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Should Sears/Kmart get any more time.

Should Sears/Kmart get any more time.

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 27.3%

  • No

    Votes: 8 72.7%
  • Total voters
    11
H

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man
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They are in bankruptcy, shocking I know. They want to close 150 more stores and get to about 400 I think I heard, this a company that is now in real dollar terms maybe 5% of what it used to be...they want to keep operating.

Is there any point?

Should the courts let them continue to draw this out, should they be allowed to come out of bankruptcy?




I say no....there is no way they make it...Kill them now!
 
If they can submit a feasible reorganization plan
 
Hawkeye10 said:
They are in bankruptcy, shocking I know. They want to close 150 more stores and get to about 400 I think I heard, this a company that is now in real dollar terms maybe 5% of what it used to be...they want to keep operating.

Is there any point?

Should the courts let them continue to draw this out, should they be allowed to come out of bankruptcy?




I say no....there is no way they make it...Kill them now!
Click to expand...

I fail to see why I should care, save for what happens to the employees, and whether or not other retailers fill in the gap and offer Wal-Mart and Amazon anything in the way of competition. As I understand it, K-Mart hasn't been competitive for a long time.

I'm not really concerned with whether or not K-Mart/SEARS survives, but I do hope that the death of such a company doesn't simply end with the existing major retailers cornering the market that much more.
 
There used to be a Kmart and a Sears in my city, now both are gone. The only thing that you might miss is the tools and appliances that Sears sold, but thats about it. But there is nothing they sold that you cant now get at Walmart, Target, Lowes or HOme Depot.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
They are in bankruptcy, shocking I know. They want to close 150 more stores and get to about 400 I think I heard, this a company that is now in real dollar terms maybe 5% of what it used to be...they want to keep operating.

Is there any point?

Should the courts let them continue to draw this out, should they be allowed to come out of bankruptcy?

I say no....there is no way they make it...Kill them now!
Click to expand...

The whole point of bankruptcy laws is to determine how a company goes out of business or recover from unsustainable debt, and this likely to boil down to what Sears presents in terms of a plan to deal with one or the other. It looks like they are going with the latter as their argument.

The judge will have to figure this one out, but what the courts are unlikely to do is force immediate closure just cause.
 
Fletch said:
There used to be a Kmart and a Sears in my city, now both are gone. The only thing that you might miss is the tools and appliances that Sears sold, but thats about it. But there is nothing they sold that you cant now get at Walmart, Target, Lowes or HOme Depot.
Click to expand...

Yup, the tools are good. Lowes has picked up the Craftsman brand. Kenmore appliances (which are actually Whirlpool, LG, Electrolux, Panasonic and Cleva North America) will probably be picked up by someone.
 
It's really sad for the employees.

But from a purely business point of view, those two companies should probably pack it in.

Amazon has changed the retail game.

That's the brutal fact.

This is a new world, what with robots, AI, etc.

I am very old, so …

You young people, however, are going to see a lot of startling changes. Good luck!
 
Kal'Stang said:
Why??
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We can start with that they are majorly owned and run by a guy who either never wanted them to make it or else he has no clue how to run the company.

At this point they have few stores and the stores they have are a disaster because no one has invested in them in decades, plus the brand reputation is in tatters, plus people are increasingly buying online not in stores anyways....there is zero reason for Sears/Kmart to exist now......there is neither money to fix this company nor is there any reason to make the attempt.

Tangent: I just realized last week that the massive Tacoma Mall store is closed. JCP will not be far behind.
 
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hanger4 said:
Yup, the tools are good. Lowes has picked up the Craftsman brand. Kenmore appliances (which are actually Whirlpool, LG, Electrolux, Panasonic and Cleva North America) will probably be picked up by someone.
Click to expand...

I think that at this point the Kenmore brand has little value.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
They are in bankruptcy, shocking I know. They want to close 150 more stores and get to about 400 I think I heard, this a company that is now in real dollar terms maybe 5% of what it used to be...they want to keep operating.

Is there any point?

Should the courts let them continue to draw this out, should they be allowed to come out of bankruptcy?

I say no....there is no way they make it...Kill them now!
Click to expand...

Red:
Is there any point? Well, that'd depend on whether it's profitable to operate and be "in real dollar terms...5% of what it used to be."

All sorts of purveyors/producers operate today at volumes (having company value) well below what they used to. Some examples include:
  • Handmade garment fabricators
  • Rug weavers
  • Typewriter producers
  • Horse-drawn transportation businesses
Think of something that's nearly obsolete or a firm that failed to compete favorably but that is still in business and profitable, albeit at with far less gross income than in days long gone, and you'll have identified a business that is yet worth keeping going. I see no reason why Sears/Kmart should not be among such organizations if its managers can find a way to make it be so.
 
Xelor said:
Red:
Is there any point? Well, that'd depend on whether it's profitable to operate and be "in real dollar terms...5% of what it used to be."

All sorts of purveyors/producers operate today at volumes (having company value) well below what they used to. Some examples include:
  • Handmade garment fabricators
  • Rug weavers
  • Typewriter producers
  • Horse-drawn transportation businesses
Think of something that's nearly obsolete or a firm that failed to compete favorably but that is still in business and profitable, albeit at with far less gross income than in days long gone, and you'll have identified a business that is yet worth keeping going. I see no reason why Sears/Kmart should not be among such organizations if its managers can find a way to make it be so.
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Even if it is theoretically possible for them to be a stable profitable company now they have either been unable or unwilling to do so to date, remembering that both brands have been in near consistent decline for around 30 years. Given that and all the slimy crap Lampert has done I say liquidate now to give the creditors their best shot of getting paid all that they are due, the court does not owe Sears any more chances at life.
 
my hometown still has a Kmart. i worked night stock one summer, and it was a decent job. we're rural enough that i wonder if they'll keep to going anyway.
 
Fletch said:
There used to be a Kmart and a Sears in my city, now both are gone. The only thing that you might miss is the tools and appliances that Sears sold, but thats about it. But there is nothing they sold that you cant now get at Walmart, Target, Lowes or HOme Depot.
Click to expand...

Sears sold the Craftsman label a couple years back.Try Lowes. They carry them.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
They are in bankruptcy, shocking I know. They want to close 150 more stores and get to about 400 I think I heard, this a company that is now in real dollar terms maybe 5% of what it used to be...they want to keep operating.

Is there any point?

Should the courts let them continue to draw this out, should they be allowed to come out of bankruptcy?




I say no....there is no way they make it...Kill them now!
Click to expand...

I thought I heard today that Sears had declared bankruptcy. No Chapter 11.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I think that at this point the Kenmore brand has little value.
Click to expand...

They seem to produce a decent quality washing machine. Kenmore refrigerators and freezers seem to be about as good/bad as the bulk of their closest competitors. I can't say to what extent the actual performance record of a Kenmore appliance determines the value of the brand (brand value being an intangible asset that is only specifically measurable upon the sale of the brand name itself).
AFAIK, Sears hasn't been purchased by anyone, so the fair value of whatever "goodwill" (brand value) it has is indeterminate.[SUP]1[/SUP]


Note:
  1. As of 2001:
    • Goodwill is the difference between what a company paid for an acquisition and the book value of the net assets of the acquired company. Prior to 2001, analysts, creditors and shareholders found it difficult to know precisely how much goodwill a company had on its balance sheet because companies called it different things and often lumped it together with other identifiable intangible assets. With the 2001 standards, FASB mandates a purchase accounting method for business combinations that requires companies to conduct an annual goodwill impairment test based on the fair value of the reporting unit. Since companies can apply only the purchase method, they must recognize goodwill as an asset on financial statements and present it as a separate line item on the balance sheet. However, the goodwill asset will not be amortized.
    • Click the link above for a more comprehensive explanation.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Understanding that creditors will get shafted.....

You dont have compassion for them?
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I have compassion for the employees, some who have made lifelong careers from working at Sears.
 
