Mantafort plea deal bad for Trump/Family/Campaign members

JANFU · Sep 14, 2018

Mantafort plea deal bad for Trump/Family/Campaign members

Yes -Will led to more Felonies charges
No -No will not lead to more Felony charges
Other
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/406800-mueller-threat-to-trump-grows-with-manafort-deal

Still, Manafort’s cooperation agreement with Mueller means that he will interview with the special counsel, testify in any upcoming cases and hand over documents related to the investigation, putting a new body of evidence at Mueller’s disposal.

Manafort also waived his right to have an attorney present at any interviews with federal investigators, and the deal itself makes no mention of the Trump campaign – meaning the topic is on the table for those interviews.

“[The implications for Trump] could be huge,” said former federal prosecutor Elie Honig of Manafort’s deal with Mueller.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-plea-deal-questions-823883

Winston · Sep 14, 2018

JANFU said:
Mantafort plea deal bad for Trump/Family/Campaign members

Yes -Will led to more Felonies charges
No -No will not lead to more Felony charges
Other
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/406800-mueller-threat-to-trump-grows-with-manafort-deal

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-plea-deal-questions-823883

I didn't think Manafort had anything on Trump, until Trump's panicked tweets and running to pardon in the aftermath of the Manafort conviction. Trump went for the pardon wand immediately. Speaking as someone who has read reporting in various outlets: it appears that McGahn put the breaks on the Manafort pardon. And hence, McGahn is getting excused from the White House himself.

So, panicked tweets + rush to pardon = Manafort has something Trump does not want Mueller to have.

I don't know what it is, but, I think, yes, it does implicate either Trump or his family.

Rogue Valley · Sep 14, 2018

Paul Manafort had a front row seat during the infamous Trump Tower meeting.

This plea deal leaves Don Jr. and Jared Kushner extremely vulnerable to being indicted.

Winston · Sep 14, 2018

Rogue Valley said:
Paul Manafort had a front row seat during the infamous Trump Tower meeting.

This plea deal leaves Don Jr. and Jared Kushner extremely vulnerable to being indicted.

Also slim to none chance that the big cheeto himself didn't know about that meeting.

Remember Trump has denied knowledge of the meeting. If history is a teacher, that means he knew about the meeting.

year2late · Sep 14, 2018

Without a doubt the plea deal will lead to more subpoenas and with possible indictments. Who those people will be, I can only speculate. But I would think the Trump family would be a smidge nervous. If Trump is smart, he will put the twitterbox down and stop looking so guilty.

Captain Adverse · Sep 14, 2018

I don't understand why people think this plea deal is "bad" for the Trump Administration.

According to the plea deal citing the "Conspiracy against the United States" charge here:

From in or about and between 2006 and 2017, both dates being approximate and inclusive,in the District of Columbia and elsewhere, the defendant PAUL J. MANAFORT, JR., together with others, including Gates and Kilimnik, knowingly and intentionally conspired to defraud the United States by impeding, impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful governmental functions of a government agency, namely the Department of Justice and the Department of the Treasury, and to commit offenses against the United States, to wit, (a) money laundering (in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1956); (b) tax fraud (in violation of 26 U.S.C. § 7206(1)); (c) failing to file Foreign Bank Account Reports (in violation of 31 U.S.C. §§ 5312 and 5322(b)); (d) violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act (in violation of 22 U.S.C. §§ 612, 618(a)(1), and 618(a)(2)); and (e) lying and misrepresenting to the Department of Justice (in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1001(a) and 22 U.S.C. §§ 612 and 618(a)(2)).

Superseding criminal information against Paul J. Manafort - The Washington Post

So on the face of this issue, it has NOTHING to do with Trump-Russian Election Conspiracy.

It is all about Manafort's Ukrainian money laundering, tax fraud, failing to file foreign bank account reports, failing to register as a foreign agent for the prior issues, and lying to the DOJ about this activity. All but the lying occurred prior to 2016.

Recall, several Ukrainian and perhaps some Russian business parties were indicted over these "financial" crimes.

Therefore it is more likely than not whatever cooperation agreement Manafort made would be concerning witness testimony in the prosecution of those indicted foreign co-conspirators in the money-laundering scheme.

I suppose it's possible Trump or some member of his family might have some connection to this pre-campaign period scheme, but I see no allegations as an "unindicted co-conspirator" nor any "singing and composing" of such as of yet.

