position in decades.

Dems shouldn't be letting the GOP select their leaders. Particularly when the GOP's biggest problem with Pelosi is that she's damn good at advancing Dem priorities.
 
Does it really matter?
 
The dems have a LOT of power in the House. They can do what the republicans did to Bill Clinton. Spend 2 years and millions of dollars conducting several investigations into his presidency and his private life before he became president. It's gonna be fun watching trump go beserk. Well more beserk than he currently is.

Their investigations will be a waste of time and won't amount to anything.

But hey...then we can badmouth the Dems like y'all have the GOP.
 
Does it really matter?

Of course it does. The job drove Boehner to distraction, and sent Ryan home for better opportunities. It's not for everyone, but when done well Congress actually works.
 
There has thus far been nothing I've refused to acknowledge; again, this is just another childish attempt to script flip; "I know you are but what am I" in so many words.

A district is only as hard to flip as its last major election per 2016 and Ossoff's special election where the margin was essentially razor thin in both cases; at the time of the midterms this wasn't some kind of impenetrable red bastion or even close to being one.

Also the hypocrisy/irony of dismissing Ojeda's accomplishments while exalting Ossoff's despite their mutual failure isn't lost on me.

Unless you busted your tail to help flip GA-06 then you have absolutely no standing to make such a dismissive statement.

What are you even talking about? As I literally just demonstrated, I was very clear and explicit that the flips were of primary concern; your seeming refusal or inability to comprehend this isn't my problem.

Then let me recopy the very words you wrote so that you may very clearly see them:

Moreover, though flipping seats is certainly the main thing, it's not everything

You. Said. That. Stop denying it.

That's not at all evidence that their gender specifically was the primary factor, and somehow outweighed their platform/ideological stances.

Stop layspaining. Heck, your entire barrage of emptiness has been nothing but laysplaining. Until you can show me a single progressive on the order of a Justice Democrat or a One Revolution candidate who actually flipped a seat, WHICH YOU CATEGORICALLY HAVE NOT DONE, then you have yet to establish any credibility in this discussion. You're holding nothing but a high ace in your trash poker hand, yet you have completely convinced yourself that you're holding a royal flush.

I'm sure we do, and I certainly wouldn't mind a return to the Nixon/Kennedy tax levels.

Right, and I explained why they couldn't make it work: because they were, due to the lack of economy of scale and thus bargaining power, unable to realize the savings that makes SP so attractive in the first place.

For similar reasons it wouldn't work well in Colorado.

SP by far works best as a national level project because the federal government, not coincidentally has by far the most negotiating power, and can levy this on behalf of the smaller states that lack it.

Here's a possible track to single-payer: First, let it get up and running in a couple of states. See what works and what doesn't. Let's get the bugs out of the system. THEN let's start talking about taking it nationwide.

But going straight to a nationwide single-payer system is foolish. You'd need a massive amount of money, which would require raising taxes, which would cost you votes. Second, you'd need an incredible infrastructure, as you'd be rebuilding the entire medical payment system from the ground up. Finally, even if you somehow by some miracle actually pulled all this off, then getting there will require sucking out a massive amount of oxygen from the room. Look how much effort it took Democrats to pass the compromise known as Obamacare in 2010. Look how much harder Congressional Republicans found Obamacare repeal to be than they realized in 2017 (it amuses me to no end that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton could have told them as much). A single-minded march to single-payer will suck oxygen away from issues that are at least as important, such as campaign finance reform, the abolition of gerrymandering, criminal justice reform, education reform, infrastructure, and more importantly than literally every other issue there is, building a green economy. None of this, absolutely none of this matters if we can't get the green economy going and save our planet from disaster. Otherwise you and I are gonna have to continue this bickering on a disappearing island, and neither of us want that.
 
Of course it does. The job drove Boehner to distraction, and sent Ryan home for better opportunities. It's not for everyone, but when done well Congress actually works.

We each have our own definition of "works".
 
