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Underground economy

Your underground percentage?

  • 0-5%

    Votes: 4 50.0%

  • 6-10%

    Votes: 1 12.5%

  • 11-15%

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 16-20%

    Votes: 1 12.5%

  • over 20%

    Votes: 2 25.0%
  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .
W

Waddy

DP Veteran
Joined
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I looked around my shop recently and realized almost ALL of my equipment was bought second hand, for cash. And lots of the purchases I make are cash deals, like at the junkyard, fruit and veggie stand, clothing, etc. Even my barber takes cash, no receipt. All the lawn care guys will work for cash, no receipt. I buy used off ebay, and lots of other auction sites. A LOT of what I buy is that way.

I think the internet has enabled a huge growth in the underground economy. Much easier to connect people who want to sell with people with cash to buy.

I understand GDP is figured ONLY on new goods and services purchased. So used cars, used equipment, used appliances don't count, I guess. Anyone working for cash doesn't count. So just how big is the "underground" economy? I tried to get a handle on it online but there isn't much out there and the estimates vary widely. How about here on this forum? What percentage of your purchases are "underground", used or cash? Let's leave out house payments and utilities, cause I don't think they count on GDP. But considering everything else, what's your percentage?
 
Waddy said:
I looked around my shop recently and realized almost ALL of my equipment was bought second hand, for cash. And lots of the purchases I make are cash deals, like at the junkyard, fruit and veggie stand, clothing, etc. Even my barber takes cash, no receipt. All the lawn care guys will work for cash, no receipt. I buy used off ebay, and lots of other auction sites. A LOT of what I buy is that way.

I think the internet has enabled a huge growth in the underground economy. Much easier to connect people who want to sell with people with cash to buy.

I understand GDP is figured ONLY on new goods and services purchased. So used cars, used equipment, used appliances don't count, I guess. Anyone working for cash doesn't count. So just how big is the "underground" economy? I tried to get a handle on it online but there isn't much out there and the estimates vary widely. How about here on this forum? What percentage of your purchases are "underground", used or cash? Let's leave out house payments and utilities, cause I don't think they count on GDP. But considering everything else, what's your percentage?
Click to expand...

I misunderstood your poll question. I took underground to mean illegal, not unrecorded. Garage sales and E-bay are perfectly legal as far as I know. Whether they're taxed is another matter.
 
Waddy said:
I looked around my shop recently and realized almost ALL of my equipment was bought second hand, for cash. And lots of the purchases I make are cash deals, like at the junkyard, fruit and veggie stand, clothing, etc. Even my barber takes cash, no receipt. All the lawn care guys will work for cash, no receipt. I buy used off ebay, and lots of other auction sites. A LOT of what I buy is that way.

I think the internet has enabled a huge growth in the underground economy. Much easier to connect people who want to sell with people with cash to buy.

I understand GDP is figured ONLY on new goods and services purchased. So used cars, used equipment, used appliances don't count, I guess. Anyone working for cash doesn't count. So just how big is the "underground" economy? I tried to get a handle on it online but there isn't much out there and the estimates vary widely. How about here on this forum? What percentage of your purchases are "underground", used or cash? Let's leave out house payments and utilities, cause I don't think they count on GDP. But considering everything else, what's your percentage?
Click to expand...

As consumers go, my husband and I are long past our prime. We have everything we need and a reasonable amount of stuff that we just like to have. So most of our consumerism is strictly retail now including sales taxes and with receipts. Other than clothes, groceries, and other household essentials, most new stuff coming into the house is via gifts from the kids or other loved ones. Admittedly when we have had to hire a contractor now and then, they usually work for less if they are paid in cash. :)

I don't fault those who utilize the barter system or go on a cash basis for a lot of stuff. But I suspect you are in a fairly small minority? Hard to say.
 
Thirty-six years ago, a brand new AMPEX 1-inch Type C broadcast quality VTR cost about $80,000.00 ... in 1982 dollars, not today's dollars.
Eighty grand, and in order to be able to do proper post production, you really needed at least three of them, plus digital time base correctors, switchers, graphics, special effects, audio mixing, etc.

vpr80.jpg


I purchased all that stuff secondhand or broken, and fixed it, reconditioned it, etc.
I still have ONE remaining Type C VTR in the garage, getting ready to install it in the edit bay to digitize antiquated videotapes.
I picked it up for TEN BUCKS at a thrift shop in Long Beach, CA.

(Paint can shown for size reference)

AMPEXVPR61a.jpg

I purchased pretty much EVERYTHING for broadcast grade production and post production that way, it was the only way I could afford it.
I just had to be really good with a scope, VTVM, soldering iron and a greenie, and I had to have service manuals.
 
bearpoker said:
I misunderstood your poll question. I took underground to mean illegal, not unrecorded. Garage sales and E-bay are perfectly legal as far as I know. Whether they're taxed is another matter.
Click to expand...

