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Did Russia's Election Meddling Change 2016 Election Results?

Did Russia's Election Meddling Change the 2016 Election Results?

  • Total voters
    73
Moderate Right said:
curious
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If a foreign entity meddled in our election, that that is a literal attack on our government and should be treated as such. That's the question we need to be asking ourselves right now.
 
cuban smokes said:
I agree but I believe we can also agree:
* Having Russian state actors interfere in the 2016 POTUS election IS unacceptable on any level.
* Having a POTUS that continually denies & plays semantic games with his comments concerning said Russian interference is just as unacceptable
* Having a POTUS that coddles Putin, all while Trump plays 'any way the wind blows' concerning the Russian interference in the 2016 election is beyond surreal

This all begs the question: Why is Trump seemingly beholden to Putin, all while Trump to this day places great doubt on Russian interference in the 2016 election?

All I see from Trump are the actions of a (1) guilty party & (2) someone that is owned, like a bitch ..............
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Trump is beholden to Putin because Putin has videos of golden showers connected with Trump. Therefore, Putin can make Trump bend to his will. :roll:
 
trblmkr said:
While it is really impossible to know, but we can ask questions:
How many Bernie supporters just stayed home. (Remember all the never Hillary signs and protests).
How many Bernie supporters voted for Stein or ??
How many voters were swayed by the Facebook links? (I know several people who were repeating that crap)

The election came down to just thousands of votes in several states. So, if Hillary had run a better campaign, spent more time in those states, staff hadn't made anti-Bernie statements, she may have won. (If she had been Joe Biden, probable would have won).
One thing is clear. Trump didn't win with a majority, he has no mandate, and fortunately/unfortunately for the country, he only has the support of about 40% of the population. The red map looks impressive, but it's mostly dirt.
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I find it kind of Hilarious that Stein was just fine with having her name on the ballot and taking votes away from Hillary (I assume because she thought Hillary was going to win anyway) but then after Hillary lost all of a sudden she wanted recounts because she really wanted Hillary to win.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Did Russia's Election Meddling Change the 2016 Election Results?

Definitely. But it is impossible to state the degree of change quantitatively.

Not even our intelligence agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA) can quantify degree of change although all agree that Russia did meddle extensively via the DNC hacking, Wikileaks dumps, and social media trolling/data theft.

What exacerbates this unique 21st century situation is a sitting president that ignores/excuses/discounts the Kremlin attacks.....

DhdAi2dUcAAhiVF.jpg
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Doesn't have anything to do with degree. Either you think Russia turned the election to Trump or you don't.
 
molten_dragon said:
It's impossible to know.
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bingo

what done is done :shrug: and every american should want it stopped, prevented and fought against in the future
 
Moderate Right said:
curious
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A better question: haw big a load will Mueller drop in his Depends if one of theses Russians shows up and demands to go on trial? We saw how panicked they were when they were/are actually having to prove a case against one of the Russian internet companies.
 
The simple fact that they did calls the result into question. When the person who benefited from that inteference maligns, discounts and obstructs the investigation of that interfernce , then suspicions should be even more heightened.
 
Vox said:
Clinton was just another extension of the Bush/Bush/Clinton/Obama cabal that was controlled by the Oligarchy.

That's why we elected Trump.

So far he has the Oligarch's knickers in a knot because they can't control him........and he's gaining in power and acceptance and has revamped the Supreme Court.

I'd say we made the only choice available......and it's been fun.

:2usflag:
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Of course they control him.

What evidence do you have that Putin and Russia doesn't?

Has he ever attacked them verbally?

He's attacked EVERYONE else
 
Vox said:
Clinton was just another extension of the Bush/Bush/Clinton/Obama cabal that was controlled by the Oligarchy.

That's why we elected Trump.

So far he has the Oligarch's knickers in a knot because they can't control him........and he's gaining in power and acceptance and has revamped the Supreme Court.

I'd say we made the only choice available......and it's been fun.

:2usflag:
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One problem: Trump represents the oligarchy. Quite well, thank you. Check out his policies. Hardly labor-friendly, enviornmentally friendly, etc. When he does something about all the Wall Street practices he promises to clean up instead of helping cut taxes for those at the top, when he rescinds his rules on worker safety, give us a call. He has a Sec of Ed who never worked at any capacity and doesn't seem to believe in public education, an EPA administrator who is a coal industry lobbyist, his admin. has legalized pesticides that cause birth defects, and he has a Treasury Secretary who may be more corrupt than Pruitt. And, of course, he persists in the oligarchy's historic practice of dividing us by race, ethnicity and religion.

Trump is there with Pogo in the swamp he promised to drain.
 
Moderate Right said:
curious
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The question came down to “do you want an extension of sub par economic performance coupled with social justice warriors telling you what the new norms are going to be, all geared up with the continuous graft and criminality that surrounds the Clintons, and everything connected to them? Hell no.

She would have been impeached with actual facts.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Did Russia's Election Meddling Change the 2016 Election Results?

Definitely. But it is impossible to state the degree of change quantitatively.

Not even our intelligence agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA) can quantify degree of change although all agree that Russia did meddle extensively via the DNC hacking, Wikileaks dumps, and social media trolling/data theft.

What exacerbates this unique 21st century situation is a sitting president that ignores/excuses/discounts the Kremlin attacks.....

DhdAi2dUcAAhiVF.jpg
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You mean Obama, who ordered the stand down?
 
Cardinal said:
Yes, of course. The publicly-released emails drove a narrative of corruption in the DNC and with Clinton in general. Of course, the mathematical impact is much more difficult to measure than, say, the Comey letter, but it drove a narrative that made problems with Clinton appear in the media to be on equal footing with that of Trump's, which is of course ridiculous.

