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What is preventing Trump from going Nuclear?

How likely is Trump to try and launch an illegal nuclear attack against the Muslim world(or any part

  • Very Good.

    Votes: 3 9.7%

  • Good, but his generals will convince him not to.

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Decent, but his generals will hopefully not follow orders.

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Decent, all it would take is a significant terrorist attack.

    Votes: 3 9.7%

  • Decent, if he thinks it will help him win re-election watch out.

    Votes: 4 12.9%

  • Doubtful, he's afraid his base will turn on him.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Doubtful, he's afraid Republican leadership will turn on him.

    Votes: 3 9.7%

  • Highly Unlikely, but only if there's an incredibly good reason for it.

    Votes: 8 25.8%

  • No way, Trump's moral compass would never allow him to do that.

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • No way, his generals will definitely not follow that order.

    Votes: 13 41.9%
  • Total voters
    31
Moderate Right said:
LOL. What a prejudiced, biased poll. What about the option that this poll belongs in the CT forum?
Click to expand...

Um...the OP didn't claim that trump launched an illegal attack against anyone. He asked how likely it would be for trump to do so. I don't think you know what "conspiracy theory" or "hypothetical scenario" means.
 
MrWonka said:
That assumes Trump will keep those officials in place. In fact, the combination of Woodward's book and this anonymous Op-Ed could very likely lead to the dismissal of any member of Trump's staff that he even thinks might disagree with him, and replacing him with even more extremists loyalists who would not stop him from going nuclear. That is why the Times agreed to keep the op-ed anonymous because they knew this person who might be in a position to stop Trump would be immediately fired and replaced with a person who would not stop Trump if their identity was revealed.
Click to expand...

If the author's intentions were benign, then the decision to write it was really, really stupid. Just how dumb do you have to be to write an editorial the President is going to read that lets him know that there are people in the White House actively opposing him? How does that help anything at all?
 
Cardinal said:
If the author's intentions were benign, then the decision to write it was really, really stupid. Just how dumb do you have to be to write an editorial the President is going to read that lets him know that there are people in the White House actively opposing him? How does that help anything at all?
Click to expand...
Because the author knows that Trump isn't smart enough to figure who is controlling him, or how they are doing it, and the public meltdown just further illustrates Wolf's, Woodward, and the authors point.

Trump is basically Homer Simpson in the WH.
 
On Saturday, Nov.17, 2017, the top officer at U.S. Strategic Command said an order from President Donald Trump or any of his successors to launch nuclear weapons can be refused if that order is determined to be illegal.

AF Gen. John Hyten the commander of the nuclear arsenal told Trump publicly what Trump could do with any "fire and fury" nuclear launch order. Gen. Hyten said his piece to the world 14 days after SecDef James Mattis appointed Hyten to his command.

Trump got shot down unprecedentedly for a CinC/Potus, which Trump is in name only....



The top U.S. nuclear commander said he would decline President Trump if he ordered a nuclear launch and it was deemed illegal




There are international standards and laws in the use of nuclear weapons to determine the illegal use order versus the legal use order. And when it's a raging lunatic who gives the order in the guise of the commander in chief, then the chiefs and commanders of the armed services who know the laws are compelled to act to stop him.




Here's the text of Gen. Hyten's statement....

AP) HALIFAX, Nova Scotia — The top officer at U.S. Strategic Command said Saturday an order from President Donald Trump or any of his successors to launch nuclear weapons can be refused if that order is determined to be illegal.

Air Force Gen.John Hyten, commander of Strategic Command, told a panel at the Halifax International Security Forum on Saturday that he and Trump have had conversations about such a scenario and that he would tell Trump he couldn’t carry out an illegal strike. “If it’s illegal, guess what’s going to happen. I’m going to say, ‘Mr President, that’s illegal.’ And guess what he’s going to do? He’s going to say, ‘What would be legal?’” Hyten said.

“And we’ll come up with options with a mix of capabilities to respond to whatever the situation is, and that’s the way it works. ”In the event that Trump decided to launch a nuclear attack, Hyten would provide him with strike options that are legal. The command would control nuclear forces in a war.