ALiberalModerate · Sep 14, 2018

JANFU said:
Mantafort plea deal bad for Trump/Family/Campaign members

Yes -Will led to more Felonies charges
No -No will not lead to more Felony charges
Other
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/406800-mueller-threat-to-trump-grows-with-manafort-deal

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-plea-deal-questions-823883

Trump is an utterly despicable human being. The problem for despicable people like Trump is they tend to surround themselves with other despicable people and those despicable people are not very loyal when push comes to shove.

JANFU · Sep 14, 2018

Captain Adverse said:
I don't understand why people think this plea deal is "bad" for the Trump Administration.

According to the plea deal citing the "Conspiracy against the United States" charge here:

Superseding criminal information against Paul J. Manafort - The Washington Post

So on the face of this issue, it has NOTHING to do with Trump-Russian Election Conspiracy.

It is all about Manafort's Ukrainian money laundering, tax fraud, failing to file foreign bank account reports, failing to register as a foreign agent for the prior issues, and lying to the DOJ about this activity.

Recall, several Ukrainian and perhaps some Russian business parties were indicted over these "financial" crimes.

Therefore it is more likely than not whatever cooperation agreement Manafort made would be concerning witness testimony in the prosecution of those indicted foreign co-conspirators in the money-laundering scheme.

I suppose it's possible Trump or some member of his family might have some connection to this pre-election period scheme, but I see no allegations as an "unindicted co-conspirator" nor any "singing and composing" of such as of yet.

It gains insight into a campaign, that you know was in chaos. It will also lead to K Street and one significant Legal company with world wide offices & connections.
No one knows what he offered to the Russian he owed money to make him whole for monies owed.
No one knows if openings were made to the Russian Govt
No one knows why the Trump campaign wanted to open back channel communications before they were in office.
No one knows who aside from Flynn were aware of Flynn's communications with Russians regarding sanctions enacted by Obama
He cannot access or use a lawyer during any interviews
Basically a ton of information

year2late · Sep 14, 2018

Rogue Valley said:
Paul Manafort had a front row seat during the infamous Trump Tower meeting.

This plea deal leaves Don Jr. and Jared Kushner extremely vulnerable to being indicted.

I just cannot get this Hamilton tune out of my mind.

[BURR & ENSEMBLE]
No one else was in
The room where it happened
The room where it happened
The room where it happened
No one else was in
The room where it happened (The room where it happened)
The room where it happened
The room where it happened (The room where it happened)
No one really knows how the game is played (Game is played)
The art of the trade
How the sausage gets made (How the sausage gets made)
We just assume that it happens (Assume that it happens)
But no one else is in
The room where it happens. (The room where it happens.)

rickc · Sep 14, 2018

year2late said:
I just cannot get this Hamilton tune out of my mind.

manafort was with Jarad and jr when they met the russians. manafort took notes. Good.chance the justice department has those notes now.

Captain Adverse · Sep 14, 2018

JANFU said:
It gains insight into a campaign, that you know was in chaos. It will also lead to K Street and one significant Legal company with world wide offices & connections.

It doesn't gain ANY "insight" into a "campaign 'you know' was in chaos."

It's always been my opinion that Trump never expected to win. That's why he didn't invest in much of a campaign staff. Why he didn't woo much financial support, or glad-hand RINO's. Why he didn't gather a group of experienced political experts to develop policy matters, etc..

He just wanted to go out and "speechify" to give him greater current name recognition. IMO his victory was probably as much of a surprise to him as to anyone else.

JANFU said:
No one knows what he offered to the Russian he owed money to make him whole for monies owed.
No one knows if openings were made to the Russian Govt
No one knows why the Trump campaign wanted to open back channel communications before they were in office.
No one knows who aside from Flynn were aware of Flynn's communications with Russians regarding sanctions enacted by Obama
He cannot access or use a lawyer during any interviews
Basically a ton of information

Basically a TON OF SPECULATION based on personal animus, coupled with innuendo, guilt by association, and assumption bias. :shrug:

Again, IMO it is more likely than not Manafort will be a witness against both the foreign and any other American co-conspirators involved in the pre-campaign money laundering etc. shenanigans.

Anything else is just wishful thinking at this point (as usual).

Cardinal · Sep 14, 2018

JANFU said:
Mantafort plea deal bad for Trump/Family/Campaign members

Yes -Will led to more Felonies charges
No -No will not lead to more Felony charges
Other
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/406800-mueller-threat-to-trump-grows-with-manafort-deal

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-plea-deal-questions-823883

The defense teams of Trump and Manafort had a joint defense agreement, which strongly suggests Trump's and Manafort's activities were mixed up with each other. So since Manafort has agreed to give a full disclosure of all the people he did any crimes with, and if one of those people is Trump or his family, then Trump and/or members of his family are screwed. At the very least, this will not be good for other members of the campaign since possessing the morality of a carpenter ant was apparently the prerequisite for being on the campaign.

