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Could The Handmaid's Tale going from dystopian fiction to true-life documentary for the US?

Could The Handmaid's Tale going from dystopian fiction to true-life documentary for the US?

  • Total voters
    46
Rosie1 said:
I read the book years ago. I thought it could happen, if the right was allowed to go too far. And there are places in Southern Utah, not far from it now.
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I know the fundamental Mormons do think they are supposed to have lots and lots of kids. The women refer to themselves as the mother of nations. I have always wondered what would happen if a young Mormon girl could not become pregnant. That type of fundamentalism could lead to a lot of problems, especially if taken to a mainstream level. Everybody in America can't have 20 or more kids.
 
Josie said:
Can you provide some quotes?
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The Mormon position on women has changed little since the early 1800's, when the official view was that "woman's primary place is in the home, where she is to rear children and abide by the righteous counsel of her husband" (McConkie 844).
 
Winchester said:
The Mormon position on women has changed little since the early 1800's, when the official view was that "woman's primary place is in the home, where she is to rear children and abide by the righteous counsel of her husband" (McConkie 844).
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That's the general traditional thinking of many religions. But how does that translate to them wanting a government that forces women to be surrogates for the elite?
 
Winchester said:
The Mormon position on women has changed little since the early 1800's, when the official view was that "woman's primary place is in the home, where she is to rear children and abide by the righteous counsel of her husband" (McConkie 844).
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And the Mormon population is what, 3%? 4% if that?

Is there a chance in hell of their views becoming mainstream?
 
Cardinal said:
Civilizations are capable of going to as many depraved places as you can imagine, and America isn't immune to any of it.

And before anybody sees the mere possibility of the Handmaid's Tale as something so goofy that it either couldn't happen here or wouldn't happen for decades, consider that all it would take is one...one...comment by Trump seriously entertaining the notion (you know, to troll the libs) to cause 44% of the country to automatically accept it as a good idea.

Edit: no, I don't think Trump would suggest it. My only point is that the line between where we are and unthinkable shifts in national dialogue is much more precarious than a lot of people appreciate. If I had gone back two years in time and told everybody that the Republican Party would hate Canada, hate NATO and identify with Russia more than they identify with their fellow Americans, I would have been laughed out of every room.

The kind of poll option I could have voted for would have been, "Anything is possible and American Exceptionalism won't save us from it."
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I agree. I am tired of people just deferring to the argument that that will never happen in America. It's a position that is far too cynical and reveals the person as carefree and not active nor willing to do anything personally. To think our government, elected leaders, and consititition will infalliably protect us, is civically irresponsible.

I remember people saying Trump would not deport people. Trump would not put people in Japanese style camps, and we are there. Many people saying it would never happen, don't even criticize the policies. Instead they promote all of Trump's talking points.

The same can be said of the Muslim ban. It's been argued and debated in courts, held up, etc. and the rhetoric has been changed to travel ban. The media circus causes distraction, so we are at the point that we don't know what exactly the Trump Admin is doing on the southern boarder, or for people wanting to immigrate from places like Iran, Iraq, etc. Meanwhile Trump is appointing judges and shaping courts with his absurd political opinions.

I am really tired of the, that's not going to happen here crowd.

There is a famous WW2 quote on that. First they went for the labor unions and so on. These people sit around and keep saying that line will not be crossed.
 
SheWolf said:
I agree. I am tired of people just deferring to the argument that that will never happen in America. It's a position that is far too cynical and reveals the person as carefree and not active nor willing to do anything personally. To think our government, elected leaders, and consititition will infalliably protect us, is civically irresponsible.

I remember people saying Trump would not deport people. Trump would not put people in Japanese style camps, and we are there. Many people saying it would never happen, don't even criticize the policies. Instead they promote all of Trump's talking points.

The same can be said of the Muslim ban. It's been argued and debated in courts, held up, etc. and the rhetoric has been changed to travel ban. The media circus causes distraction, so we are at the point that we don't know what exactly the Trump Admin is doing on the southern boarder, or for people wanting to immigrate from places like Iran, Iraq, etc. Meanwhile Trump is appointing judges and shaping courts with his absurd political opinions.

I am really tired of the, that's not going to happen here crowd.

There is a famous WW2 quote on that. First they went for the labor unions and so on. These people sit around and keep saying that line will not be crossed.
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The Muslim ban and family separation were two other things I had in mind as examples of sudden, unthinkable shifts. Here are just some of the "unthinkable" events that happened in just two short years, off the top of my head:

1. Separating families at the border and holding their children in internment camps, all completely without due process.
2. Banning "undesirable" religions from entering the country.
3. A break with our allies.
4. The abandonment of the core mandate of NATO.
5. The chilling of relations with ****ing Canada, with Republican voters agreeing that Canada is a hostile trading partner.
6. The embrace by Republicans of Russia at the expense of our allies and fellow Americans.
7. The destruction of the barrier between the White House and the Department of Justice, with the justification of its use in persecuting political enemies and defending political allies.
8. The tacit acceptance by Republicans in the President refusing to show his tax returns, dissolve his businesses and rampantly profiting from his office.

"Too many red lines have been crossed. Our home has in fundamental ways been polluted by avarice and political megalomania. We convince ourselves that sudden change is something that happens outside the normal order of things, like a car crash or that it's beyond our control like a fatal illness...we don't conceive of sudden, radical, irrational change as woven into the very fabric of existence. Yet I can assure you it most assuredly is, and it's happening now."

-Dr. Malcom, Jurassic World

A quote about dinosaurs seems designed to apply to politics today. So the question isn't "Could Handmaiden's Tale happen here." but rather "Why couldn't it?"
 
Josie said:
That's the general traditional thinking of many religions. But how does that translate to them wanting a government that forces women to be surrogates for the elite?
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If she is talking about polygamy, it's not general religious thinking, especially not in modern times. I haven't read the Handmaidens Tale but I have read a lot about the FLDS, and what Warren Jeffs has actually done and the abuse those women and girls have endured is probably worse than the Handmaidens Tale.
 
Cardinal said:
The Muslim ban and family separation were two other things I had in mind as examples of sudden, unthinkable shifts. Here are just some of the "unthinkable" events that happened in just two short years, off the top of my head:

1. Separating families at the border and holding their children in internment camps, all completely without due process.
2. Banning "undesirable" religions from entering the country.
3. A break with our allies.
4. The abandonment of the core mandate of NATO.
5. The chilling of relations with ****ing Canada, with Republican voters agreeing that Canada is a hostile trading partner.
6. The embrace by Republicans of Russia at the expense of our allies and fellow Americans.
7. The destruction of the barrier between the White House and the Department of Justice, with the justification of its use in persecuting political enemies and defending political allies.
8. The tacit acceptance by Republicans in the President refusing to show his tax returns, dissolve his businesses and rampantly profiting from his office.

"Too many red lines have been crossed. Our home has in fundamental ways been polluted by avarice and political megalomania. We convince ourselves that sudden change is something that happens outside the normal order of things, like a car crash or that it's beyond our control like a fatal illness...we don't conceive of sudden, radical, irrational change as woven into the very fabric of existence. Yet I can assure you it most assuredly is, and it's happening now."

-Dr. Malcom, Jurassic World

A quote about dinosaurs seems designed to apply to politics today. So the question isn't "Could Handmaiden's Tale happen here." but rather "Why couldn't it?"
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He banned a religion?

When?
 
Manc Skipper said:
The American enlightenment is contaminated by Dominionism and the experiment is failing. Such extremism could take the Gilead road.
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I guess we go back to kings and clerics. You'd let that happen, huh? And that doesn't make you feel like a coward?

Of course you wouldn't. And no one else would. We're not going backward.
 
An "Other" choice would have been nice.

I think the theocratic nonsense will increase due to Trump's judiciary, but the "handmaids needed due to infertility" thing isn't going to happen.
Try this:
https://www.alternet.org/my-conservative-christian-nightmare-i-spent-16-years-abusive-religious-sect
If you have not heard of the Quiverfull movement, I’ll sum it up by saying that Quiverfull is an all-encompassing vision of a big, happy, godly family which affects every aspect of a so-called True Believer’s life. Probably the most recognizable Quiverfull family in America is reality TV’s Duggar family of 19 Kids and Counting fame.

You'll find Quiverfull families in nearly all types of churches in every community. Quiverfull is simply the “pro-life” idea that truly godly families will “trust the Lord” with their family planning. Children are viewed as unmitigated blessings (“As arrows in the hand of the mighty man, so are the children of ones youth, happy is the man who hath hisquiver full of them:” Psalm 123), so couples are willing to have as many children as the Lord chooses. All methods of conception control are considered a lack of trust in God to provide for the “children of the righteous.”

At the heart of Quiverfull is patriarchy: the ideal of biblical headship and submission. This is the belief that by God’s perfect design, the father is the head of the home. The father serves as protector, provider and shepherd for his wife and children. He is primarily responsible for the wife’s and children’s physical, emotional and spiritual well-being and with such responsibility comes the (divinely granted) commensurate authority over the members of his household. According to this view, God works through the father and he serves as an intermediary for his wife and children. Honor, obedience and submission are highly valued qualities because they are necessary to maintain order and work together to accomplish the Lord’s vision for a godly family.
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Hey, I'm a white male! I get "dominion"!!!:2razz:

Now, SUBMIT!
 
ecofarm said:
I guess we go back to kings and clerics. You'd let that happen, huh? And that doesn't make you feel like a coward?

