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Are you for a state ban on The Pill?

Ban The Pill in your state?

  • I'm pro-life --- I'm against banning The Pill.

    Votes: 16 20.5%

  • I'm pro-life --- I'm for banning The Pill.

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • I'm pro-choice --- I'm against banning The Pill.

    Votes: 60 76.9%

  • I'm pro-choice --- I'm for banning The Pill.

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Total voters
    78
Okay -- just to wrap up the actual poll/topic here --- only ONE pro-lifer says that the birth control pill should be banned. What say you, Jasper?

Josie said:
We're talking about people who want to take away women's right to take the birth control pill. Who wants to do that and how will they make it happen?
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JasperL said:
The simple answer to your question are basically all actually pro-life people.
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Do you agree now that not ALL pro-life people think the birth control pill should be banned?
 
Josie said:
Do you agree now that not ALL pro-life people think the birth control pill should be banned?
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Lol, you found one guy, do you really think that this proves anything? Most don't want to ban it. I think they're wrong, but most don't want it banned.
 
phattonez said:
Lol, you found one guy, do you really think that this proves anything? Most don't want to ban it. I think they're wrong, but most don't want it banned.
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Yes, I know. That was MY point.
 
Josie said:
Okay -- just to wrap up the actual poll/topic here --- only ONE pro-lifer says that the birth control pill should be banned. What say you, Jasper?

Do you agree now that not ALL pro-life people think the birth control pill should be banned?
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I stand by what I said earlier. Those who are pro-life and believe "life" begins at conception favor banning the pill, because the evidence is that it sometimes kills a fertilized egg, and is therefore an abortion that kills a life. A principled stance - life begins at conception - practically demands that the common birth control pill be banned. You can google "pro life groups" and find many that adopt this position, and it's because it's intellectually honest.

If your point is it's not universal among 'pro-life' people - fine. I'm proved wrong, which is common enough. I'm used to it!

It's also true enough that lots of pro-life people aren't all that principled when it comes down to it. They're on the pill and ignore that if they actually believe life begins when the egg is fertilized they'd have to use some other BC method. Lots of "pro-life" people also have no problem with in vitro procedures, although it's common for doctors to fertilize a dozen or more eggs then discard the remaining "lives" in the trash if not needed.
 
JasperL said:
I stand by what I said earlier. Those who are pro-life and believe "life" begins at conception favor banning the pill, because the evidence is that it sometimes kills a fertilized egg, and is therefore an abortion that kills a life. A principled stance - life begins at conception - practically demands that the common birth control pill be banned. You can google "pro life groups" and find many that adopt this position, and it's because it's intellectually honest.

If your point is it's not universal among 'pro-life' people - fine. I'm proved wrong, which is common enough. I'm used to it!

It's also true enough that lots of pro-life people aren't all that principled when it comes down to it. They're on the pill and ignore that if they actually believe life begins when the egg is fertilized they'd have to use some other BC method. Lots of "pro-life" people also have no problem with in vitro procedures, although it's common for doctors to fertilize a dozen or more eggs then discard the remaining "lives" in the trash if not needed.
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My point was simple just as your erroneous statement was. Your statement that "actually all pro-life people" want to ban the birth control pill just isn't true. I would venture to say that probably 90% or more of pro-lifers wouldn't be for it. Big of you to say you were wrong, though. Props.
 
phattonez said:
We are more important than the environment. We are more valuable.
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No we aren't. We will be long gone before the environment is. The environment will live on long past us. We will evolve or die out (maybe even kill ourselves).
 
phattonez said:
But if they could (which is a common trope in literature), would you be okay with it?
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But they do and this is a serious medical condition (both mental and physical) and not a literary trope (seriously?).
 
Josie said:
My point was simple just as your erroneous statement was. Your statement that "actually all pro-life people" want to ban the birth control pill just isn't true. I would venture to say that probably 90% or more of pro-lifers wouldn't be for it. Big of you to say you were wrong, though. Props.
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OK, but you slightly misquoted me. What I said was, "all actually pro-life people." What I meant by that were those who believe life really does begin at "conception" or the moment the egg is fertilized. I was trying to distinguish, effectively, those who are principled pro-lifers, versus those who are principled, so long as it doesn't interfere with their lives or those of their friends on several very common and effective forms of BC.

Bottom line is lots of research indicates the pill among other forms of BC is sometimes an abortifacient, i.e. kills fertilized eggs, or human lives if you believe life begins at conception. The pill is intended to stop ovulation and prevent fertilization, but if that fails (i.e. an egg is fertilized and life begins) it also works to kill the egg, or the baby, depending on your beliefs. I don't think principled pro-lifers will take a position, paraphrased obviously, "I'm pro-life and believe life begins at conception, and I take the pill because almost all of the time I won't be killing my little babies before the egg implants!"

And if laws are passed that define life as beginning at conception (I quoted one for you) then unless pro-lifers are a bunch of hypocrites, that will ban many forms of BC, because many forms at least sometimes kill "lives" under that definition. It's inconvenient I guess for some "pro-lifers" who don't want their favorite BC banned, but still a fact.
 
phattonez said:
And what do their doctors say when they're invariably asked about whether they're using contraceptives (assuming they're having sex)?
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Do you want children? (Answers vary.) If "no", are you using some form of protection? Again answers vary. And if they say no, then they discuss the options. Suggesting that they be put on birth control when they don't want children is pushing BC on those who don't want it. Some of my relatives simply do not need BC. Some of my friends are on it. But if they say they want children or don't mind if they get pregnant, then it is dropped (or they are given prenatal vitamins like I was given right before going home to get married despite not being pregnant). What is discussed is their options and what might be best for them or any potential children (or just having them) to avoid situations like one woman I know is currently in. It isn't good (and no I will not give you details). Perhaps if she was more strongly pushed towards BC though she wouldn't be in this particular situation.
 
JasperL said:
OK, but you slightly misquoted me. What I said was, "all actually pro-life people." What I meant by that were those who believe life really does begin at "conception" or the moment the egg is fertilized. I was trying to distinguish, effectively, those who are principled pro-lifers, versus those who are principled, so long as it doesn't interfere with their lives or those of their friends on several very common and effective forms of BC.

Bottom line is lots of research indicates the pill among other forms of BC is sometimes an abortifacient, i.e. kills fertilized eggs, or human lives if you believe life begins at conception. The pill is intended to stop ovulation and prevent fertilization, but if that fails (i.e. an egg is fertilized and life begins) it also works to kill the egg, or the baby, depending on your beliefs. I don't think principled pro-lifers will take a position, paraphrased obviously, "I'm pro-life and believe life begins at conception, and I take the pill because almost all of the time I won't be killing my little babies before the egg implants!"

And if laws are passed that define life as beginning at conception (I quoted one for you) then unless pro-lifers are a bunch of hypocrites, that will ban many forms of BC, because many forms at least sometimes kill "lives" under that definition. It's inconvenient I guess for some "pro-lifers" who don't want their favorite BC banned, but still a fact.
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Ah yes. Sorry about the misquote. My bad.
 
phattonez said:
The guy who's arguing semantics is talking about moving goalposts. Okay.

You don't think bulimia is wrong. Got it.
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Define wrong. Why are you so frightened to respond to this?
 
phattonez said:
We are more important than the environment. We are more valuable.
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No, we're not. Without an environment that sustains life, we are simply extinct, like dinosaurs, remnants of a planet which was once fertile with life, but is now dead and barren. How anyone cannot understand that is quite frankly beyond my comprehension.
 
zyzygy said:
They are busybodies who cannot keep their noses out of other peoples business.
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Unless said baby actually ends up growing up in a broken home and becomes a criminal.. that might be the only way they become someone else's problem.
 
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