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What's your take on the Jamal Kashoggi murder?

What's your take on the Jamal Kashoggi murder?

  • Saudi Prince ordered Jamal's murder

    Votes: 35 92.1%

  • Rogue killer theory

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Jamal is alive and well

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Jamal Kashoggi isn't a real person

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • There was no murder because Istanbul is an imaginary place

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Trump got more electoral votes than any President in history

    Votes: 2 5.3%

  • Brain in jar theory

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Melting hands theory

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    38
ttwtt78640 said:
The Saudis made the mistake of eliminating 'the problem' in such a sloppy manner. Use of a 'street crime', a 'suicide/terrorist bombing' or even a tragic auto/aircraft 'accident' would have been the better call. The bottom line is that they knew that they could get away with it so why even bother making it appear to be collateral damage - sending a very clear message to others that might dare to become a 'problem' in the future.
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What immediately popped into my mind regarding method here was "Putinesque".

I'm well aware that the Mossad, CIA and the rest remove threats via assassination. However, this guy wouldn't seem to qualify as the sort of threat the CIA or Mossad would kill. Putin would. Now I guess we can expect this from the Saudis anytime a journalist ticks of one of their top guys.

Kushner seems to have thought this MSB guy would moderate SA somewhat. Oh, well.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
What immediately popped into my mind regarding method here was "Putinesque".

I'm well aware that the Mossad, CIA and the rest remove threats via assassination. However, this guy wouldn't seem to qualify as the sort of threat the CIA or Mossad would kill. Putin would. Now I guess we can expect this from the Saudis anytime a journalist ticks of one of their top guys.

Kushner seems to have thought this MSB guy would moderate SA somewhat. Oh, well.
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It seems doubtful to me that any mere journalist would be the subject of such an elaborate rouse. After doing some digging, it looks like this guy used to be an asset of the Saudi General Intelligence Directorate - their version of the CIA. So maybe he was shopping secrets or maybe he was a loose end.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
What immediately popped into my mind regarding method here was "Putinesque".

I'm well aware that the Mossad, CIA and the rest remove threats via assassination. However, this guy wouldn't seem to qualify as the sort of threat the CIA or Mossad would kill. Putin would. Now I guess we can expect this from the Saudis anytime a journalist ticks of one of their top guys.

Kushner seems to have thought this MSB guy would moderate SA somewhat. Oh, well.
Click to expand...

Nope, he will be told that any future 'hits' must be done more discretely. Perhaps drug the guy and have him 'discovered' in the company of underage hookers?
 
Cardinal said:
Numerous news outlets are citing evidence that Jamal Kashoggi entered the Saudi consulate and didn't come back out alive. He has not been seen since. Trump, who has numerous financial and business ties with Saudi interests, believes the Saudi Prince's denial of Kashoggi's murder and is telling people not to rush to conclusions. What do you think?

Options:

1. The Saudi Prince ordered the killing of Jamal Kashoggi.
2. Rogue killers killed Jamal Kashoggi.
3. Jamal Kashoggi is alive and well and watching The Price is Right reruns in Pittsburgh.
4. There is no Jamal Kashoggi/ Jamal Kashoggi is a crisis actor.
5. There is no Istanbul
6. Get over it, libs. Trump won.
7. The external world is unreal, and you're actually a brain in a vat of chemicals being stimulated by a mad scientist to hallucinate the external world.
8. Have you ever really looked at your hands? No, I mean really looked at them. My friend is a jerk. He said that three were fine because they were weak. Oh god my hands are melting. I didn't sign up for this.
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None of the above.

I'll wait for some actual facts.
 
Napoleon said:
It seems doubtful to me that any mere journalist would be the subject of such an elaborate rouse. After doing some digging, it looks like this guy used to be an asset of the Saudi General Intelligence Directorate - their version of the CIA. So maybe he was shopping secrets or maybe he was a loose end.
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I haven't spent time digging - I'll look into that angle.

Still, murder and chopping up bodies is very crude and extreme (damn sloppy work). What you wrote would explain detention and a trial, nothing more.
 
Mycroft said:
Sure, but that doesn't mean we can't find out the facts.
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Maybe we can ask the FBI or Congress to look into it or, eventually, assign a 'special council' but they would need Turkish and Saudi approval to get much done - the first 48 hours are said to be critical in such investigations.
 
washunut said:
I am assuming he was tortured and killed. That being said can't help but wonder why this horrible act is being reacted to in such a strong manner.

We know that Turkey has imprisoned many journalists,not sure of their fate. Of course Russia has a bad history here. In China people of certain religions are being sent to retraining camps. The list of human rights transgressions is sadly very long.

So what is causing the uproar over this act? That question to that may be more interesting than what happened to this fellow.
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Doing it in another country under the cover of diplomatic protection is what makes it especially concerning to the international community.
 
Cardinal said:
So you voted for option #7 then.
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I have no idea what a "melting hands theory" is, so no...I don't vote for that option.

But hey...if you want to explain it to me...preferably with some scholarly links...I'll consider that option.
 
Mycroft said:
I have no idea what a "melting hands theory" is, so no...I don't vote for that option.

But hey...if you want to explain it to me...preferably with some scholarly links...I'll consider that option.
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No, the melting hands theory is option #8.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Maybe we can ask the FBI or Congress to look into it or, eventually, assign a 'special council' but they would need Turkish and Saudi approval to get much done - the first 48 hours are said to be critical in such investigations.
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Sure...

Or, we can just take the easy way out. Listen to all the rumors, filter them through whatever political bias we have and then come up with an opinion.

Or, we can take the much easier way out. Listen to all the talking potato heads in the multimedia who have done all that hard work and just go with THEIR opinion.
 
Mycroft said:
Sure...

Or, we can just take the easy way out. Listen to all the rumors, filter them through whatever political bias we have and then come up with an opinion.

Or, we can take the much easier way out. Listen to all the talking potato heads in the multimedia who have done all that hard work and just go with THEIR opinion.
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Aw how cute. Trumpsters are having a hard time dealing with the fact that The President and his son in law are in the pockets of a murdering corrupt despot.

Trumpsters: Facts are rumors and journalists are lying.

Me: How do you know?

Trumpsters: I don't know, but there's got to be another option. *searches around desperately* Can't find any.
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This after they learned that 15 guys followed kashoggi. One with a bone saw....
 
Mycroft said:
My bad...so, brain in jar theory. Otherwise known as brain in a vat theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat

No. That choice doesn't apply, either. Per that theory, artificial facts are being presented to a brain that is isolated from reality. My brain isn't isolated from reality.
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Are you certain of that? If your brain was being kept in a vat, how would you know?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The Saudis made the mistake of eliminating 'the problem' in such a sloppy manner. Use of a 'street crime', a 'suicide/terrorist bombing' or even a tragic auto/aircraft 'accident' would have been the better call. The bottom line is that they knew that they could get away with it so why even bother making it appear to be collateral damage - sending a very clear message to others that might dare to become a 'problem' in the future.
Click to expand...

Yes. This methodology is an imitation of Vladimir Putin who also murders regime enemies on foreign soil (Salisbury) and then simply denies the forensic evidence.

Putin knows that nothing meaningful can be done about his murders. The oil-rich Saudis have rolled the dice (with a sympathetic Trump in their vest pocket) that they are also beyond meaningful consequence.

The MBS regime has already threatened to employ their oil weapon if consequences to the Kashoggi assassination are levied.

Saudi Arabia hinted at a U.S. oil embargo. It’s not 1973.
 
Mycroft said:
Sorry, but just because some Turkish guy says he heard an audio recording and talks about what he heard doesn't make it a fact.

Get back to me when the recording is publicly available.
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Why? So you can claim there's no evidence that it's his voice?
 
Cardinal said:
Are you certain of that? If your brain was being kept in a vat, how would you know?
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shrug...

Present me with the facts that prove my brain is in a vat.
 
Cardinal said:
Why? So you can claim there's no evidence that it's his voice?
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That question can be resolved with investigation. You know...facts.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
Aw how cute. Trumpsters are having a hard time dealing with the fact that The President and his son in law are in the pockets of a murdering corrupt despot.



This after they learned that 15 guys followed kashoggi. One with a bone saw....
Click to expand...

So...you are taking the second option. Okay...your choice.
 
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