Tariffs

Unless you've been living under a rock, you know that Trump is a proponent of tariffs. According to him, other countries such as Mexico and China are stealing jobs from American workers, particularly in manufacturing. To bring jobs back, Trump wants to place tariffs on products from other countries.

2018 has been a good year for manufacturing jobs. In fact, it's growing at the fastest rate in 23 years
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-manufacturing-jobs-growth-has-been-so-strong-2018-08-03

However, soybean farmers in the US are beginning to suffer as other countries impose tariffs on the US.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/08/...ybean-farmer-china-tariffs-trump-exports.html
https://augustafreepress.com/virginia-soybean-farmers-hurt-by-chinese-trade-tariffs/

Trump also says that other countries have tariffs on the US and that slants trade in their favor. And to his credit, China did have tariffs on the US, even before the trade war that is going on right now, and so did the EU.

There are pros/cons and unintended consequences to anything the government does. There are situations that tariffs can be beneficial or even needed, the main issue with tariffs (and any other tax on businesses) is that ultimately it is the end consumer that pays the tax which means that any that are implemented need to be carefully placed. Tariffs on base resources like steel however is never a good idea in my opinion. I think the easiest way to describe tariffs is to consider it a privatised subsidy, rather than tax people and then provide that subsidy directly to an industry they hike taxes on their foreign competition in order to make the domestic industry more competitive, either way the end result is that the consumer is paying for that subsidy either through taxation or higher prices.

Nope, tariffs have never worked

"Manufacturing jobs growing at fastest rate in 23 years" is a titularly odd/incongruous contextual tone to set for an article that asserts and refers to the following:

From the article:

All good things must come to an end in the post-crisis economy, it seems. “In general, global growth has cooled a bit in the last six months."

• Motor vehicle sales have clearly flattened after years of blowout sales, he pointed out. And yet in the near term, O’Sullivan said, trade concerns are the biggest downside risk. Muro put it this way: “The irony here is that just when things have gotten on a roll, a set of self-inflicted wounds—such as trade uncertainties and regulatory uncertainties on emissions—may introduce new headwinds.”
• Those headwinds may be starting to show up, below the headlines but slowly and surely, in some economic data. The ISM manufacturing index for July stumbled, although it remained at a high level, with many survey respondents pointing to tariff uncertainties.

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From an article linked-to in the thread rubric's article:

Nap said:

There are pros/cons and unintended consequences to anything the government does. There are situations that tariffs can be beneficial or even needed, the main issue with tariffs (and any other tax on businesses) is that ultimately it is the end consumer that pays the tax which means that any that are implemented need to be carefully placed. Tariffs on base resources like steel however is never a good idea in my opinion. I think the easiest way to describe tariffs is to consider it a privatised subsidy, rather than tax people and then provide that subsidy directly to an industry they hike taxes on their foreign competition in order to make the domestic industry more competitive, either way the end result is that the consumer is paying for that subsidy either through taxation or higher prices.

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That (bolded above) can make a big difference in who is stuck with the tab.

I support tariffs. Companies outsource because of the lack of tariffs or lower tariffs made its profitable to exploit dirt cheap labor force in other countries. Those companies that outsourced didn't do it because they couldn't find workers. They didn't outsource because a country has some sort of rare mineral that they ain't letting leave their country it's raw form. They outsourced because they can pay people in other countries pennies on the dollar for what they would pay an American to do those jobs and their is a lower standard of worker and environmental safety standards that they can exploit. Also by outsourcing those companies helped countries like China expand it's military.Sure technology wise we got the Chinese beat. However they got way more people than we got that they can use to fill their military. It wasn't hell in a handbasket before companies started outsourcing to China, India, Mexico and other countries and won't be hell in a handbasket once companies stop outsourcing those those countries.

enderpotato00 said:

Nope, tariffs have never worked

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Tariffs in the first half of the 1800s instigated the Civil War. Smoot-Hawley tariffs instigated the first depression. President Carter’s tariffs decimated family farmers in the 1980s. And now this INSANITY from #45.

Ask the farm implement dealers how their sales have plummeted. This is not a trickle-down in farm country and rural towns. It’s a hurricane. Meanwhile, manufacturers and industries are going out of business across this Nation due to these insane and most incoherent tariffs.

But yeah, republicans, tell us how great tariffs are again.

