• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is this where Trumps support crashes or at least shrinks finally?

Is this where Trumps support crashes or at least shrinks finally?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 7.7%

  • No

    Votes: 24 61.5%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 12 30.8%
  • Total voters
    39
Waddy said:
Most of those "core ideals" were ideals to help the working/middle class; like education assistance, mortgage help, unions, progressive tax rates, etc., but then they started to forget most of what they stood for = the working man's party, and began to focus on minorities and class politics. I used to be a Democrat, voted for Carter. As some others say; I didn't leave the Dems, they left me.
Click to expand...
Yeah, agreed.

The Dems left me too, though Trump & the GOP just recently drove me back.

Those earlier Dem values, are what grew their tent into the majority party it became. Minorities and the economically underprivileged or economically moderate were drawn to the party naturally, through shared values. The values were the draw, not necessarily the demographics. The diverse demographics occurred due to the party having widely accepted universal values.

But that seemed to change, over the years. The values, at least in perception, receded from the foreground and were replaced with an embracement of identity and culture. Identity and culture, rather than values, became the primary identifier. And I believe that is where it started unraveling.

But the party is not lost. If anything, Trump is assisting in keeping it alive, as can be seen by my recent re-integration. But they must more rigorously define their mission, their ethos, and communicate it to the general public. Trump and the GOP are tripping all over themselves. It's high-time to take advantage of it.
 
Amelia said:
Trump's base is in too far. They can't turn on him now. They could never save face.

Gingrich provides an example. He called Trump's Helsinki debacle the most serious mistake of Trump's presidency.

But now he's back to singing Trump's praises and says he trusts Helsinki was a mere aberration.



The pivot which Gingrich pulls off with pedantic rationalization, the majority of Trump's base will do on a more gut level. They cannot bear to face how low they sunk when they hitched their wagon to Trump's star so they'll stay on the ride.
Click to expand...


It's a bit like the German troops must have felt near the end of WWII; they knew they were loosing the war, they knew that Hitler had put Germany in a place of no return, and they knew that they could well be casualties.
So, why not just trod along and receive whatever reward for their part for their support of the criminal activity of their leader?

Yes, America is also marching down a very dark & lawless path, and our path is also very real, and will be subject to consequences.

Trump & his enablers will (eventually) be shown to be on the wrong side of history, just as the Germans of 1930s & 1940s Germany were shown to be on the wrong side of history in their support of their tyrant.

I may have to pay for the sins of a nation but I know I am on the right side of history.

What side are you on?
 
I doubt it. McConnell and Ryan have set precedent. Republicans won't care until they get voted out in November.
 
Aristaeus said:
What about the people who didn't vote for him? Isn't the President meant to represent everyone and work for everyone?
Click to expand...

elections have consequences
 
Chomsky said:
Yeah, agreed.

The Dems left me too, though Trump & the GOP just recently drove me back.

Those earlier Dem values, are what grew their tent into the majority party it became. Minorities and the economically underprivileged or economically moderate were drawn to the party naturally, through shared values. The values were the draw, not necessarily the demographics. The diverse demographics occurred due to the party having widely accepted universal values.

But that seemed to change, over the years. The values, at least in perception, receded from the foreground and were replaced with an embracement of identity and culture. Identity and culture, rather than values, became the primary identifier. And I believe that is where it started unraveling.

But the party is not lost. If anything, Trump is assisting in keeping it alive, as can be seen by my recent re-integration. But they must more rigorously define their mission, their ethos, and communicate it to the general public. Trump and the GOP are tripping all over themselves. It's high-time to take advantage of it.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of what you said. However, I do not believe either party is ever out of it permanently. The party in power eventually screws up enough that they get booted out. As an example of the Dems abandoning their base is their support of trade agreements that hurt American workers, allow foreign workers to be exploited, no requirement regarding labor rights, equitable tariffs, copyright, the environment, comparable tax rates, or even force them to accept product liability. (ie., Chinese wallboard, tainted milk, etc.). I expect a pro business Republican party would be reluctant to do these things, but Democrats? The party of the working man?
 
Waddy said:
I agree with most of what you said. However, I do not believe either party is ever out of it permanently. The party in power eventually screws up enough that they get booted out. As an example of the Dems abandoning their base is their support of trade agreements that hurt American workers, allow foreign workers to be exploited, no requirement regarding labor rights, equitable tariffs, copyright, the environment, comparable tax rates, or even force them to accept product liability. (ie., Chinese wallboard, tainted milk, etc.). I expect a pro business Republican party would be reluctant to do these things, but Democrats? The party of the working man?
Click to expand...
I agree. And it cost them ...
 
Amelia said:
Trump's base is in too far. They can't turn on him now. They could never save face.

Gingrich provides an example. He called Trump's Helsinki debacle the most serious mistake of Trump's presidency.

But now he's back to singing Trump's praises and says he trusts Helsinki was a mere aberration.



The pivot which Gingrich pulls off with pedantic rationalization, the majority of Trump's base will do on a more gut level. They cannot bear to face how low they sunk when they hitched their wagon to Trump's star so they'll stay on the ride.
Click to expand...

Yep Mark Twain was right: "It's easier to con a man than it is to convince him he's been conned.
 
queenmandy85 said:
President Trump owes part of his electoral victory to the mainstream media. During the primaries and then the election, they framed his campaign success as inevitable. "Who can stop Trump?" Meaning, nobody can. I doubt it was intended, but it worked. President Trump is a marketing dream. He is first and formost, an entertainer and he is very good at it. He won't let us take our eyes off him. In fiction, a great author creates tension by making the reader wonder if this time, it is all going to crash...yet it doesn't. President Trump holds our attention the same way and, by doing that, has re-invigorated the mainstream media. President Trump and the media need each other.

I am not saying he is a genius. Perhaps he is just intuitive. Is there a difference?



Entertainers as a profession, are gaining an increasing amount of influence in American politics (President Reagan) as are journalists. The legal profession is no longer a pre-requisite for a career in
politics.
Click to expand...

What planet do you live on? If anything the media had Clinton the winner and they were in shock when Trump won.
 
Last edited:
EnigmaO01 said:
What planet do you live on? If anything the media had Clinton the winner and they were in shock when Trump won.
Click to expand...

I doubt the media intended a Trump victory, but the way they framed his campaign created momentum, a sense of inevitability. Even President Trump was in shock when he won.
 
queenmandy85 said:
I doubt the media intended a Trump victory, but the way they framed his campaign created momentum, a sense of inevitability. Even President Trump was in shock when he won.
Click to expand...

No they did not. They had Clinton as the inevitable winner and in a normal election without Comey's faux pas at the last minute and Russian interference she probably would have won.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom