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Should there be a Federal Estate Tax?

Should there be a Federal Estate Tax?


  • Total voters
    71
I beg to differ..... how does the estate tax keep people from creating wealth? Start with the fact that the "wealth producers" never actually pay the tax. The tax is only paid AFTER they die. We should all be so lucky as to worry about the cost of things AFTER we die. In an estate tax, you enjoy the benefit of wealth without paying the tax (again, because the tax is paid after you die). I don't think you are really thinking this through.

There was a time when INCOME taxes had a marginal rate of 90% that people would be known to not want to work (generally actors)... but, that a 90% rate paid on income by people that were alive.

BTW. The estate tax rate is 40% AFTER exemptions.
The argument you're making is essentially a rationalization. Your point, that's not without merit, is that the tax rate is not at a high enough rate to stop people from creating wealth. I will concede that the rate matters. If it stays below a tipping point people will begrudgingly pay it but continue to be motivated to work and amass additional wealth. If the tax rate gets high enough that motivation evaporates.

My position is that taxes on income and on amassed wealth discourage production. It may not halt it, depending on the rate they are taxed out but it's counterproductive to encouraging people to produce things. We are financially penalizing people for the fruits of their labor. That is an inherent flaw in our tax system, imo.

I believe taxing consumption is far superior and a more ethical system. one of the most important metrics to measure the value of a society to mankind is how much we can collectively accomplish. Technologies are advanced through work. We should make work as rewarding as possible.

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No, there should not be an estate tax because inherited income should be treated the same way as any other source of income and taxed at the same rate. It shouldn't be treated as a special case.

I voted other.
 
Creativity is not motivated by monetary gain.

"Money is the mother of invention" said no one ever.
The saying goes that necessity is the mother of innovation. Money is a necessity.

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And if they hold on to it and it continues to grow they pay tax on the gain that occurred during their holding.

But the 10k gain at my death goes POOF!

That's a nice tax BENEFIT. I don't know why you're pushing back on this obvious fact here.
 
The saying goes that necessity is the mother of innovation. Money is a necessity.

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Someone with 11million does not need money, not the same way they did prior to having 11 million.
 
As it exists today, I detest the estate tax. I had rather it go the way of the dodo.

My objection to the estate tax's extancy derives from (Ordered list for reference ease, not for prioritization):
  1. Governments receiving estate tax proceeds.
  2. The tax's having no underlying exchange transaction as its impetus.
  3. The tax's creating industries -- estate planning and trust management -- and forms of organization (trusts) that, IMO, shouldn't need to exist.
  4. The tax applies only to the heirs of people who did adroitly the one thing we're all expected to do: maximize the profitable deployment of one's resources.
  5. One's estate is much like life insurance proceeds, the substantive difference being that the insurer is the decedent rather than a third party. Just as life insurance proceeds aren't taxable, neither should be one's passed on estate.

One:
Were the rate of the tax sufficiently low, I could perhaps be brought to acquiesce to its persistence were it that qualified 509(a)(1) public charities of decedents' designation the recipients of the gross tax proceeds. The government already taxed the money one earned while it was alive; thus it already got its share of your "pie," if you will. The estate tax is little other than the vulturous government take more.

Two:
Typically, governments levy taxes on behavior arising from an exchange transaction, a sale of goods or services. Incomes taxes arise from the willful sale of labor, sales taxes arise from the willful sale of goods and sometimes labor. Each transaction is agreed upon because the parties to it believe they will obtain utility from having done so. The estate tax, however, arises from no such exchange of resources undertaken to provide utility to the parties to the exchange, but rather on account of one's merely dying.

Three:
It pisses me off that the tax code has provisions that, by their very existence, give rise to industries that exists solely for and makes profit from devising ways to avoid the provisions of the tax code itself. Yet that's exactly what the estate planning industry does and the estate tax is the only reason that line of services exists. People who are bright enough to devise ways to avail their clients of ways to skirt the tax code are bright enough to do a number of productive things that produce value; thus I'm not concerned that they cannot perform other sufficiently remunerative work.

(The estate tax planning and trust management industries aren't the only ones about which I feel this way -- I feel no differently about tax law and tax accounting. It just so happens that we're here addressing estate taxes, so I've noted that aspect of the tax minimization industry.)

Four:
The estate tax essentially makes one's heirs pay for having known someone who demonstrated an adroitness at doing the primary things America is "all about": bringing his/her resources to bear so as to realize the American dream.
  • Would you pay money to merely know someone?
  • Is the nature of your relationship formation and develop conducted as are gambling activities in that you "do right" by individual, thus wagering they'll, in turn, leave you something in their will? (Perhaps you do, in which case you deserve to pay an inheritance tax.)
  • Do you think your child should pay money for the privilege of being born to you?
  • Say you have four kids. Do you think your kids should pay a tax on whatever you spent in tuition, room, board, transportation and entertainment you for some 20 odd years (give or take) while you were alive? If not, effectively giving them more of the same in death should be no differently non-taxable.