Of course you wouldn't. And no one else would. We're not going backward.
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38% of Americans are Creationists and 44% are climate change deniers. These blocs have been a powerful force in politics for the last forty years.
 
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Cardinal said:
38% of Americans are Creationists and 44% are climate change deniers. These blocs have been been a powerful force in politics for the last forty years.
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Now it's the left fearmongering. I never get a break.
 
ecofarm said:
I guess we go back to kings and clerics. You'd let that happen, huh? And that doesn't make you feel like a coward?

Of course you wouldn't. And no one else would. We're not going backward.
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You just don't realise it.
 
ecofarm said:
Now it's the left fearmongering. I never get a break.
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Fear mongering? I'm just stating a fact. 38% and 44% are gigantic numbers for such beliefs. To suggest that these blocs haven't been drags on infrastructural, environmental and educational policy isn't reasonable.
 
Cardinal said:
Fear mongering? I'm just stating a fact. 38% and 44% are gigantic numbers for such beliefs. To suggest that these blocs haven't been drags on infrastructural, environmental and educational policy isn't reasonable.
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Seriously? You're gonna take a poorly worded poll designed to produce bombshell results and act like "them's the facts".

I understand religion can be used in an anti intellectual manner. Religion is an abstract object, a tool, and only means what someone does with it. It doesn't have a will of its own. It's an object. It's not to be feared; it's to be employed, manipulated or used as a communication device. Stop fearing objects.

No amount of ridiculous polls will make me fear an object.
 
ecofarm said:
Seriously? You're gonna take a poorly worded poll designed to produce bombshell results and act like "them's the facts".

I understand religion can be used in an anti intellectual manner. Religion is an abstract object, a tool, and only means what someone does with it. It doesn't have a will of its own. It's an object. It's not to be fear, it's to be employed, manipulated or used as a communication device. Stop fearing objects.
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I'm not bashing religion, and if the poll had been well written I would have voted in it. But the immediate dismissal of this kind of dystopia ignores that sudden and unthinkable shifts in national policy has already happened essentially overnight, and it ignores that we have people who hold irrational beliefs and exist in significant numbers to seriously impact national policy.

Yeah, I get it. Everything about A Handmaid's Tale looks goofy as hell. It's designed to look as improbable as possible, but to consider it an outright impossibility requires ignoring that the fundamental stepping stones to that type of dystopia exist.
 
Cardinal said:
I'm not bashing religion, and if the poll had been well written I would have voted in it. But the immediate dismissal of this kind of dystopia ignores that sudden and unthinkable shifts in national policy has already happened essentially overnight, and it ignores that we have people who hold irrational beliefs and exist in significant numbers to seriously impact national policy.
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I get the negative impact of some people using religion for their purposes (using the name in vain).

But the radical fundies are few and have no real support in mainstream religion. They're a "crazy uncle" that's tolerated because maybe there's some hope they really will find God.

Yeah, I get it. Everything about A Handmaid's Tale looks goofy as hell. It's designed to look as improbable as possible, but to consider it an outright impossibility requires ignoring that the fundamental stepping stones to that type of dystopia exist.
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I'm not familiar. I'm guessing based on Chaucer.
 
Rosie1 said:
I read the book years ago. I thought it could happen, if the right was allowed to go too far. And there are places in Southern Utah, not far from it now.
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Josie said:
Who on the right wants or would want women to be forced to be surrogates for the elite?
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Rosie?
 
Humans having a lower reproduction rate would be a boon for humanity. Overpopulation is the single biggest source of our woes.
 
ecofarm said:
The Enlightenment, an understanding of socially natural rights which lead to such realizations as the American and French Revolutions, defeated dogmatic religious authority hundreds of years ago and that will not change.
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The Left today is basically a religion already, driving towards UTOPIA, perfectly fine with using violence to get there....

Ya, things will get worse.
 
ecofarm said:
I get the negative impact of some people using religion for their purposes (using the name in vain).

But the radical fundies are few and have no real support in mainstream religion. They're a "crazy uncle" that's tolerated because maybe there's some hope they really will find God.



I'm not familiar. I'm guessing based on Chaucer.
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Those crazy uncle toms are the reason we can't have a strong environmental national policy that extends beyond a Democrat Presidential administration.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The Left today is basically a religion already, driving towards UTOPIA, perfectly fine with using violence to get there....

Ya, things will get worse.
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Why did I view? I knew it would be sad sap victim culture BS. Morbid curiosity got me again.
 
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