I don't want it to be, but the Dems always fall in line behind their establishment folks. It's probably going to be Pelosi :(

To be fair, she is good at being speaker, much better for her party and for America than an of the ****ty GOP speakers, like Gingrich (puke), Hastert (child molester), Boener (cryer) and Eddie Munster, I mean Paul Ryan etch!
 
...or anyone the Dems have put in that position in decades.

Dems shouldn't be letting the GOP select their leaders. Particularly when the GOP's biggest problem with Pelosi is that she's damn good at advancing Dem priorities.

I'm pretty sure the GOP wants Pelosi as speaker; their slams against her aren't about making ground (already done), so much as pushing an advantage, and tying her terrible favourability to the party at large.


Unless you busted your tail to help flip GA-06 then you have absolutely no standing to make such a dismissive statement.

You seem to be a fan of facts so I cited some, and they are as follows: at the time of the midterms GA-06 was not a difficult race to win per the figures as they stood.


Then let me recopy the very words you wrote so that you may very clearly see them:

You. Said. That. Stop denying it.

I haven't denied a thing; what I've said is that those words in no way whatsoever establish that I don't look to winning as my main goal and objective, and they absolutely do not by any reading of any sane, rational person.

Stop layspaining. Heck, your entire barrage of emptiness has been nothing but laysplaining. Until you can show me a single progressive on the order of a Justice Democrat or a One Revolution candidate who actually flipped a seat, WHICH YOU CATEGORICALLY HAVE NOT DONE, then you have yet to establish any credibility in this discussion. You're holding nothing but a high ace in your trash poker hand, yet you have completely convinced yourself that you're holding a royal flush.

How is it at all 'layspaining' (sic) to ask for evidence that their gender was the primary factor or at the very least a more dominant one than their platform? You made the assertion, so let's see some evidence; after all, you're the facts guy right? Further, why does a JD or OR candidate specifically have to flip a seat for the progressive movement at large to have a victory? You are being absolutely and utterly ridiculous and disingenuous.

Here's a possible track to single-payer: First, let it get up and running in a couple of states. See what works and what doesn't...

Believe me, I would have loved to see it go up in California as a fore-running proof of concept; it's too bad Anthony Rendon, a notorious insurance shill of a Democrat on par with the likes of Joe Lieberman, had other ideas.

Further, we already have a wealth of existing experience the world over to draw from in drafting an SP/MFA system.

But going straight to a nationwide single-payer system is foolish...

Tackling campaign finance reform is probably the single most important element of all in terms of revivifying the democratic/representative nature of American governance, and dispelling the mounting, increasingly mundane corruption and pay to play that has this country on the cusp of plutocracy; if you convincingly deal with that, all else follows inevitably. The problem is it's a sort of catch 22, because you will undoubtedly need a constitutional amendment to deal with the asinine precedence of Buckley v Valeo 76 that prevents meaningful change, and thus you need to get a critical mass of the House representatives/state legislatures onside which are largely captured by money (and incidentally why small donations are so stringently emphasized in progressive circles). That is excruciating difficult stuff which is probably much further off than progress on any of these other issues unfortunately. There are groups such as WolfPAC that are working hard to broker a state convention approach, but they're still a ways off because, despite overwhelming public support for decoupling money for speech, it happens to speak much more loudly in just about every chamber of governance that matters.

That said, while we need absolutely need to make progress towards this issue, among others that you've mentioned, I do not feel that progress on SP/MFA is mutually exclusive with their own. Moreover, raising taxes in exchange for comprehensive healthcare may actually earn votes rather than cost them if the case is well presented and voters understand the value derived, particularly if translated into dollar terms of relative cost; for example if you can either pay an extra 6000 in taxes or 10000 out of pocket for roughly the same coverage, the choice becomes damned obvious, and that is essentially the decision the people residing in SP countries have made. Further, if Medicare for All were such a loser politically, it wouldn't have gathered nearly the popularity and momentum it obviously did, and continues to. In fact, SP/MFA may end up being one of the pillar approaches that gives us the electoral power we need to fulfill all other elements of our agenda.
 
Last edited:
You seem to be a fan of facts so I cited some, and they are as follows: at the time of the midterms GA-06 was not a difficult race to win per the figures as they stood.

You weren't there. You weren't there when the race was "Likely Republican" from the get-go, but a bunch of committed women and men kept volunteering and canvassing and investing more and more time. (Repeatedly I observed more women than men.) You weren't there as they came down the stretch run and the race tightened and they made one final push. You weren't there when McBath finally scored a razor-thin victory. "Not a difficult race to win"...are you even trying not to sound dismissive at this point?

I haven't denied a thing; what I've said is that those words in no way whatsoever establish that I don't look to winning as my main goal and objective, and they absolutely do not by any reading of any sane, rational person.

I do not find your words to be credible. And if you want the silent majority of us Democrats who aren't on board with you guys to feel any differently, best you look within to figure out why.
 
You weren't there. You weren't there when the race was "Likely Republican" from the get-go, but a bunch of committed women and men kept volunteering and canvassing and investing more and more time. (Repeatedly I observed more women than men.) You weren't there as they came down the stretch run and the race tightened and they made one final push. You weren't there when McBath finally scored a razor-thin victory. "Not a difficult race to win"...are you even trying not to sound dismissive at this point?

When you can't even acknowledge the magnitude of Ojeda's achievement as you handily praise Ossoff, don't ****ing talk to me about being dismissive. I'm sorry you're so hung up on the fact that McBath scored a weak win in a relatively easy, close riding by the numbers, but she did; that's simply the truth; I'm obviously happy she won, but that doesn't make any of this less true.


I do not find your words to be credible. And if you want the silent majority of us Democrats who aren't on board with you guys to feel any differently, best you look within to figure out why.

Then it seems you have some notable issues with reading comprehension then, with all due respect, because I feel the meaning of those words you keep vilifying to be very straightforward, and clearly not in line with your conclusions whatsoever.

Further, I'm not impressed by your claims to being of the 'silent majority'; you mean, the same majority that roundly supports our core ideas? That believes in Medicare for All, free college tuition and getting money out of politics? If you're not a fan of the progressive agenda, and the tremendous progress and growth we've made in 2 years, buckle up, because we've only just started, and we're only getting stronger.
 
When you can't even acknowledge the magnitude of Ojeda's achievement as you handily praise Ossoff, don't ****ing talk to me about being dismissive. I'm sorry you're so hung up on the fact that McBath scored a weak win in a relatively easy, close riding by the numbers, but she did; that's simply the truth; I'm obviously happy she won, but that doesn't make any of this less true.

:2funny:

Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll admit that I've been getting a little stressed by your words, but man oh man did you just provide some comic relief with that whopper! :lamo

But who am I kidding. You're not going to listen to anything I say. You see my words, but you do not listen. You believe that you possess the absolute truth, that you are absolutely right and that anyone who points out the slightest imperfections in your positions is absolutely wrong. You have your dogmas of unquestionable faith, and anyone who dares to threaten them is a heretic. You even have your deities, such as Saint Elizabeth Warren, Saint Ben Jealous, your newest Saint Ocasio-Cortez, and most of all, the Great Messiah, the Lord God Bernard Sanders. Trying to convince you to soften your devotion to these deified humans would be as easy as getting a fundamentalist to doubt the existence of God. You believe that you are absolutely right and I am absolutely wrong, as all of your responses prove, including your upcoming response to this post. In that specific regard, in that specific regard, you are not any different from most tRump supporters. Note that you will deliberately misinterpret that sentence as well; in particular, you will reject the first four words, even though I repeated them for obvious emphasis. Because you absolutely believe that you are absolutely right.
 
I don't have a clue who will be the new Speaker.

But, I wish they would announce it is Nancy Pelosi, and run with that for a day or two, just to watch the Trumpkin-head's explode. LOL!

If they pick Nutty Nancy again, the only thing we'll explode with is laughter.
Having her as the face of the Democrat-run House will be very beneficial for the Republicans in 2020.
 
:2funny:

Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll admit that I've been getting a little stressed by your words, but man oh man did you just provide some comic relief with that whopper! :lamo

But who am I kidding. You're not going to listen to anything I say. You see my words, but you do not listen. You believe that you possess the absolute truth, that you are absolutely right and that anyone who points out the slightest imperfections in your positions is absolutely wrong. You have your dogmas of unquestionable faith, and anyone who dares to threaten them is a heretic. You even have your deities, such as Saint Elizabeth Warren, Saint Ben Jealous, your newest Saint Ocasio-Cortez, and most of all, the Great Messiah, the Lord God Bernard Sanders. Trying to convince you to soften your devotion to these deified humans would be as easy as getting a fundamentalist to doubt the existence of God. You believe that you are absolutely right and I am absolutely wrong, as all of your responses prove, including your upcoming response to this post. In that specific regard, in that specific regard, you are not any different from most tRump supporters. Note that you will deliberately misinterpret that sentence as well; in particular, you will reject the first four words, even though I repeated them for obvious emphasis. Because you absolutely believe that you are absolutely right.

Yeah, I can see my decision to unignore was absolutely mistaken at this point: when you can't come to terms with the facts as they stand while simultaneously accusing me of the same, even to the point of willfully misinterpreting very straightforward statements in a pathetic, grasping attempt to foment some kind of talking point blow against me not having electoral success as my first priority, it is obvious that someone in this exchange is indeed not interested in listening; but it clearly isn't me. This complete bunk about deification only underscores just how hopelessly dug in you are (which, let's be honest is probably more true of your diehard love for figures like Pelosi and Clinton). I don't think for a second that I have some exclusive hold on universal truth; the fact is that if you want to be at all persuasive, you can't fall back on absurd, baseless accusations and assertions which demonstrate either your naked partisanship or your lack of good faith in discussing things honestly, like that gender outweighed policy in progressive wins, that JD and OR are somehow the totality of the progressive movement, that I don't prioritize winning over having the perfect rep (despite literally and explicitly stating I do), that McBath's riding wasn't close, and so on.

At any rate, if that's how to choose to interpret me in an attempt to close things out and try to save a bit of face, all good; though I think by now, it's clear that this sense of absolute conviction is more projection on your part than anything else.
 
Will Pelosi hold on?

Will they pick a guy like Schiff?

Will they go with a hardcore Progressive like Grijalva?

Nadler?

Haleem Jeffries?

Luis Gutierrez?

Elijah Cummings?

The powers that be will give us another Pelosi speakership just as the powers that be gave us Hillary. It's probably a pragmatic move right now, she's capable and will draw right's crosshairs for 2 more years at which point IMHO it would be wise to step down and turn the power over for the 2020 elections.
 
Yeah, I can see my decision to unignore was absolutely mistaken at this point: when you can't come to terms with the facts as they stand while simultaneously accusing me of the same, even to the point of willfully misinterpreting very straightforward statements in a pathetic, grasping attempt to foment

And there it is. The hyperdefensive reaction on having your dogmatism pointed out to you. EXACTLY as I said you would:

But who am I kidding. You're not going to listen to anything I say. You see my words, but you do not listen. You believe that you possess the absolute truth, that you are absolutely right and that anyone who points out the slightest imperfections in your positions is absolutely wrong. You have your dogmas of unquestionable faith, and anyone who dares to threaten them is a heretic.

I even said that you would do it:

You believe that you are absolutely right and I am absolutely wrong, as all of your responses prove, including your upcoming response to this post.

And you did it:

some kind of talking point blow against me not having electoral success as my first priority, it is obvious that someone in this exchange is indeed not interested in listening; but it clearly isn't me. This complete bunk about deification only underscores just how hopelessly dug in you are (which, let's be honest is probably more true of your diehard love for figures like Pelosi and Clinton).

Again. Religion. To you, Pelosi and Hillary are heretics. There is literally nothing I can possibly say to talk you out of your dogma. You are absolutely right and I am absolutely wrong. Only the Lord God Bernard Sanders can save me now from my personal sins. Let us pray to Him now.
 
Back
Top Bottom