Masterhawk said:

Unless you've been living under a rock, you know that Trump is a proponent of tariffs. According to him, other countries such as Mexico and China are stealing jobs from American workers, particularly in manufacturing. To bring jobs back, Trump wants to place tariffs on products from other countries.

2018 has been a good year for manufacturing jobs. In fact, it's growing at the fastest rate in 23 years
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-manufacturing-jobs-growth-has-been-so-strong-2018-08-03

However, soybean farmers in the US are beginning to suffer as other countries impose tariffs on the US.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/08/...ybean-farmer-china-tariffs-trump-exports.html
https://augustafreepress.com/virginia-soybean-farmers-hurt-by-chinese-trade-tariffs/

Trump also says that other countries have tariffs on the US and that slants trade in their favor. And to his credit, China did have tariffs on the US, even before the trade war that is going on right now, and so did the EU.

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I was tempted to answer #2 in your poll, but decided not to because I don't think I have enough information to take that position, plus I think there are other tactics that can be used...in conjunction with tariffs. Just saying we should slap tariffs on everyone who won't remove theirs is, to me, taking a limiting approach.

Fortunately, Trump appears to agree with me. Tariffs are not the only thing he has done to get other countries to remove their tariffs, their trade-limiting internal rules and their subsidies.

The only time tariffs worked in America was from 1789 - 1860, as it was the one of the ways for the government to pay its bills and build its own economy. The second was selling land. Today, tariffs only causes wars to happen. Tariffs, is the seed bed for war, for hatefulness of foreign people and foreign ideas.

Atheist 2020 said:

The only time tariffs worked in America was from 1789 - 1860, as it was the one of the ways for the government to pay its bills and build its own economy. The second was selling land. Today, tariffs only causes wars to happen. Tariffs, is the seed bed for war, for hatefulness of foreign people and foreign ideas.

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Those tariffs you speak of working in America from 1789 to 1860 were the worst tariffs in our History. They hurt small southern farmers the most, not the plantations. Sound familiar? Tariffs were the trigger of the Civil War.

Those small southern farmers were the ones who went to fight the corrupt, gilded North. They had nothing left to lose but their lives since the northern tariffs on southern states smothered the southern economy.

And those tariffs were all for our first mega-rich robber barons of the GOP North, the old European bourgeoisie corrupt capitalism crew. Same thing today with windfall tax cuts for the ultra rich the only thing GOPs will ‘accomplish’ this term.

Linc said:

Those tariffs you speak of working in America from 1789 to 1860 were the worst tariffs in our History. They hurt small southern farmers the most, not the plantations. Sound familiar? Tariffs were the trigger of the Civil War.

Those small southern farmers were the ones who went to fight the corrupt, gilded North. They had nothing left to lose but their lives since the northern tariffs on southern states smothered the southern economy.

And those tariffs were all for our first mega-rich robber barons of the GOP North, the old European bourgeoisie corrupt capitalism crew. Same thing today with windfall tax cuts for the ultra rich the only thing GOPs will ‘accomplish’ this term.

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They are also stuffing the courts with regressive nuts that want to go back to the early 1800's.

Tariffs are taxes. If you start with that premise, you're on the right track. Do you support tax increases?

Linc said:

Those tariffs you speak of working in America from 1789 to 1860 were the worst tariffs in our History. They hurt small southern farmers the most, not the plantations. Sound familiar? Tariffs were the trigger of the Civil War.

Those small southern farmers were the ones who went to fight the corrupt, gilded North. They had nothing left to lose but their lives since the northern tariffs on southern states smothered the southern economy.

And those tariffs were all for our first mega-rich robber barons of the GOP North, the old European bourgeoisie corrupt capitalism crew. Same thing today with windfall tax cuts for the ultra rich the only thing GOPs will ‘accomplish’ this term.

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During 1860, the state with the most wealth was Mississippi. I am very much a Civil War book nerd, and nobody has talked about tariffs as the reason to start a new government called the Confederate States of America. The south had cotton but did not have a robust workforce with high skilled labor. if you are not going to educated your slaves, you are not going to have high skilled labor to win the war.

If I was a southerner the chance to win full independence was a rational argument. Because you need a army of the north being two men to one to win the war. The north ended up with a 2.5 to 1 military. But, the north had 45% of its army being first generation Americans and immigrants from Europe. If there was no Revolution of 1848, with ending Serfdom in central Europe -- the war would be different. If you came to America after the Revolution of 1848, or lived in Europe -- the difference between a Serf and a Slave was not really a difference -- because you are tied to the land. Second, allowing immigrants from Ireland, Canada, Scotland and England prevented the United Kingdom entering into the war for the south. In theory, the man that stopped the Confederate States of America from winning the war was Karl Marx.

