Should women have the right, as they do now, to decide whether or not to use birth control pills?

minnie616 said:

I did not say that did I.

I said faith based abstence only clinic will not offer birth control meds and devices.

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Well, no that isn't what you said. You said:

It makes it harder since they are eliminating some of known sources and replacing them with clinics that offer absence only.

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The issue with Title X has nothing to do with birth control being limited. The idea that all or most of the grant money is going to organizations that teach abstinence only and don't provide any birth control is just a lie. The entire goal of the grant is to:

1001 – Title X Services
Grants under Section 1001 assist in the establishment and operation of voluntary family planning projects which provide a broad range of acceptable and effective family planning methods and related preventive health services that include natural family planning methods, infertility services, and services for adolescents; highly effective contraceptive methods; breast and cervical cancer screening and prevention services that correspond with nationally recognized standards of care; STD and HIV prevention education, counseling, testing, and referral; adolescent abstinence counseling; and other preventive health services.

The reason pro-choicers are whining about it is because:

The broad range of services does not include abortion as a method of family planning.

https://www.hhs.gov/opa/title-x-fam...-x-grants/statutes-and-regulations/index.html

So, no, it has nothing to do with limiting birth control and everything to do with abortion. Birth control is and still will be readily available to anyone who needs it. Facts matter.

Josie said:

Well, no that isn't what you said. You said:



The issue with Title X has nothing to do with birth control being limited. The idea that all or most of the grant money is going to organizations that teach abstinence only and don't provide any birth control is just a lie. The entire goal of the grant is to:

1001 – Title X Services
Grants under Section 1001 assist in the establishment and operation of voluntary family planning projects which provide a broad range of acceptable and effective family planning methods and related preventive health services that include natural family planning methods, infertility services, and services for adolescents; highly effective contraceptive methods; breast and cervical cancer screening and prevention services that correspond with nationally recognized standards of care; STD and HIV prevention education, counseling, testing, and referral; adolescent abstinence counseling; and other preventive health services.

The reason pro-choicers are whining about it is because:

The broad range of services does not include abortion as a method of family planning.

https://www.hhs.gov/opa/title-x-fam...-x-grants/statutes-and-regulations/index.html

So, no, it has nothing to do with limiting birth control and everything to do with abortion. Birth control is and still will be readily available to anyone who needs it. Facts matter.

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It does not include birth control information, birth control medication , or birth control devices for unmarried women.

minnie616 said:

It does not include birth control medication or devices for unmarried women.

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This is delusion. The HHS website I linked you to explains the grant money:

Statutes and Regulations
Title X Notice of Proposed Rulemaking
On June 1, 2018, HHS proposed to revise Title X regulations through a notice of proposed rulemaking published in the Federal Register entitled Compliance with Statutory Program Integrity Requirements.

Requirements regarding the provision of family planning services under Title X can be found in the statute (Title X of the Public Health Service Act, 42 U.S.C. 300, et seq. - PDF) and in the implementing regulations which govern project grants for family planning services (42 CFR part 59, subpart A). Regulations that apply to grants for training to support family planning service delivery can be found at 42 CFR part 59, Subpart C ("Grants for Family Planning Service Training"). In addition, sterilization of clients as part of the Title X program must be consistent with 42 CFR part 50 subpart B, ("Sterilization of Persons in Federally Assisted Family Planning Projects"). Title X of the Public Health Service Act authorizes the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) to award grants for projects to provide family planning services to any person desiring such services, with priority given to individuals from low–income families.

Five Major Provisions of the Law
1001 – Title X Services
Grants under Section 1001 assist in the establishment and operation of voluntary family planning projects which provide a broad range of acceptable and effective family planning methods and related preventive health services that include natural family planning methods, infertility services, and services for adolescents; highly effective contraceptive methods; breast and cervical cancer screening and prevention services that correspond with nationally recognized standards of care; STD and HIV prevention education, counseling, testing, and referral; adolescent abstinence counseling; and other preventive health services. The broad range of services does not include abortion as a method of family planning.

1003 – Title X Training
Grants under Section 1003 provide training for personnel working in family planning services projects described under Section 1001. The purpose of this training is to promote and improve the delivery of family planning services. Read more about the National Training Centers.

1004 – Title X Research
Grants and contracts under Section 1004 provide for projects for research in the biomedical, contraceptive development, behavioral, and program implementation fields related to family planning and population. Projects under this Section conduct data analysis and related research and evaluation on issues of interest to the family planning field, as well as research into specific topic areas related to service delivery improvement. Research on male reproductive health has been a focus of applied research activities since 1997. All research activities funded under Section 1004 support ensuring and improving the quality of family planning services. Read more about Title X Service Delivery Improvement activities.

1005 – Title X Information and Education
Grants and contracts under Section 1005 provide for the development and dissemination of informational and educational materials including the OPA website and the Title X family planning clinic locator database.

1008 – The Prohibition of Abortion
None of the funds appropriated under this title shall be used in programs where abortion is a method of family planning.

Content created by Office of Population Affairs
Content last reviewed on June 1, 2018

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Please show me where unmarried women are excluded from services.

Josie said:

This is delusion. The HHS website I linked you to explains the grant money:

...

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From The Hill

Abstinence-only education making a comeback under Trump

Advocates of comprehensive sex ed worry about the effect a shift toward abstinence-only education could have on plummeting teen pregnancy rates.

In 2015, there were about 23 births per 1,000 girls aged 15 to 19, a record low for the U.S., compared to 41 births per 1,000 girls in 2007.

“The unplanned teen pregnancy rate is at its lowest since 1990, but it’s hard to see how that trend will continue under Huber’s vision,” said Debra Hauser, president of Advocates for Youth, a sexuality education advocacy group in D.C.

Led by Huber’s Ascend, abstinence-only education has over the past few years been rebranded as “sexual risk avoidance education,” an approach proponents say mirrors other public health models that encourage the avoidance of a risk, like cigarette use.

These changes were reflected in a spending deal Congress passed in February. The $75 million Title V abstinence-only program was renamed “sexual risk avoidance education” (SRAE) and included new requirements that organizations receiving funding emphasize and prioritize the message that waiting until marriage to have sex is the best action.

While the programs still have to teach contraception, they can’t distribute it or demonstrate how it’s used.

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Abstinence-only education making a comeback under Trump | TheHill

minnie616 said:

From The Hill

Abstinence-only education making a comeback under Trump

Abstinence-only education making a comeback under Trump | TheHill

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I'm not sure how you think that bolsters your statement that unmarried women won't be allowed to have birth control.

From your article:

So far, the administration has encouraged organizations applying for Title X federal family planning funds to include in their programs a “meaningful emphasis” on “the benefits of avoiding sex” when communicating with adolescents and to use programs that don’t “normalize sexual risk behaviors.”

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That sounds great. What's wrong with that? Adolescents shouldn't be having sex and should be taught that it's normal to wait, not normal to have sex with anyone who wants it or anyone you date.

Also, the sex ed programs (which would be in schools) HAVE to teach about contraceptives. An emphasis on abstinence, but also teaching about birth control isn't "abstinence only". If it were "abstinence only" there would be no mention whatsoever of any kind of birth control. And it's in the sex ed program in schools where they teach about contraceptives, but don't distribute them, not all Title X agencies.

So, again, where do you get that any agencies that receive Title X money aren't allowed to give birth control to unmarried women? Where do you see that access to birth control will be limited?

Let me refresh your memory of what the HHS website says about the Title X grant. Nowhere does it say that Title X money goes only to "abstinence only" programs. Nowhere does it say birth control can only be given to married women. Nowhere does it say that birth control medication, methods, procedures and services aren't provided. It says exactly the opposite of that.

Five Major Provisions of the Law
1001 – Title X Services
Grants under Section 1001 assist in the establishment and operation of voluntary family planning projects which provide a broad range of acceptable and effective family planning methods and related preventive health services that include natural family planning methods, infertility services, and services for adolescents; highly effective contraceptive methods; breast and cervical cancer screening and prevention services that correspond with nationally recognized standards of care; STD and HIV prevention education, counseling, testing, and referral; adolescent abstinence counseling; and other preventive health services. The broad range of services does not include abortion as a method of family planning.
1003 – Title X Training
Grants under Section 1003 provide training for personnel working in family planning services projects described under Section 1001. The purpose of this training is to promote and improve the delivery of family planning services. Read more about the National Training Centers.

1004 – Title X Research
Grants and contracts under Section 1004 provide for projects for research in the biomedical, contraceptive development, behavioral, and program implementation fields related to family planning and population. Projects under this Section conduct data analysis and related research and evaluation on issues of interest to the family planning field, as well as research into specific topic areas related to service delivery improvement. Research on male reproductive health has been a focus of applied research activities since 1997. All research activities funded under Section 1004 support ensuring and improving the quality of family planning services. Read more about Title X Service Delivery Improvement activities.

1005 – Title X Information and Education
Grants and contracts under Section 1005 provide for the development and dissemination of informational and educational materials including the OPA website and the Title X family planning clinic locator database.

1008 – The Prohibition of Abortion
None of the funds appropriated under this title shall be used in programs where abortion is a method of family planning.

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The only reason people like yourself and Risky are making a stink about this is because it doesn't include programs where abortions are provided. Namely, Planned Parenthood.

OKgrannie said:

Ah, does it give you a warm fuzzy feeling to think of passing legislation to "protect the weakest among us"? You can take great pride in protecting innocent life? Try to understand this: forcing someone else to do something because you think it is right is not YOU protecting anything. There isn't anything admirable about forcing someone else to follow your beliefs. Especially since criminalizing abortion does nothing at all to stop them or even reduce the numbers of them.