Five -- I think the bullet remark above adequately expressed the nature of my objection on the life insurance basis.
 
But the 10k gain at my death goes POOF!

That's a nice tax BENEFIT. I don't know why you're pushing back on this obvious fact here.
I just don't see it as a major deal. Death shouldn't be a taxable event IMHO.
 
Someone with 11million does not need money, not the same way they did prior to having 11 million.

Yes they do. They need 20-foot yachts. Being forced to only have an 18-foot yacht is socialism.

/s
 
Someone with 11million does not need money, not the same way they did prior to having 11 million.
How much is enough is something that varies from individual to individual. My magic number is a google. Yours might be less. I have no right to tell you yours isn't enough and you have no right to tell me mine is too much. My life ambition may be to feed the world and the government taxing me is obstructing me from reaching my goal.

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Yes they do. They need 20-foot yachts. Being forced to only have an 18-foot yacht is socialism.

/s
Mine will be at least 200' before I'm satisfied. I have bigger dreams than you. Your small thinking isn't my concern.

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A brief explanation of what the Estate Tax is, for those of you who are unaware: When a citizen dies, the first $11,180,000 of their estate is exempt from the Estate Tax. That amount is doubled for married couples (as there are two citizens). Amounts above that threshold are taxed at a top rate of 40%.

I have heard solid arguments for and against the Estate Tax.
Personally, I find it hard to answer because I agree with arguments from both sides, to a point. But My answer is “Yes”

Overall, I believe in a progressive tax system, today more than ever in our past. An estate tax is an extension of a progressive tax system. It also encourages charitable contributions, while raising more funds from the government which reduces the need to increase payroll tax revenue.

I welcome debate on all factors of the question, including the exemption amount, the tax rate, etc. But the poll itself is questioning the broader question: Should there be an Estate Tax?

Trump has our deficit heading towards $1 Trillion. The last thing we need is another tax break for 1%ers.
 
I find it very difficult to imagine one good reason why this theft should be considered justifiable.
 
I just don't see it as a major deal. Death shouldn't be a taxable event IMHO.

It's not. As I'm pointing out, death is a TAX AVOIDANCE event for about 99.9% of us.
 
No there should not be one. It discourages progress. Why should a person like bill Gates continue to develop products if he has reached his wealth cap and the government is going to begin confiscating his wealth from his heirs?

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fun fact: Bill Gates is not going to pass on most of his wealth
 
What gives you the right to make that determination?

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My support for officials who pass laws to limit inheritances through taxation upon death. That's my right and guess what, most people support me on this one.
 
So....we are taxed on our income; when we die, if we are very successful, the government decides to re-tax us on money we have already paid taxes on to appease the need for government revenue and the hurt ego's of those that were not quite as successful.

Why?

If I paid taxes on it and I die, I can give it to whomever I want.....even if I want to donate everything to blue eyed, left handed autistic cats and tell the world to pound sand.
 
ABut the poll itself is questioning the broader question: Should there be an Estate Tax?

I find it very difficult to imagine one good reason why this theft should be considered justifiable.

So....we are taxed on our income; when we die, if we are very successful, the government decides to re-tax us on money we have already paid taxes on to appease the need for government revenue and the hurt ego's of those that were not quite as successful.

Why?

Why? The experience and mere existence of the English aristocracy that which the idea of America fundamentally opposed.

The English had - and still have to some degree - an established wealthy ruling class underpinned by hereditary wealth rights. Members of the Peerage who inherit massive estates and are, for example, entitled by birthright to serve in the House of Lords for life.

Laws like the Estate tax are vital protection of the American idea of a democratic social state of equality, at which Tocqueville marveled. We believe individuals have the right to their own efforts and success; and not of their families.

I mean, I like the entertaining world of Downtown Abby. I don't want to live it.
 
Why? The experience and mere existence of the English aristocracy that which the idea of America fundamentally opposed.

The English had - and still have to some degree - an established a wealthy ruling class underpinned by hereditary wealth rights. Members of the Peerage who inherit massive estates and are, for example, entitled by birthright to serve in the House of Lords for life.

Laws like the Estate tax are vital protection of the American idea of a democratic social state of equality at which Tocqueville marveled. We believe individuals have the right to their own efforts and success; and not of their families.

I like the entertaining world of Downtown Abby. I don't want to live it.

So....still no valid answer beyond class and success envy?

Im not rich.....probably never will be, but I don't hate those individuals and families that did succeed....its their success, not mine, not yours, and not the governments.

Looking around, none of us is living in an aristocracy in the United States except in the minds of some here that seem to feel the need to entitle themselves to the hard work of others.
 
So....still no valid answer beyond class and success envy?

Im not rich.....probably never will be, but I don't hate those individuals and families that did succeed....its their success, not mine, not yours, and not the governments.

Looking around, none of us is living in an aristocracy in the United States except in the minds of some here that seem to feel the need to entitle themselves to the hard work of others.
You're right, in the USA, for the exception of a few like Paris Hilton, we have been able to utilize the Estate tax from creating more Paris Hiltons. Weakening it would be a travesty.

And class envy? I consider myself, as well as my parents wealthy. My parents will be subject to the Estate tax.

Rather, I know enough wealthy people myself to understand that hard work/talent is not correlated to wealth. Social connections, family, privilege and luck play far greater roles than most Americans who dream of being rich could ever imagine.
 
You're right, in the USA, for the exception of a few like Paris Hilton, we have been able to utilize the Estate tax from creating more Paris Hiltons. Weakening it would be a travesty.

And class envy? I consider myself, as well as my parents wealthy. My parents will be subject to the Estate tax.

Rather, I know enough wealthy people myself to understand that hard work/talent is not correlated to wealth. Social connections, family, privilege and luck play far greater roles than most Americans who dream of being rich could ever imagine.

Excellent!!

Give the government as much as you want...hell; give it all to the government and those that have not earned it....its your choice to do so. :thumbs:

But, it shouldn't be your choice to take away anyone elses assets.
 
Why? The experience and mere existence of the English aristocracy that which the idea of America fundamentally opposed.

The English had - and still have to some degree - an established wealthy ruling class underpinned by hereditary wealth rights. Members of the Peerage who inherit massive estates and are, for example, entitled by birthright to serve in the House of Lords for life.

Laws like the Estate tax are vital protection of the American idea of a democratic social state of equality, at which Tocqueville marveled. We believe individuals have the right to their own efforts and success; and not of their families.

I mean, I like the entertaining world of Downtown Abby. I don't want to live it.

First off, the English aristocracy, their wealth and privilege was based off of the lands they owned. An 18th Century German Jew by the name of Mayer Amschel Rothschild came along and changed all that. It was his and his family's fortune that helped detach the aristocracy from their land. His holdings and influence paved the way and made it so that capital alone gave people their membership into that select group.

In that, you must also remember, that class and occupation at that time is what was hereditary. Not merely was wealth and privilege passed down but so were memberships into guilds and trades. A chimney sweep's son was a chimney sweep in training, a seamstress's daughter, a seamstress in the making. Or a butler, or a maid, or baker, or cook, or blacksmith,....you get the idea. There was no social mobility because the opportunities to better yourself weren't there because your better's just didn't believe you had the proper breeding.

All that changed in America. It was that any man could be anything. There never has been an America that was without an aristocracy. The never was any serious intention because there was never any serious action taken. It simply was a case that membership was opened to more the industrious, it was that a man could make his fortune move up the ladder and watch his son go further than he did, that his son or daughter didn't have to be a chimney sweep or seamstress, they could be a banker, or business man, they could through the sweat of their brow and determination create for themselves and their posterity a better future, a rise in social class, by being able to have a chance to make their fortune.

Laws like the Estate tax are theft having no place in America. The idea that every generation is supposed to start at zero, or as close to zero as possible in order to achieve some naive notion of equality is simply not to understand history and the ideas and thoughts that the founders put into place. The social state of equality that Tocqueville marveled at was one where anyone could be anything and weren't encumbered by their rank and status in society. A rank and status that was unchangeable in the English aristocracy .

I'm certain if you were the lord of the manor you'd be living it to the fullest.


To take what is mine when I pass makes he who takes a grave robber. Quite simply, there is no other way to see it.
 
No I don't support an estate tax because as others have pointed out its money that has already been taxed two or three times already.
 
A brief explanation of what the Estate Tax is, for those of you who are unaware: When a citizen dies, the first $11,180,000 of their estate is exempt from the Estate Tax. That amount is doubled for married couples (as there are two citizens). Amounts above that threshold are taxed at a top rate of 40%.

I have heard solid arguments for and against the Estate Tax.
Personally, I find it hard to answer because I agree with arguments from both sides, to a point. But My answer is “Yes”

Overall, I believe in a progressive tax system, today more than ever in our past. An estate tax is an extension of a progressive tax system. It also encourages charitable contributions, while raising more funds from the government which reduces the need to increase payroll tax revenue.

I welcome debate on all factors of the question, including the exemption amount, the tax rate, etc. But the poll itself is questioning the broader question: Should there be an Estate Tax?

America is skiing down the icy slope towards insolvency and will eventually likely have to consider taxing the savings accounts of all Americans just like Greece considered as a solution to its own debt crisis. Congress has refused to stop growing the government and spending money the nation does not have and our situation is now desperate, driving the urgency to increase taxes wherever possible. We need to make the tough decision to slash government spending or suffer the unpleasant consequences.
 
America is skiing down the icy slope towards insolvency and will eventually likely have to consider taxing the savings accounts of all Americans just like Greece considered as a solution to its own debt crisis. Congress has refused to stop growing the government and spending money the nation does not have and our situation is now desperate, driving the urgency to increase taxes wherever possible. We need to make the tough decision to slash government spending or suffer the unpleasant consequences.

Tax increases should start with the top 1 percenters,which Trump just gave another tax decrease. Are you for,or against, increasing the tax rate for the top 1 percent,Marke?
 
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