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The Singapore Summit Was:

The Singapore Summit Was:

  • A huge success. We're on the right track

    Votes: 10 10.6%

  • Another Trump Disaster. Trump is a clown.

    Votes: 18 19.1%

  • Let's wait and see what comes of it. I'm crossing my fingers.

    Votes: 66 70.2%
  • Total voters
    94
Moderate Right said:
I have to confess, you just informed me of the Turkey missile deal. I don't believe I knew that or I had forgotten. And yes, much goes on in secret that we are better off not knowing. The public often criticizes things they hear in the media when they have no clue that the world is one big 5D chess game. Most things I take as a grain of salt because we know so little about the other 4D's in the chess game.
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Exactly. There are moves and counter moves. If one is good at it, one makes the moves and has the others react to them. I think it was at least 20 years after JFK death that the removal of the missiles from Turkey on the grounds they had become obsolete six month after the Cuban missile Crisis became public knowledge. By then, no one cared. If one looked at the original deal for the USSR removal of the missiles and nukes from Cuban, you should know it would take more than just a pledge of not to invade. Perhaps some did, but we all were so relieved we bought the pledge, lock, stock and barrel.
 
iguanaman said:
The point is that Obama would have never done such a thing without concrete and verifiable concessions in advance. He also would not have declared the nuclear threat over after a nothing burger meeting. You do know that China has relaxed it's sanctions and is asking the UN to do the same because of this meeting and Trumps behavior towards Kim. There is no longer any reason for NK to even think of denuking.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/12/china-suggests-sanctions-relief-for-north-korea-after-trump-kim-summit.html
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Kim is not going to give up his nukes any more than we are. We may have been able to stop them from getting the nukes in the first place but that was the failure of previous administrations. We could go to war. That would force Kim to use what he has and we could destroy his ability to make more. A stupid idea but another solution. I think improving relations between NK and the rest of the world is a much better solution. So I will back Trump and his efforts to accomplish that. The next president can start a war or another 60 years of diplomatic sanctions and hate until they finally do attack us.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Kim is not going to give up his nukes any more than we are. We may have been able to stop them from getting the nukes in the first place but that was the failure of previous administrations. We could go to war. That would force Kim to use what he has and we could destroy his ability to make more. A stupid idea but another solution. I think improving relations between NK and the rest of the world is a much better solution. So I will back Trump and his efforts to accomplish that. The next president can start a war or another 60 years of diplomatic sanctions and hate until they finally do attack us.
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Why should we elevate Kim by falling for his bluff. What kind of message does that send to others who might be thinking about nukes? He is no more likely to start a suicidal war he can't win either way. By making Kim's regime "acceptable" we lose our leadership in yet another way. What about the possible withdrawal of our troops from S. Korea? Do you also see that as a positive?
 
iguanaman said:
Why should we elevate Kim by falling for his bluff. What kind of message does that send to others who might be thinking about nukes? He is no more likely to start a suicidal war he can't win either way. By making Kim's regime "acceptable" we lose our leadership in yet another way. What about the possible withdrawal of our troops from S. Korea? Do you also see that as a positive?
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Everyone knows acquiring nuclear capability along with a delivery system is a major bargaining chip in the big game of world politics. Do you really think it is some big secret. When we didn't stop NK from acquiring Nukes that was when we failed. Now he has chips in the game and is a player. Sanctions will only give NK an incentive to hand off a nuke to some terrorist and let them hit us with it. They will kill themselves in the process and our hands are tied. You do know that is the next step. Or we can do what Trump is doing and work towards living together peaceably. I know you don't think it is worth the effort but I think working towards a peaceful solution is clearly the smarter choice.

Opening the doors to NK doesn't cause us to lose our leadership. Just the opposite. The people of NK will see for themselves what is going on and that is the path to ending these regimes. A regimes strength lies in the support of the people. Once the people figure out that the rest of the world is not this evil entity and it was all a lie the regime loses support and crumbles.

Our troops should have been out of South Korea 50+ years ago. The handful of troops over there is not what is stopping NK from attacking SK. It is the fact that we will kick their a$$ if they start the war up again.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Everyone knows acquiring nuclear capability along with a delivery system is a major bargaining chip in the big game of world politics. Do you really think it is some big secret. When we didn't stop NK from acquiring Nukes that was when we failed. Now he has chips in the game and is a player. Sanctions will only give NK an incentive to hand off a nuke to some terrorist and let them hit us with it. They will kill themselves in the process and our hands are tied. You do know that is the next step. Or we can do what Trump is doing and work towards living together peaceably. I know you don't think it is worth the effort but I think working towards a peaceful solution is clearly the smarter choice.

Opening the doors to NK doesn't cause us to lose our leadership. Just the opposite. The people of NK will see for themselves what is going on and that is the path to ending these regimes. A regimes strength lies in the support of the people. Once the people figure out that the rest of the world is not this evil entity and it was all a lie the regime loses support and crumbles.

Our troops should have been out of South Korea 50+ years ago. The handful of troops over there is not what is stopping NK from attacking SK. It is the fact that we will kick their a$$ if they start the war up again.
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LOl You are totally clueless about the situation inside N. Korea. You also want to leave the S. Koreans defenseless against the superior N. Korean military. I'm sure that attitude will make our allies in the Pacific run towards China and I'm sure you will like that too. Your isolationist views are idiotic and dangerous.
 
iguanaman said:
LOl You are totally clueless about the situation inside N. Korea. You also want to leave the S. Koreans defenseless against the superior N. Korean military. I'm sure that attitude will make our allies in the Pacific run towards China and I'm sure you will like that too. Your isolationist views are idiotic and dangerous.
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South Korea has a lot more money and resources available to them than North Korea. It is time to tax their people like we are taxed to build their own army to defend themselves. Plus just because we don't have a standing army in South Korea does not mean we cannot come to their aid the same as we did Kuwait. There is nothing to say we can't supply them with weapons and train them to take our place on the front line. The infrastructure has already been built and paid for by us.

I had many friends in the Army that sat in towers with an M50 in South Korea. Their is no reason a South Korean teenager can't sit in that tower and do the same job. Sorry but you are the one who is clueless. As long as our children are putting their lives on the line and are doing their job why should they bother.


What is this isolationist crap? Sorry but we do not have to have a standing army in every country in this world. You can save that bull for the clueless as well.
 
Moderate Right said:
Whether you like it or not, he is a legitimate world leader, just like Putin and XI.
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Not necessarily so. The legitimacy of a state or leader on the world stage, is whether it or he is recognized. And Trump now proclaimed Kim a "good guy".

Moderate Right said:
Oh please. Obama let Russia annex Crimea. Obama allowed Syria to use chemical weapons after drawing a red line. Obama signed a horrible deal with Iran (with a cash payout of billions of dollars), culminated by a sunset clause.
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Which has nothing to do with Trump elevating Kim ...
 
Chomsky said:
Not necessarily so. The legitimacy of a state or leader on the world stage, is whether it or he is recognized. And Trump now proclaimed Kim a "good guy".

Which has nothing to do with Trump elevating Kim ...
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Nonsense. The entire world knows that Kim is the legitimate leader of NK. Whether he is liked or not is another matter or how ruthless he is is another matter. Whether the right liked it or not, Obama was the legitimate president of the US for 8 years. Whether the left likes it or not, Trump is the legitimate president now. Whether the world likes it or not, Assad is the legitimate leader of Syria, Kim is the legitimate leader of NK, Putin is the legitimate leader of Russia, and XI is the legitimate leader of China. Kim isn't any more respected now than he was before other than people hoping he is actually serious about denuking.
 
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