If you want to see how the Republican party was so socialist during the Civil War: a immigrant comes from Europe were his parents were Serfs; takes $300 from a American man not wanting to fight in the war; live after the war, and settled a farm in the Rocky Mountain States with 180 acres of land.

Taxation is theft. So, no...no more theft should be implemented.

well i have always been against our corporations move to lands.of cheap labor and no regulation. We need those quality jobs to make our real economy hum. Now the investor class has loved this move. they have profited handsomely. and they they tell the american consumer how great it is that they have replaced all these quality jobs with low paying service sector jobs. but they get to buy cheap stuff at walmart

Congress could pass laws to discourage it but they have done just the.opposite.

only thing trump could do without congress is tariffs. only thing he has done i agree with

If imposing tariffs is a way to get other countries to the table to discuss eliminating tariffs then I'm all for it. But we have signed on to trade deals in general that work against us. And it puts American manufacturers at a huge disadvantage when offshore manufacturers can ignore worker safety and rights, no benefits like sick time or vacation, no retirement, pollute at will, have very low taxes, easy permitting, infringe patents, steal software, have no product liability, and then sell their cheaply made products here with no tariff. The whole idea of "globalism" needs a serious reset. Maybe the next round of treaties will get it right.

Masterhawk said:

Unless you've been living under a rock, you know that Trump is a proponent of tariffs. According to him, other countries such as Mexico and China are stealing jobs from American workers, particularly in manufacturing. To bring jobs back, Trump wants to place tariffs on products from other countries.

2018 has been a good year for manufacturing jobs. In fact, it's growing at the fastest rate in 23 years
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-manufacturing-jobs-growth-has-been-so-strong-2018-08-03

However, soybean farmers in the US are beginning to suffer as other countries impose tariffs on the US.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/08/...ybean-farmer-china-tariffs-trump-exports.html
https://augustafreepress.com/virginia-soybean-farmers-hurt-by-chinese-trade-tariffs/

Trump also says that other countries have tariffs on the US and that slants trade in their favor. And to his credit, China did have tariffs on the US, even before the trade war that is going on right now, and so did the EU.

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Never really understood the left's aversion to tariffs. They are constantly ragging on US companies who move jobs overseas due to cheaper labor and it would seem tariffs would put a huge dent in that practice.

Moderate Right said:

Never really understood the left's aversion to tariffs. They are constantly ragging on US companies who move jobs overseas due to cheaper labor and it would seem tariffs would put a huge dent in that practice.

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Bernie Sanders is in favor of tariffs. I guess the left now hates them because of Trump.

Masterhawk said:

Bernie Sanders is in favor of tariffs. I guess the left now hates them because of Trump.

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Broad Brush on the Left. Since when does ONE Politician own the Right? Or the Left? Got it. Sen. Sanders doesn’t.

Your attempts to divide the ‘Left’ are Noted and Dismissed as GOP False Equivalence.

Just FYI, this 4th round of Insane Tariffs in our Nation’s History are Insane. Ask Any Farmer or Rancher, those who USED to support GOPs. Ask Rural towns and their Farm Implement Businesses Going Out of Business. ETC

You Know As Much About Tariffs as Archipelago Democrats Know about Talking Respectfully about and To Farmers, Truckers, Rural Town Folks, anyone different from them.

Waddy said:

If imposing tariffs is a way to get other countries to the table to discuss eliminating tariffs then I'm all for it. But we have signed on to trade deals in general that work against us. And it puts American manufacturers at a huge disadvantage when offshore manufacturers can ignore worker safety and rights, no benefits like sick time or vacation, no retirement, pollute at will, have very low taxes, easy permitting, infringe patents, steal software, have no product liability, and then sell their cheaply made products here with no tariff. The whole idea of "globalism" needs a serious reset. Maybe the next round of treaties will get it right.

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I’ll remember your opening line when I see my Farmers-in-Law this coming Week, Those Who USED to support the GOP. I’ll be at the Iowa State Fair To report in to DP also.

My People need to see what GOPs think of them, selling them out for a Criminally Insane Traitor. They go back Four Generations to the Great World War, while the Father of Cadet Bone Spurs also Ran from Service.

Linc said:

I’ll remember your opening line when I see my Farmers-in-Law this coming Week, Those Who USED to support the GOP. I’ll be at the Iowa State Fair To report in to DP also.

My People need to see what GOPs think of them, selling them out for a Criminally Insane Traitor. They go back Four Generations to the Great World War, while the Father of Cadet Bone Spurs also Ran from Service.

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You're talking to a Kansas farmer. Until about three years ago I was a partner in a farm in western Kansas. Now only my daughter and her husband own the farm. I just gave them my part. You act like there's some kind of wholesale revolution against the GOP. I ain't seen it.

Masterhawk said:

Unless you've been living under a rock, you know that Trump is a proponent of tariffs. According to him, other countries such as Mexico and China are stealing jobs from American workers, particularly in manufacturing. To bring jobs back, Trump wants to place tariffs on products from other countries.

2018 has been a good year for manufacturing jobs. In fact, it's growing at the fastest rate in 23 years
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-manufacturing-jobs-growth-has-been-so-strong-2018-08-03

However, soybean farmers in the US are beginning to suffer as other countries impose tariffs on the US.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/08/...ybean-farmer-china-tariffs-trump-exports.html
https://augustafreepress.com/virginia-soybean-farmers-hurt-by-chinese-trade-tariffs/

Trump also says that other countries have tariffs on the US and that slants trade in their favor. And to his credit, China did have tariffs on the US, even before the trade war that is going on right now, and so did the EU.

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This is how the press paints Trump's tariffs:

2005: The EU taxes American auto imports 20%

2018: Trump taxes EU cars 25%

Conclusion: Trump started a trade war.

Masterhawk said:

Unless you've been living under a rock, you know that Trump is a proponent of tariffs. According to him, other countries such as Mexico and China are stealing jobs from American workers, particularly in manufacturing. To bring jobs back, Trump wants to place tariffs on products from other countries.

2018 has been a good year for manufacturing jobs. In fact, it's growing at the fastest rate in 23 years
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-manufacturing-jobs-growth-has-been-so-strong-2018-08-03

However, soybean farmers in the US are beginning to suffer as other countries impose tariffs on the US.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/08/...ybean-farmer-china-tariffs-trump-exports.html
https://augustafreepress.com/virginia-soybean-farmers-hurt-by-chinese-trade-tariffs/

Trump also says that other countries have tariffs on the US and that slants trade in their favor. And to his credit, China did have tariffs on the US, even before the trade war that is going on right now, and so did the EU.

Click to expand...

I don't think Trump is a proponent of tariffs in the main sense, he considers them a useful Tool to be used to level playing fields.
It is a story of decades to describe the various tariffs put on America by other nations, suffice it to say trump is correct there.

In the short term some folks may think themselves unfairly hurt with tariffs, but it is mostly very temporary, like the soy farmers. A ship which had been sitting off the Chinese coast docked and unloaded it's soy, the shipping company paid the tariffs to get'r'done.

China is wanting to renegotiate everything suddenly, so is/has Mexico, the EU has backed off many of their strangely one-sided trade laws and manufacturers are beginning to see improvements here because of it, the balancing is happening.

Until we balance the field tariffs are useful; they should exist only to temporarily address drastic advantages/disadvantages, for various reasons.

For instance, after WWII we allowed Europe advantages to rebuild,.....why keep them in place?

Masterhawk said:

Unless you've been living under a rock, you know that Trump is a proponent of tariffs. According to him, other countries such as Mexico and China are stealing jobs from American workers, particularly in manufacturing. To bring jobs back, Trump wants to place tariffs on products from other countries.

2018 has been a good year for manufacturing jobs. In fact, it's growing at the fastest rate in 23 years
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-manufacturing-jobs-growth-has-been-so-strong-2018-08-03

However, soybean farmers in the US are beginning to suffer as other countries impose tariffs on the US.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/08/...ybean-farmer-china-tariffs-trump-exports.html
https://augustafreepress.com/virginia-soybean-farmers-hurt-by-chinese-trade-tariffs/

Trump also says that other countries have tariffs on the US and that slants trade in their favor. And to his credit, China did have tariffs on the US, even before the trade war that is going on right now, and so did the EU.

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Higher tariffs. Eliminate income taxes for working Americans.

enderpotato00 said:

Nope, tariffs have never worked

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Except when the US became the leading industrial superpower.