JANFU · Sep 14, 2018

Captain Adverse said:
It doesn't gain ANY "insight" into a "campaign 'you know' was in chaos."

It's always been my opinion that Trump never expected to win. That's why he didn't invest in much of a campaign staff. Why he didn't woo much financial support, or glad-hand RINO's. Why he didn't gather a group of experienced political experts to develop policy matters, etc..

He just wanted to go out and "speechify" to give him greater current name recognition. IMO his victory was probably as much of a surprise to him as to anyone else.

Basically a TON OF SPECULATION based on personal animus, coupled with innuendo, guilt by association, and assumption bias. :shrug:

Again, it is more likely than not Manafort will be a witness against the foreign co-conspirators involved in the pre-campaign money laundering etc. shenanigans.

Anything else is just wishful thinking at this point (as usual).

That same thinking was rampant when Mueller was appointed. A few months later the clamoring for charges was significant, I am sure you can relate. Then Mueller began laying charges. Still the attacks continued. More charges. Well there are more, Mantafort flipped, and yes he is a key to the inside workings of the Campaign. You choose to ignore this, fine with me

JANFU · Sep 14, 2018

Cardinal said:
The defense teams of Trump and Manafort had a joint defense agreement, which strongly suggests Trump's and Manafort's activities were mixed up with each other. So since Manafort has agreed to give a full disclosure of all the people he did any crimes with, and if one of those people is Trump or his family, then Trump and/or members of his family are screwed. At the very least, this will not be good for other members of the campaign since possessing the morality of a carpenter ant was apparently the prerequisite for being on the campaign.

Good point I had forgotten abut that. Glad you have a better memory than I do.
People, from K Street, to the Trump inner circle to law firms that operate world wide are crapping in their pants.

haymarket · Sep 14, 2018

Manafort needs to make a call to the local oldies radio station and send out the old Rolling Stones song IT'S ALL OVER NOW dedicated to Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPSVchRaUW4

rickc · Sep 14, 2018

manafort was with Jarad and jr when they met the russians. manafort took notes. Good.chance the justice department has those notes now.

Captain Adverse · Sep 14, 2018

JANFU said:
That same thinking was rampant when Mueller was appointed. A few months later the clamoring for charges was significant, I am sure you can relate. Then Mueller began laying charges. Still the attacks continued. More charges. Well there are more, Mantafort flipped, and yes he is a key to the inside workings of the Campaign. You choose to ignore this, fine with me

Again, what charges were leveled that related directly to Mueller's primary investigation goal?

You have ONE "lying to government investigator's" plea of guilty...14 days in jail and the individual is denying Russia collusion.

ONE other pending "Lying" charge.

Then you have Manafort, convicted of eight counts and pleading guilty to other counts entirely concerned about un-related pre-election issues LISTED in the plea agreement.

Then you have Cohen, also pleading to crimes that had nothing to do with Trump-Russia collusion/conspiracy, along with an admission from his lawyer that Cohen has no knowledge of anything concerning such issues.

Please let me know when Mueller's investigation actually shows what he was appointed to prove/disprove. Then we can talk.

Cardinal · Sep 14, 2018

Captain Adverse said:
Again, what charges were leveled that related directly to Mueller's primary investigation goal?

You have ONE "lying to government investigator's" plea of guilty...14 days in jail and the individual is denying Russia collusion.

ONE other pending "Lying" charge.

Then you have Manafort, convicted of eight counts and pleading guilty to other counts entirely concerned about pre-election issues LISTED in the plea agreement.

Then you have Cohen, also pleading to crimes that had nothing to do with Trump-Russia collusion/conspiracy, along with an admission form his lawyer that Cohen has no knowledge of anything concerning such issues.

Please let me know when Mueller's investigation actually shows what he was appointed to prove. Then we can talk.

If I had told you a year ago that Trump's National Security Adviser, campaign director, foreign adviser, deputy campaign director and personal lawyer would all end up pleading guilty and/or serving prison time, would you have believed me?

rickc · Sep 14, 2018

Captain Adverse said:
Again, what charges were leveled that related directly to Mueller's primary investigation goal?

You have ONE "lying to government investigator's" plea of guilty...14 days in jail and the individual is denying Russia collusion.

ONE other pending "Lying" charge.

Then you have Manafort, convicted of eight counts and pleading guilty to other counts entirely concerned about un-related pre-election issues LISTED in the plea agreement.

Then you have Cohen, also pleading to crimes that had nothing to do with Trump-Russia collusion/conspiracy, along with an admission from his lawyer that Cohen has no knowledge of anything concerning such issues.

Please let me know when Mueller's investigation actually shows what he was appointed to prove/disprove. Then we can talk.

well when Jarad and Jr are hauled in to testify you can bet mueller has gotten the skinny from manafort about that meeting.

trump will blow a fuse at that point

mueller will not turn in the findings to Rosenstein until he has it all wrapped up with a bow on it.

lots more to come!

JANFU · Sep 14, 2018

Captain Adverse said:
Again, what charges were leveled that related directly to Mueller's primary investigation goal?

You have ONE "lying to government investigator's" plea of guilty...14 days in jail and the individual is denying Russia collusion.

ONE other pending "Lying" charge.

Then you have Manafort, convicted of eight counts and pleading guilty to other counts entirely concerned about un-related pre-election issues LISTED in the plea agreement.

Then you have Cohen, also pleading to crimes that had nothing to do with Trump-Russia collusion/conspiracy, along with an admission from his lawyer that Cohen has no knowledge of anything concerning such issues.

Please let me know when Mueller's investigation actually shows what he was appointed to prove/disprove. Then we can talk.

Then you have,which we do not have access to, or what Rosenstein authorized
Question- Do you support the Mueller instigation or is it a witch hunt?

Captain Adverse · Sep 14, 2018

Cardinal said:
If I had told you a year ago that Trump's National Security Adviser, campaign director, foreign adviser, deputy campaign director and personal lawyer would all end up pleading guilty and/or serving prison time, would you have believed me?

Red herring. But for once I'll answer.

The answer is yes, as a year ago was September 2017.

By that time the Russia Collusion/Election Tampering/Obstruction narrative was in full swing, and the Mueller investigation (IMO justified by a true conspiracy of DOJ/FBI personnel, abetted by the DNC, Fusion GPS, and elements of the MSM) was in full swing.

I knew that ANYONE subject to such intense scrutiny was bound to display some skeletons in their closet eventually.

JANFU said:
Then you have,which we do not have access to, or what Rosenstein authorized

Well...

There is this letter appointing Mueller as Special Counsel:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

JANFU said:
Question- Do you support the Mueller instigation or is it a witch hunt?

I've come to consider it a "witch hunt," although I hoped it would not be. :shrug:

Crosscheck · Sep 14, 2018

Rogue Valley said:
Paul Manafort had a front row seat during the infamous Trump Tower meeting.

This plea deal leaves Don Jr. and Jared Kushner extremely vulnerable to being indicted.

If that was to happen it is pretty good odds that trump will pardon them. And surprisingly I think it will only be a bump on the public's attention as there isn't much that could surprise us with this family.

Mycroft · Sep 14, 2018

JANFU said:
Mantafort plea deal bad for Trump/Family/Campaign members

Yes -Will led to more Felonies charges
No -No will not lead to more Felony charges
Other
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/406800-mueller-threat-to-trump-grows-with-manafort-deal

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-plea-deal-questions-823883

"Other"

All the stuff the article says the deal "means" is really nothing that Mueller can't get out of Manafort by using subpoenas, so I don't see how Mueller got anything out of the deal...except saving money since there's no need for a trial.

As far as all this speculation going on that Manafort will give Mueller something to use against Trump...yeah, at this point it nothing but speculation. Not worth my time.

lurchadams · Sep 14, 2018

Rogue Valley said:
Paul Manafort had a front row seat during the infamous Trump Tower meeting.

This plea deal leaves Don Jr. and Jared Kushner extremely vulnerable to being indicted.

That's what I was thinking. BUT - Mueller will need corroboration for anything Manafort testifies to - Manafort's a lying, treasonous sack of ****.

apdst · Sep 14, 2018

Winston said:
Also slim to none chance that the big cheeto himself didn't know about that meeting.

Remember Trump has denied knowledge of the meeting. If history is a teacher, that means he knew about the meeting.

The meeting wasn't illegal. So...so what?

Mantafort plea deal bad for Trump/Family/Campaign members

Mantafort plea deal bad for Trump/Family/Campaign members

Yes -Will led to more Felonies charges

No -Will not lead to more Felony charges

Other= Pls expalin

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