It is the same thing. It is destroying our country. I had a legitimate business. I cannot even begin to keep track of all the jobs I lost to illegitimate businesses. They don't pull permits because they can't. The city loses revenue and the consumer usually gets a job not done up to current health, safety, and fire codes.

The reason for the codes is to keep you safe and to insure that the job is properly done. The reason people are licensed, bonded, insured, and have to be registered in usually each town or city is to insure that they are qualified to do a proper job.

Everyone makes mistakes. To have a professional look at your job and say everything is OK or point out a mistake or oversight is important. Most of my inspections that failed were due to previous work done wrong by other contractors that I had not noticed.


I have people that say oh he is just a yard man what harm can come from this. I have seen yardmen tie an area drain into the sanitary sewer. Not just once but too many times to count. Now we have sewer gas coming out of the area drains. It so happened there was a drain in the garage tied into the area drain. Now this persons garage is filling with sewer gas. If he is working in this garage with the door closed this is the same as leaving a car running with the door closed. You can be overcome by the fumes and die.
 
Pssssttt!!! I'm gonna need help getting it in there! Sucker weighs about 275 pounds conservative estimate. Damn near did me in getting it into the car, out of the car, and into the garage. I was done for the day HAHAHAHAHA.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
It is the same thing. It is destroying our country. I had a legitimate business. I cannot even begin to keep track of all the jobs I lost to illegitimate businesses. They don't pull permits because they can't. The city loses revenue and the consumer usually gets a job not done up to current health, safety, and fire codes.

The reason for the codes is to keep you safe and to insure that the job is properly done. The reason people are licensed, bonded, insured, and have to be registered in usually each town or city is to insure that they are qualified to do a proper job.

Everyone makes mistakes. To have a professional look at your job and say everything is OK or point out a mistake or oversight is important. Most of my inspections that failed were due to previous work done wrong by other contractors that I had not noticed.


I have people that say oh he is just a yard man what harm can come from this. I have seen yardmen tie an area drain into the sanitary sewer. Not just once but too many times to count. Now we have sewer gas coming out of the area drains. It so happened there was a drain in the garage tied into the area drain. Now this persons garage is filling with sewer gas. If he is working in this garage with the door closed this is the same as leaving a car running with the door closed. You can be overcome by the fumes and die.
Click to expand...

I agree with the need to have licensed contractors for any repair or construction projects and have always used them. The second hand market is a different story. People have garage sales or privately sell cars and other property all the time. In the case of cars, the taxes are paid when the car is registered.
 
Waddy said:
I looked around my shop recently and realized almost ALL of my equipment was bought second hand, for cash. And lots of the purchases I make are cash deals, like at the junkyard, fruit and veggie stand, clothing, etc. Even my barber takes cash, no receipt. All the lawn care guys will work for cash, no receipt. I buy used off ebay, and lots of other auction sites. A LOT of what I buy is that way.

I think the internet has enabled a huge growth in the underground economy. Much easier to connect people who want to sell with people with cash to buy.

I understand GDP is figured ONLY on new goods and services purchased. So used cars, used equipment, used appliances don't count, I guess. Anyone working for cash doesn't count. So just how big is the "underground" economy? I tried to get a handle on it online but there isn't much out there and the estimates vary widely. How about here on this forum? What percentage of your purchases are "underground", used or cash? Let's leave out house payments and utilities, cause I don't think they count on GDP. But considering everything else, what's your percentage?
Click to expand...

Another organic thread with great potential. Street Metal Recyclers legally don’t pay taxes on Aluminum cans. I’m currently getting 50 cents a pound. I like getting my hands dirty. It’s another farm mentality.

This weekend, we’ve (farmers in law) will be blow-torching heavy metal farm implements of no practical use and no antique value and worth dollars. I’ve learned from my own first cousin dairy farmer how to run this off our taxes.

Partially to totally, we really are living off the land, off the GRID.
 
bearpoker said:
I agree with the need to have licensed contractors for any repair or construction projects and have always used them. The second hand market is a different story. People have garage sales or privately sell cars and other property all the time. In the case of cars, the taxes are paid when the car is registered.
Click to expand...

I know people who make a good living off of the flee markets. Why do I pay taxes when too many people not only don't pay taxes but are the same ones collecting welfare. You have no idea how many times I went to hire someone and they wanted to be paid cash no taxes. I would say I am hiring a helper for $15.00 an hour. First thing out of their mouth is how about $10.00 or $12.00 cash no taxes. Naturally I ask why but I usually already know. #1 reason I am on welfare and food stamps. #2 reason mostly college kids I am getting financial assistance to go to college. #3 answer they are here illegally or in trouble with the law.

Oh the one thing they all have in common they are all liberals. :doh
 
I can't tell..
 
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