Sears/KMart haven't shown ANY ability to change with the times. So their time is done. I see no future for them.
 
trixare4kids said:
I have compassion for the employees, some who have made lifelong careers from working at Sears.
Click to expand...

I hear that the economy is great at the moment, and it will not last, so now is the perfect time to put these people on the street if that is where they are going to end up anyways, which I say is the likely outcome, because this company is unsalvageable.

Besides, how would you like to have to haul yourself into a Sears store or at HeadQuarters everyday....doesn't that sound depressing....closing Sears might be good for the Employees mental health too!
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
They are in bankruptcy, shocking I know. They want to close 150 more stores and get to about 400 I think I heard, this a company that is now in real dollar terms maybe 5% of what it used to be...they want to keep operating.

Is there any point?

Should the courts let them continue to draw this out, should they be allowed to come out of bankruptcy?




I say no....there is no way they make it...Kill them now!
Click to expand...

Under the present plan to reorganize, Sears is doing the smart thing. Brick and mortar stores are dropping like flies, so Sears is reducing the number of those stores, while still keeping it's internet sales alive. On top of that, Sears has their fingers in other ventures that are doing well. One of those is Service Live, where contractors perform jobs for other major companies. As general manager of the HVAC company I work for, we are a member of Service Live, and do contracting work for Sears, Google Nest, Flushmate, and other brands. Sears hooks everybody up, controls the scheduling of the contractors, and takes 10% off the top to cover it's overhead and make profit. It was a pretty smart move setting all that up.

To insinuate that Sears is not good enough to make it in the marketplace is just dumb. What Sears is doing is reorganizing according to where the market is now headed. Brick and mortar stores are seeing much less business, and losing money, so "retuning your business plan" with that in mind, and to stay in business, is the way to go.

NOTE: If you are a contractor with the proper licenses, insurance, and reputation, I would urge you to apply for membership at Service Live. The don't pay "top dollar", but since I got our company in there, we have hired 2 more full time technicians. For us, it's a great way to grow a business, as it does keep our guys working, and is also a great way to add to the customer base. And, after you do a job for Service Live, when the customer calls you again, you are then representing your own company. Last week I did a manual J load analysis and wrote out a proposal for a complete HVAC system replacement for a customer who called us a couple of weeks after we installed a Google Nest Thermostat at his home. We did not make that much on the t-stat install, but we made out great on the system replacement. We win, Sears wins, the customer wins. What's not to like about that?
 
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danarhea said:
Under the present plan to reorganize, Sears is doing the smart thing. Brick and mortar stores are dropping like flies, so Sears is reducing the number of those stores, while still keeping it's internet sales alive. On top of that, Sears has their fingers in other ventures that are doing well. One of those is Service Live, where contractors perform jobs for other major companies. As general manager of the HVAC company I work for, we are a member of Service Live, and do contracting work for Sears, Google Nest, Flushmate, and other brands. Sears hooks everybody up, controls the scheduling of the contractors, and takes 10% off the top to cover it's overhead and make profit. It was a pretty smart move setting all that up.

To insinuate that Sears is not good enough to make it in the marketplace is just dumb. What Sears is doing is reorganizing according to where the market is now headed. Brick and mortar stores are seeing much less business, and losing money, so "retuning your business plan" with that in mind, and to stay in business, is the way to go.

NOTE: If you are a contractor with the proper licenses, insurance, and reputation, I would urge you to apply for membership at Service Live. The don't pay "top dollar", but since I got our company in there, we have hired 2 more full time technicians. For us, it's a great way to grow a business, as it does keep our guys working, and is also a great way to add to the customer base. And, after you do a job for Service Live, when the customer calls you again, you are then representing your own company. Last week I did a manual J load analysis and wrote out a proposal for a complete HVAC system replacement for a customer who called us a couple of weeks after we installed a Google Nest Thermostat at his home. We did not make that much on the t-stat install, but we made out great on the system replacement. We win, Sears wins, the customer wins. What's not to like about that?
Click to expand...

Here is the former CEO of Sears Canada shredding your argument:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/15/sears-was-toast-ever-since-kmart-merger-former-sears-canada-ceo.html
 
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