If people choose to believe that that had no effect, then everybody needs to stop spending billions of dollars on advertising campaigns right now.

I voted for the first option because there were numerous reasons Clinton lost, but if you removed just one of them then I believe she would have won. And one of those reasons was definitely Russian interference.
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The Wikileaks release drove a narrative of corruption because there was corruption.
 
Hedgology said:
The proper question is: "Is there evidence of Russia's Election Meddling During the 2016 Election?"
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We know the answer to that one. The proper question is what he asked.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Yes Clinton was a horrible candidate and her campaign made a lot of mistakes, but the election was close enough that the Russian interference via Wikileaks and others probably pushed Trump over the top. I believe their interference fomented unfounded suspicions about 'Clinton and spread false narratives to create downright hatred among some voters to vote for anything but Clinton.
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What revealed in the Wikileaks emails were unfounded?
 
Phys251 said:
If a foreign entity meddled in our election, that that is a literal attack on our government and should be treated as such. That's the question we need to be asking ourselves right now.
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The US has attacked elections for decades, if not centuries, and so has Russia. The left want everyone to believe that we never have and that this is something new with Russia. Hell, even Obama knew it was happening and did nothing. But the left refuse to believe that Trump could beat Hillary and that Russian interference is the only possible explanation for her loss.
 
cuban smokes said:
I agree with a lot of post to this point; I will add/some already stated.

* HRC was a lazy bitch that ran a ****ty campaign as if she was entitled to the vote = her bad
* Comey was an idiot announcing re-opening the HRC email investigation 11 days before the election = big boost for Trump IMO
* the Russian connection is yet to be determined; we may never know if efforts by Russian entities had any real influence on the election outcome

Having said all of the above I do find it highly suspicious that POTUS Trump has had various opinions on the Russia connection; his opinion & comments on the matter have changed more than the direction & speed of the wind.
Anyone with half a brain and a bit of intuition realize Trump's opinions on any Russian connection with the election make Trump look as guilty as anyone.
It seems as if every time Trump opens his mouth he is stating more stupid, unbelievable ****, and he is most certainly not helping his narrative of the story whatsoever.

I VOTE = OTHER ................. we don't know yet ............
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OMFG.....I agree with you :shock:
 
Although impossible to know, I am on the skeptical side that it changed votes in the aggregate. Nevertheless, I am convinced that it may have altered individual votes.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
 
haymarket said:
If someone takes the position that YES - Russia interferred in our election on behalf of Donald Trump but also wants to allege that it did not play a role in changing votes or help Trump win - the only way that makes sense is if nothing that happens in a campaign gets votes or changes votes. Because if you accept that events in a campaign get votes , these were pretty major events in the closing weeks of the campaign.

Every candidate who has spent more than a minute campaigning for public office over the last 200 plus years has made a basic assumption that campaign activities do indeed get votes. No matter which party they ran on, no matter which office they ran for, no matter what positions they took, no matter how much they spent - the all assumed that they were doing this in the expectation that their efforts would garner votes.

Donald Trump also ran under this assumption. When Donald Trump publicly and loudly invoked the wikileaks material by name and used it to attack Clinton over the closing weeks of the campaign, he did so with the expectation that it would get him votes. That is why he used it the way he did.

To pretend that such a major political campaign event did not get Trump votes and play a role in his victory is simply bordering on willful delusion of the worst sort since it denies reality and over 200 years of American political history.
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How much of a role is what is questionable.
 
Manc Skipper said:
The simple fact that they did calls the result into question.
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This is exactly what Russia set out to do. We knew Russia was trying to interefere in the election before the election and yet in a debate Hillary called out Trump for not saying that he would accept the results of the election if he lost.
 
Lesh said:
Of course they control him.

What evidence do you have that Putin and Russia doesn't?

Has he ever attacked them verbally?

He's attacked EVERYONE else
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How do they control him? Do you have any evidence?
 
Nickyjo said:
One problem: Trump represents the oligarchy. Quite well, thank you. Check out his policies. Hardly labor-friendly, enviornmentally friendly, etc. When he does something about all the Wall Street practices he promises to clean up instead of helping cut taxes for those at the top, when he rescinds his rules on worker safety, give us a call. He has a Sec of Ed who never worked at any capacity and doesn't seem to believe in public education, an EPA administrator who is a coal industry lobbyist, his admin. has legalized pesticides that cause birth defects, and he has a Treasury Secretary who may be more corrupt than Pruitt. And, of course, he persists in the oligarchy's historic practice of dividing us by race, ethnicity and religion.

Trump is there with Pogo in the swamp he promised to drain.
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Lol. I think you forgot that Trump ran as a Republican, not a Democrat.
 
holbritter said:
What revealed in the Wikileaks emails were unfounded?
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Nothing. The closest they ever got was when Donna Brazille was accused of passing on a debate question to Hillary and then claiming that that hacked email could have been doctored, followed by Brazille eventually admiiting that she had indeed done that.
 
Fiddytree said:
Although impossible to know, I am on the skeptical side that it changed votes in the aggregate. Nevertheless, I am convinced that it may have altered individual votes.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
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Yep. It's just like the claim that illegals voting influenced the election.
 
Fiddytree said:
Although impossible to know, I am on the skeptical side that it changed votes in the aggregate. Nevertheless, I am convinced that it may have altered individual votes.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
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Not saying that isnt possible, but I am curious as to what it was that Russia did that would convince a Hillary supporter to either not vote or vote for Trump. You already had a race between the two most unpopular candidates to ever run for the presidency, both were known quantities with much of their support or opposition carved in stone. Add to that the billions spent on adds, the debates, the endless media coverage of the campaign and the unlimited sources for news and I dont see how any minds were changed by Russian interference. Half the country hated Trump and half the country hated Hillary. And that is basically how the election turned out
 
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