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Forcing someone to follow your beliefs??? That's basically all law that has existed ever.
The validity of borders, the validity of taxation, the validity of private property - not everyone believes it but they're forced to respect it because civilization.

Risky Thicket said:

As the nation may well face the reversal of Roe v. Wade additional concerns are being expressed, one is birth control. Frankly I hadn't thought about it but I suppose it is a logical concern. Is it a logical concern?

The question then is: Should women have the right, as they do now, to decide for themselves whether or not to use birth control pills?

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No one should use birth control. It's not good for society. Demeaning the act by which we create new life is a mortal wound to society.

Harshaw said:

"Additional concerns being expressed" does not in any way mean they are actually credible concerns.

This is ludicrous, paranoid nonsense.

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This is where we should be heading. It wasn't that long ago that contraception was viewed with disgust and people wanted no part of it. Are we really all so much smarter than our great grandfathers? I'm highly skeptical.

phattonez said:

This is where we should be heading. It wasn't that long ago that contraception was viewed with disgust and people wanted no part of it. Are we really all so much smarter than our great grandfathers? I'm highly skeptical.

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What's the weather like out there on that fringe?

Harshaw said:

What's the weather like out there on that fringe?

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Currently I'm on the fringe. When considering the views of all men throughout all of history, trust me, I'm in the majority.

phattonez said:

Currently I'm on the fringe. When considering the views of all men throughout all of history, trust me, I'm in the majority.

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Entirely irrelevant to the question.

Harshaw said:

Entirely irrelevant to the question.

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Then what was your point, other than appealing to the majority?

Risky Thicket said:

As the nation may well face the reversal of Roe v. Wade additional concerns are being expressed, one is birth control. Frankly I hadn't thought about it but I suppose it is a logical concern. Is it a logical concern?

The question then is: Should women have the right, as they do now, to decide for themselves whether or not to use birth control pills?

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Do you feel comfortable with an exclusively Catholic supreme court making such a call?

phattonez said:

Then what was your point, other than appealing to the majority?

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Considering it's the majority which will prevail in our democracy, it's a valid appeal.

Harshaw said:

Considering it's the majority which will prevail in our democracy, it's a valid appeal.

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It's not an argument. Is society made better by devaluing the act by which we create new life?

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Harshaw said:

To the question? Of course.

The idea that it's any way in jeopardy? Stupidity on stilts. Unmitigated jackassery.

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The Republican attacks on funding Planned Parenthood could take the birth control option out of the hands of millions of women - and increase the demand for abortions.

phattonez said:

It's not an argument. Is society made better by devaluing the act by which we create new life?

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It's a compelling, even conclusive, argument for the topic of this thread. Whatever other thing you'd like to go on about really doesn't interest me much.

j brown's body said:

The Republican attacks on funding Planned Parenthood could take the birth control option out of the hands of millions of women - and increase the demand for abortions.

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Great. Nothing to do with what I said.

Harshaw said:

It's a compelling, even conclusive, argument for the topic of this thread. Whatever other thing you'd like to go on about really doesn't interest me much.

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It's quite telling that you don't want to answer that question.

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Howard the Duck said:

Do you feel comfortable with an exclusively Catholic supreme court making such a call?

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LOL, coming from an almost exclusive Catholic family and extended family that's a double loaded question. If the Supreme Court were comprised of my family members I'd be comfortable with it.

I don't support any religion in government. Mine, yours, theirs or anyones.

phattonez said:

No one should use birth control. It's not good for society. Demeaning the act by which we create new life is a mortal wound to society.

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Says who?

Women have no legal or moral obligation to proliferate the species. Actually, men have no legal or moral obligation to play out their reproductive role in proliferating the species.

If the human species croaks, then that’s the way the ball bounces.

If there’s actually a deity of some kind involved in human reproduction, if the human species crashes, that’s on the deity.

Removable Mind said:

Says who?

Women have no legal or moral obligation to proliferate the species. Actually, men have no legal or moral obligation to play out their reproductive role in proliferating the species.

If the human species croaks, then that’s the way the ball bounces.

If there’s actually a deity of some kind involved in human reproduction, if the human species crashes, that’s on the deity.

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Is society made better when we belittle the act by which we make new life? Is that good for the children?

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phattonez said:

Is society made better when we belittle the act by which we make new life? Is that good for the children?

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What children? If people don’t reproduce, it’s bad for governments tax revenues and church collection plates.

Risky Thicket said:

LOL, coming from an almost exclusive Catholic family and extended family that's a double loaded question. If the Supreme Court were comprised of my family members I'd be comfortable with it.

I don't support any religion in government. Mine, yours, theirs or anyones.

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If I am not mistaken Kavanaugh would be the ninth of nine sitting Catholic supreme court justices.

Howard the Duck said:

If I am not mistaken Kavanaugh would be the ninth of nine sitting Catholic supreme court justices.

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You wouldn't be correct: