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Report: Trump Insisted Crimea Is "Russian" Because Crimeans Speak Russian (G7)

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  • Poll closed .
Litwin said:
man you made the best post here, i am 100% agree with all you points , not only me EU, NATO, UN, etc.
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5. Putin and his military killed close to 200 of my country people and for that they are also evil and for that I extremely dislike (read hate even though I dislike the word hate but Putin and his military deserve this) Putin and the army that supports him and the brainless idiots who keep voting for this new Stalinesque bastard.
 
Peter King said:
It is this, it was gifted to the Soviet Union, not to Russia. The Soviet Union at that time was in power in the Ukraine, so not really a voluntary kind of thing IMHO but a gift from the Soviets to the Soviets.

1. there no longer is a Soviet Union
2. there is was no land link to Russia
3. it was illegally occupied, something that a country of laws should care about
4. Trump is a Putin loving idiot and will parrot Trump's views no matter what (he wants to win the next presidential election).
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When the Soviet Union broke up in 1991, President Boris Yeltsin of the new Russian Federation signed a number of documents with the Presidents of former Soviet Republics (SSR) such as Ukraine. These documents declared the independence and sovereignty of all former members of the USSR, and declared that state borders will remain exactly as they are at signing (1991). When these documents (such as the Belavezha Accords and the Alma-Ata Protocol) were signed (1991), Crimea was an integral part of Ukraine and had been so since 1954. The Russian Federation and Ukraine also signed a treaty (Joint Russo-Ukrainian Black Sea Fleet Agreement /1992) dividing up the Black Sea fleet (BSF/50%-50% split) of the USSR. In addition, the Russian Federation and Ukraine also signed a treaty in which Moscow agreed to pay Ukraine $97.75 million per year to lease the naval facilities at Sevastopol, Crimea for 20 years. This agreement was extended in 2010 to be valid until 2045 (Agreement between Ukraine and Russia on the Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine (Kharkiv Pact) - 2010).
 
Peter King said:
5. Putin and his military killed close to 200 of my country people and for that they are also evil and for that I extremely dislike (read hate even though I dislike the word hate but Putin and his military deserve this) Putin and the army that supports him and the brainless idiots who keep voting for this new Stalinesque bastard.
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whats interesting here both USSR and Gaddafi committed the similar crime and both them ended up very bad ...

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Just to bring this up, I have seen multiple times in this thread the tatars as being the natives of crimea, they are not and never were, they came to that region during the ottomen empire, actual native groups in crimea were of various european nomads like the scythians, who had long ago merged in with invading populations.
 
Rogue Valley said:
When the Soviet Union broke up in 1991, President Boris Yeltsin of the new Russian Federation signed a number of documents with the Presidents of former Soviet Republics (SSR) such as Ukraine. These documents declared the independence and sovereignty of all former members of the USSR, and declared that state borders will remain exactly as they are at signing (1991). When these documents (such as the Belavezha Accords and the Alma-Ata Protocol) were signed (1991), Crimea was an integral part of Ukraine and had been so since 1954. The Russian Federation and Ukraine also signed a treaty (Joint Russo-Ukrainian Black Sea Fleet Agreement /1992) dividing up the Black Sea fleet (BSF/50%-50% split) of the USSR. In addition, the Russian Federation and Ukraine also signed a treaty in which Moscow agreed to pay Ukraine $97.75 million per year to lease the naval facilities at Sevastopol, Crimea for 20 years. This agreement was extended in 2010 to be valid until 2045 (Agreement between Ukraine and Russia on the Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine (Kharkiv Pact) - 2010).
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the 2 states have recognized borders each other 100 times or so, in different agreements. last time in 2014
 
beerftw said:
Just to bring this up, I have seen multiple times in this thread the tatars as being the natives of crimea, they are not and never were, they came to that region during the ottomen empire, actual native groups in crimea were of various european nomads like the scythians, who had long ago merged in with invading populations.
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LOL, CT is recognized internationally as the natives , and your knowing of history is terrible
 
Litwin said:
LOL, CT is recognized internationally as the natives , and your knowing of history is terrible
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So native means you were there long after other groups of people were there? does that make whites the natives of america?


The tatars started around the 13th century, other ethnic groups had resided there going back more than a thousand years prior. They would technichally not be indegenous or native unless those terms were stretched to mean something it is not. Finding the actual native population of crimea would be a challenge, since the original inhabitants have not likely lived there in thousands of years as greece mongolia turkey and russia have all in the past forced populations out of the region.
 
beerftw said:
The tatars started around the 13th century, other ethnic groups had resided there going back more than a thousand years prior..
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Crimean Tatars and Turks would be far more indigenous to Crimea than Muscovy.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Crimean Tatars and Turks would be far more indigenous to Crimea than Muscovy.
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The slavs though had been in that region even longer, as have the greeks and the persions, fyi slavs are ancestors of most of eastern europe.

I do not in any way support their removal, even if not native their existence in the region for centuries justifies their right to be there, I hold an issue with the loose rewriting of definitions to hold a people of that region as native even though they have not been in that region much longer than white people have in the americas.
 
beerftw said:
The slavs though had been in that region even longer, as have the greeks and the persions, fyi slavs are ancestors of most of eastern europe.

I do not in any way support their removal, even if not native their existence in the region for centuries justifies their right to be there, I hold an issue with the loose rewriting of definitions to hold a people of that region as native even though they have not been in that region much longer than white people have in the americas.
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The Crimean Tatars were exiled en mass by Russia previously (1944). Now they again suffer persecution under Russian occupation.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The Crimean Tatars were exiled en mass by Russia previously (1944). Now they again suffer persecution under Russian occupation.
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You are correct they were exiled by stalin because some of them were supporting nazis, and let's face it stalin was not the best humanitarian, he tried to exile them to the middle east, in which a metric crapton died before they got there. His beef with them was nazi support, of course he did what any stalin would do and punish the entire ethnicity rather than punish traitors.
 
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