The comments come as the threat of nuclear attack from North Korea remains a serious concern and Trump’s critics question his temperament. Trump’s taunting tweets aimed at Pyongyang have sparked concerns primarily among congressional Democrats that he may be inciting a war with North Korea.

During testimony before the Foreign Relations Committee earlier this month, retired Gen. Robert Kehler who served as the head of Strategic Command from January 2011 to November 2013, also said the U.S.armed forces are obligated to follow legal orders, not illegal ones. Hyten said he’s talked it over with Trump. "I think some people think we’re stupid. We’re not stupid people. We think about these things a lot. When you have this responsibility how do you not think about it?” he said. He said he would not obey an illegal order. “You could go to jail for the rest of your life,” he said.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5i...upXVSsXG58pbGQ



Sure as shootin that last fact is what scared off Trump for good. Imagine the Trump Nuclear War Crimes Tribunal right in our own nation's capital besides. (We wouldn't let the Europeans mollycoddle him eh.) Gen. Hyten is btw former commander of Air Force Space Command. So Trump isn't the first space cadet he's run across. And over and through. Fortunately for everyone everywhere. If Trump today submitted a security clearance package to be a lieutenant in an Air Force silo launch station he'd be refused immediately and sent packing.
 
Also we learned there's a "Resistance" within Trump's administration that reign in his more dangerous tendencies, so we got that going for us.
 
Pentaton has worked up more options to use conventional weapons for any Potus who wants to go nuclear as a response to threats by foreign adversaries. That is, give a nuclear happy CinC options to use conventional weapons and forces first, perhaps only. This is now the policy for the National Command Authority, i.e., Potus/CinC.

The new enhanced conventional weapons nuclear policy was ordered by SecDef Mattis who appointed to oversee its development the AF Gen. John Hyten. Gen. Hyten is head of Strategic Command that possesses the nuclear arsenal.

The key change will be that Hyten will now be the sole senior officer responsible for nuclear command, control, communications operations and systems. In short, Trump has to get past Gen. Hyten. And SecDef Mattis who would confirm that it was Potus/CinC who gave a launch order before nuclear weapons would be launched. Before.



July 20, 2018


Mattis and Dunford call for classified nuclear changes

170903172805-01-james-mattis-presser-0903-exlarge-169.jpg

SecDef James Mattis and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine Corps General Joseph Dunford, who had previously been Marine Corps Commandant.


The report will detail a new method ordered by Mattis on how the Nuclear Command, Control, and Communications System (NC3), which allows a US president and top military commanders to communicate with military forces in a nuclear event, will work in the future. The NC3 provides communication with bomber aircraft, intercontinental ballistic missiles, submarines, satellites, ground stations and command posts.

The move to include conventional options as part of planning for nuclear war took on additional importance as tensions rose with North Korea, and the Pentagon leadership was looking for a wide range of military options to offer Trump, officials say.

Hyten noted that in February, Dunford and members of the Joint Staff rode on the National Airborne Operations Center in an exercise. That E-4 aircraft is used in a crisis essentially as an airborne command post. After the plane landed, "he called me, like within seconds. And I'll just say Gen. Dunford wasn't happy with the way the exercise went," Hyten said. "He said we should provide the President with more options, not fewer options."

Hyten, who has long advocated for de-escalation in a nuclear crisis, noted it's essential to "have other options for a President."

These changes are critical in the wake of months of tensions with North Korea and uncertainty about Russian intentions. Including conventional military options -- such as cyber or missile defense -- gives a President specific options in a crisis for de-escalation, something Hyten continues to advocate.

"Because the way conflict actually happens is that if it's going really, really bad, that's when it gets to nuclear. You don't want it to get really bad, so you want to apply every conventional aspect that you have to that," he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/19/politics/mattis-dunford-nuclear-changes/index.html



It is good to see and know that Trump is being checked from all sides. Trump meanwhile came out of his bunker today to campaign for the upcoming midterm election.
 
Last edited:
Nothing in that implies an checking of the President. In fact it directly says the change is about giving the President more options.
 
Aberration said:
Nothing in that implies an checking of the President. In fact it directly says the change is about giving the President more options.
Click to expand...

For a nuclear happy Potus/CinC who breathes fire and fury and who is erratic, ignorant and under the duress of a foreign hostile power. Ol' Bone Spurs is under his self-induced stresses and strains to include the election in less than 60 dayze closing in on him. Pentagon knows Trump is a wholly incompetent and oblivious CinC. A dangerous one in fact. An egomaniac.
 
MrWonka said:
How likely is Trump to try and launch an illegal but justified nuclear attack against the Muslim world(or any part of the world)?

Feel free to check all that apply.

Very Good.
Click to expand...

FTFY and thank you for the amusing poll.
 
MrWonka said:
Because his base would love it, and he thinks the fear of future bombings will end the war on terror. I've literally heard his supporters say things like... "Remember when we nuked Japan? We're really good friends with them now aren't we? They know not to **** with us and realized it's better to be on our side than against us."
Click to expand...

Wha??
 
Other:

He can't remember where the launch codes are.
 
Tangmo said:
For a nuclear happy Potus/CinC who breathes fire and fury and who is erratic, ignorant and under the duress of a foreign hostile power. Ol' Bone Spurs is under his self-induced stresses and strains to include the election in less than 60 dayze closing in on him. Pentagon knows Trump is a wholly incompetent and oblivious CinC. A dangerous one in fact. An egomaniac.
Click to expand...

If that was true they would do something other than give him more options.
 
Aberration said:
If that was true they would do something other than give him more options.
Click to expand...


Commander of the nuclear arsenal Gen. John Hyten of USAF said publicly he'd refuse an "illegal order" to launch a rain of missiles. If you don't know, this means any launch order from the 5th grader Trump. And it's for sure you do not know. Caligula's generals would have said and done the same thing.
 
MrWonka said:
So you think he's only reckless and erratic with Twitter, his speeches, the laws he passes, the women he sleeps with, the lawyers he hires, the friends he makes, but military force? Oh yeah, he'll be fine with that.
Click to expand...
Because there's a comparable level of consequence. lulz
 
Tangmo said:
On Saturday, Nov.17, 2017, the top officer at U.S. Strategic Command said an order from President Donald Trump or any of his successors to launch nuclear weapons can be refused if that order is determined to be illegal.

AF Gen. John Hyten the commander of the nuclear arsenal told Trump publicly what Trump could do with any "fire and fury" nuclear launch order. Gen. Hyten said his piece to the world 14 days after SecDef James Mattis appointed Hyten to his command.

Trump got shot down unprecedentedly for a CinC/Potus, which Trump is in name only....



The top U.S. nuclear commander said he would decline President Trump if he ordered a nuclear launch and it was deemed illegal




There are international standards and laws in the use of nuclear weapons to determine the illegal use order versus the legal use order. And when it's a raging lunatic who gives the order in the guise of the commander in chief, then the chiefs and commanders of the armed services who know the laws are compelled to act to stop him.




Here's the text of Gen. Hyten's statement....

AP) HALIFAX, Nova Scotia — The top officer at U.S. Strategic Command said Saturday an order from President Donald Trump or any of his successors to launch nuclear weapons can be refused if that order is determined to be illegal.

Air Force Gen.John Hyten, commander of Strategic Command, told a panel at the Halifax International Security Forum on Saturday that he and Trump have had conversations about such a scenario and that he would tell Trump he couldn’t carry out an illegal strike. “If it’s illegal, guess what’s going to happen. I’m going to say, ‘Mr President, that’s illegal.’ And guess what he’s going to do? He’s going to say, ‘What would be legal?’” Hyten said.

“And we’ll come up with options with a mix of capabilities to respond to whatever the situation is, and that’s the way it works. ”In the event that Trump decided to launch a nuclear attack, Hyten would provide him with strike options that are legal. The command would control nuclear forces in a war.

The comments come as the threat of nuclear attack from North Korea remains a serious concern and Trump’s critics question his temperament. Trump’s taunting tweets aimed at Pyongyang have sparked concerns primarily among congressional Democrats that he may be inciting a war with North Korea.

During testimony before the Foreign Relations Committee earlier this month, retired Gen. Robert Kehler who served as the head of Strategic Command from January 2011 to November 2013, also said the U.S.armed forces are obligated to follow legal orders, not illegal ones. Hyten said he’s talked it over with Trump. "I think some people think we’re stupid. We’re not stupid people. We think about these things a lot. When you have this responsibility how do you not think about it?” he said. He said he would not obey an illegal order. “You could go to jail for the rest of your life,” he said.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5i...upXVSsXG58pbGQ



Sure as shootin that last fact is what scared off Trump for good. Imagine the Trump Nuclear War Crimes Tribunal right in our own nation's capital besides. (We wouldn't let the Europeans mollycoddle him eh.) Gen. Hyten is btw former commander of Air Force Space Command. So Trump isn't the first space cadet he's run across. And over and through. Fortunately for everyone everywhere. If Trump today submitted a security clearance package to be a lieutenant in an Air Force silo launch station he'd be refused immediately and sent packing.
Click to expand...


LOL, this channel does not exist.
 
MrWonka said:
How likely is Trump to try and launch an illegal nuclear attack against the Muslim world(or any part of the world)?

Feel free to check all that apply.

Very Good.
Good, but his generals will convince him not to.
Decent, but his generals probably won't follow that order.
Decent, all it would take is a significant terrorist attack.
Decent, if he thinks it will help him win re-election watch out.
Doubtful, he's afraid his base will turn on him.
Doubtful, he's afraid Republican leadership will turn on him.
Highly Unlikely, but only if there's an incredibly good reason for it.
No way, Trump's moral compass would never allow him to do that.
No way, his generals will definitely not follow that order.
Click to expand...

Nuclear Launches require two factor validation. Trump can't just wake up at 0300, demand "the football" and press a button. In fact, that football is just a set of attack plans and options. It's not a "button".

That means not only would Trump have to select a target(s) he'd have to find another authorized person to agree to the pre-emptive attack. Even then, NORAD could deny the launch theoretically.

Welcome to reality. It's a sane place, try joining us.
 
NoC_T said:
Because there's a comparable level of consequence.
Click to expand...

Really? Because all those other things are supposed to have consequences too, but so long as his base is willing to let him get away with it he doesn't seem to care.
 
Renae said:
That means not only would Trump have to select a target(s) he'd have to find another authorized person to agree to the pre-emptive attack. Even then, NORAD could deny the launch theoretically.

Welcome to reality.
Click to expand...

So, basically what you're telling me is that you know damn well Trump is stupid enough and disgusting enough to try and launch an illegal nuclear strike, but you're assuming the generals that are serving underneath him will refuse to follow the orders of their commander and chief. That's the best you got?

Okay, now what exactly is preventing him from firing those generals and hiring new ones that won't reject the orders? There's already talk of him throwing out Mattis after the Midterms. All the leaks and this anonymous letter to the editor have him paranoid and there's a high likelihood that after the midterms are over he cleans house of anybody and everyone he doesn't think is completely 100% loyal to him.

What then?
 
Renae said:
Nuclear Launches require two factor validation. Trump can't just wake up at 0300, demand "the football" and press a button. In fact, that football is just a set of attack plans and options. It's not a "button".

That means not only would Trump have to select a target(s) he'd have to find another authorized person to agree to the pre-emptive attack. Even then, NORAD could deny the launch theoretically.

Welcome to reality. It's a sane place, try joining us.
Click to expand...

God knows there is plenty of room there.
 
MrWonka said:
So, basically what you're telling me is that you know damn well Trump is stupid enough and disgusting enough to try and launch an illegal nuclear strike, but you're assuming the generals that are serving underneath him will refuse to follow the orders of their commander and chief. That's the best you got?

Okay, now what exactly is preventing him from firing those generals and hiring new ones that won't reject the orders? There's already talk of him throwing out Mattis after the Midterms. All the leaks and this anonymous letter to the editor have him paranoid and there's a high likelihood that after the midterms are over he cleans house of anybody and everyone he doesn't think is completely 100% loyal to him.

What then?
Click to expand...

What you're doing is creating a strawman. I never implied Trump would do such a thing. I merely took the premise you provided that he might, and extrapolated "IF he were to do that" this is why it wouldn't happen.

You are the only one pushing this silly narrative he would do such a thing. Theoretically, yes the President could start WWIII with a pre-emptive nuclear strike, however the system is set up to deter such an action. Ergo while "technically possible" it is as unlikely as you admitting you just lied about what I said for your own narrative needs just to make your insane point.
 
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