Democrats and liberals - are you sick of the SJW Left?

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

Click to expand...

Depends on your definition of SJW. To some on the right if you are for gay marriage being legal you are a SJW.

Martin Luther King was a "SJW". When someone uses the concept of being a "social justice warrior" in a derogatory manner, I see someone who believes that wanting equal justice for everyone under the law is an unacceptable burden on conservative whites.

In effect, it's like a minority using the term "Whitey Lover" to disparage anyone who doesn't hate whites. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why anyone with an IQ beyond that of a boiled turnip would in good conscience believe it to be some kind of politically correct pejorative.

As per your request....
:bolt

No NO NO NO, not referring to classical heroes from the past.
I'm talking about the kind of people you see on college campuses today screaming for SAFE SPACES.

With anything in life, when taken to extremes, anything can become ridiculous.

There are some people out there on the left that are being very silly at the moment and especially around the whole gender pro-noun thing which I'll just use as an example in this case.

And all it is for me is an issue of language evolution, I'm not like some conservatives freaking out over it and being very belligerent over it but I think it's something that is flavor of the month at the moment, it's never going to catch on, the public at large is never going to adopt that way of speaking I don't think, I could be wrong but with how many there are and how complex it is and with some people being really over the top about it and for some even more extreme that it's something people should just know to do or that there should be some kind of legal obligation to do so, nah that's just, you're shooting yourself in the foot if you think that's the way to introduce something like that into general society.

And as the great CC would say, it's all about presentation and there are many out there that are not doing that very well when trying to make their case on the left side but that's the case for EVERY side, every side has people like that.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

Click to expand...

I have never liked SJW types. Then again, I have never been able to stand the cultural warriors on the right either.

DiAnna said:

Martin Luther King was a "SJW". When someone uses the concept of being a "social justice warrior" in a derogatory manner, I see someone who believes that wanting equal justice for everyone under the law is an unacceptable burden on conservative whites.

In effect, it's like a minority using the term "Whitey Lover" to disparage anyone who doesn't hate whites. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why anyone with an IQ beyond that of a boiled turnip would in good conscience believe it to be some kind of politically correct pejorative.

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I think when you but "warrior" on anything that isn't actually related to combat, the idea is that it's someone with over the top virtue signaling but with no real skin in the game. Something like a keyboard commando, here. There's righty versions too, like social conservative warriors. Both are real impressed with how much more moral they are to everyone else.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

Click to expand...

Every single social justice movement in history has produced a fierce backlash. Every single one. So the backlash in modern times is pathetically predictable.

X Factor said:

I think when you but "warrior" on anything that isn't actually related to combat, the idea is that it's someone with over the top virtue signaling but with no real skin in the game. Something like a keyboard commando, here. There's righty versions too, like social conservative warriors. Both are real impressed with how much more moral they are to everyone else.

Click to expand...

X, it's what they call themselves.
I did not create the label.

I am vehemently against fascism, but there is a "brand name" collection of groups who call themselves "ANTIFA".
They're NOTHING LIKE the AntiFa groups in EU/UK, but that's what they call themselves.
As much as I despise fascism, Klan, National Socialism, white supremacists, you will never see me march with ANTIFA.
I do not buy into most of their other values statements.

There's the "NEW Black Panther Party". The ORIGINAL Black Panthers DESPISE them to the marrow of their bones, and the NBPP is nothing like the original BP's but again, that is their label.

There's the Black Bloque. They don't give two ****s about anybody. A lot of people think they're on the Left but I assure you, I know a lot of liberals who have had the **** beat out of them by Black Bloque anarchists. They're parasites...they have reason to believe that they won't get their asses shot by ordinary leftist protesters, so the leftist protesters are a convenient host body.

The social justice warriors are the entitled screechy whiny kids you see demanding safe spaces, crying about "being triggered" and censoring opposing views on campuses.

DiAnna brought up Martin Luther King. Did you EVER see MLK saying he was triggered, or demanding censorship?

I'm talking about these people:



Are they helping liberal causes? Are they a good look for typical Democrats or other liberals?
I don't happen to think that they are.
Your mileage may vary.

Phys251 said:

Every single social justice movement in history has produced a fierce backlash. Every single one. So the backlash in modern times is pathetically predictable.

Click to expand...

As someone else pointed out, it's all about the presentation.
Martin Luther King was all about social justice.
The screaming kids on campuses are about safe spaces and nurturing their own cocoons.

They're apparently unable to fight using intellect, using superior ideas, superior logic, so they cry and whine, and break things instead.
And like any fundamentalist group, their circle seems to get smaller and smaller as time goes by.

No true Scotsman...

I am definitely liberal on social issues and agree with much of what SJWs believe. My problem is with the tactics used by some of the more active groups. With many of these groups, particularly at some of the colleges, it is no longer about countering your opposition with better arguments, it is about silencing them before anyone even gets to hear the opposition’s side. They will intimidate venues to not allow a particular speaker to speak. They organize boycotts of shows they never even watched in the first place. Sometimes they will just yell so loud that the speaker can’t be heard.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not claiming this is a violation of free speech. Only the government can do that. I’m not saying such tactics are illegal. I am saying such tactics are wrong, unethical, and cowardly.

I always felt one of the most noble of American attitudes was “I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

And that is a value that is currently under attack by some of the extreme SJWs. And more and more conservatives are using this cowardly technique in retaliation as well, though it is still predominately college-aged liberals.

It is as if being offended is the worst possible thing that can happen to someone and we have to all be protected from it by any means necessary. Bull ****. No harm is done to us when we are offended. Be offended. And then counter the argument or move on with your life.

Almost picked three, but there's too much "everybody gets a trophy" in it.

The world is an ugly place. Many human beings suck.

But its kinda "whine or tear **** up". That's the reality of their options to address their concerns.

The "safe space" is a stupid concept

There was a time when your fellow man was your "safe space". But you aren't allowed to step up and intervene, without facing dire consequences. Unintended(?) ones as a result of the state's monopoly on the use of force beyond immediate threat to life. Bullies used to get touched up by someone they couldn't bully. Men who groped or got put of line other ways with women got touched up by bystanders. Now the bullies need counseling and must be told on and men who get out of line must have their lives desteoyed.

We have become soft where we should be strong and hard where we should take all of it in perspective.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

Click to expand...

By and large, yes.

I support their message and pursuits generally, but I don't agree with the lengths they go to say it in some cases (particularly their attempts to intimidate the right into silence per Skeptic Bob), and I feel in many cases these more extreme actions do their goals a stark disservice.

My biggest issue with SJW types by far is how identity politics ends up crowding out more substantive, broadly popular and politically viable policy on taxation, healthcare, education, regulatory and electoral reform and so on; establishment Dems have cynically used them, and ID politics (as well as gun control/other wedge issues) for too long as a smokescreen to obscure and justify their lack of commitment to these things, because it conveniently gives them 'street cred' among the left without actually harming the financial interests of their well-heeled megadonors who want no part of FDR style ideas that might see their businesses better regulated, their taxes increased and political influence (per electoral reform and replacement of neoliberal/third way democrats goes) threatened.

Personally I think the Democratic party should commit to both social _and_ economic progressivism rather than just or predominantly the former.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

X, it's what they call themselves.
I did not create the label.

I am vehemently against fascism, but there is a "brand name" collection of groups who call themselves "ANTIFA".
They're NOTHING LIKE the AntiFa groups in EU/UK, but that's what they call themselves.
As much as I despise fascism, Klan, National Socialism, white supremacists, you will never see me march with ANTIFA.
I do not buy into most of their other values statements.

There's the "NEW Black Panther Party". The ORIGINAL Black Panthers DESPISE them to the marrow of their bones, and the NBPP is nothing like the original BP's but again, that is their label.

There's the Black Bloque. They don't give two ****s about anybody. A lot of people think they're on the Left but I assure you, I know a lot of liberals who have had the **** beat out of them by Black Bloque anarchists. They're parasites...they have reason to believe that they won't get their asses shot by ordinary leftist protesters, so the leftist protesters are a convenient host body.

The social justice warriors are the entitled screechy whiny kids you see demanding safe spaces, crying about "being triggered" and censoring opposing views on campuses.

DiAnna brought up Martin Luther King. Did you EVER see MLK saying he was triggered, or demanding censorship?

I'm talking about these people:

View attachment 67233820

Are they helping liberal causes? Are they a good look for typical Democrats or other liberals?
I don't happen to think that they are.
Your mileage may vary.

Click to expand...

I hear you. MLK was a genuine civil rights activist or heck, I don't think "hero" would be an overstatement. I could never see him as a SJW. Unlike MLK the "warriors" on both sides are more interested in finger wagging and division.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

As someone else pointed out, it's all about the presentation.
Martin Luther King was all about social justice.
The screaming kids on campuses are about safe spaces and nurturing their own cocoons.

They're apparently unable to fight using intellect, using superior ideas, superior logic, so they cry and whine, and break things instead.
And like any fundamentalist group, their circle seems to get smaller and smaller as time goes by.

No true Scotsman...

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I forgot the other part--Scapegoats. Opponents of social justice always create and maintain scapegoats. Happens every single time. The anti's don't listen to what the social justice advocates are really saying: they single out the ones they don't like and deliberately obfuscate the overall message. The point of scapegoating isn't even for the anti's to be 100% correct: it's simply to divert the discussion onto one that's completely meaningless so that the much bigger issues never get addressed. For example, the badly-maligned story about women who burned their bras during a protest in the '60s.

Surrealistik said:

By and large, yes.

I support their message and pursuits generally, but I don't agree with the lengths they go to say it in some cases (particularly their attempts to intimidate the right into silence per Skeptic Bob), and I feel in many cases these more extreme actions do their goals a stark disservice.

My biggest issue with SJW types by far is how identity politics ends up crowding out more substantive, broadly popular and politically viable policy on taxation, healthcare, education, regulatory and electoral reform and so on; establishment Dems have cynically used them, and ID politics (as well as gun control/other wedge issues) for too long as a smokescreen to obscure and justify their lack of commitment to these things, because it conveniently gives them 'street cred' among the left without actually harming the financial interests of their well-heeled megadonors who want no part of FDR style ideas that might see their businesses better regulated, their taxes increased and political influence (per electoral reform and replacement of neoliberal/third way democrats goes) threatened.

Personally I think the Democratic party should commit to both social _and_ economic progressivism rather than just or predominantly the former.

Click to expand...

BOOM - mic drop. Well said. :applaud

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

Click to expand...

SJW is like any other label. It is something used by people who cannot formulate a coherent argument. Instead of making an actual argument, they attach a label(SJW in this case) and argue against the label.

It's not what you say - it's how you say it.

I agree with them on a lot of their stances, but I disagree with how they present themselves. All they are doing is alienating people who could be beneficial to their cause.

Protesting is a wonderful thing, if done correctly. But you can do just as much damage to your cause as you can good, if you are not careful.

X Factor said:

I hear you. MLK was a genuine civil rights activist or heck, I don't think "hero" would be an overstatement. I could never see him as a SJW. Unlike MLK the "warriors" on both sides are more interested in finger wagging and division.

Click to expand...

Well technically DiAnna IS correct, his stated goals were called "social justice" verbatim.
Put it this way:

I'm a rock, soul and blues guy, okay?
But I do have an abiding love for Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Kris Kristofferson, and those guys are what most people label as "country music" artists.

Now, take most of the utter garbage that passes for country music today. It LITERALLY is the same four songs over and over.
Exact same chords, same everything. People have actually overdubbed as many as EIGHT current country hits onto the same tracks and it was the most disturbing thing because they all matched up note for note and they all sounded like deranged beer commercials.

So I guess the point I am getting at is, MLK was for social justice...I could not begin to tell you what the moronic kids on campus are "for" because they're so triggered half the time you can't even get a simple discussion out of them.
So I don't even bother.

Too many people on the Right LOVE them, however.
They're very useful to the Right.

When I read the posts from conservatives who are bashing people on my side, I want to get in their grille and say,

"I'm HERE, I'm right here, talk to ME, I will tell you what I stand for, I have broad views on issues, there's common ground to be had, but don't talk at me, don't talk past me.
Talk TO ME.
Ask ME questions, ask my FRIENDS questions, don't spew about the triggered kiddies, ask me."

I find that I am so busy "defending things" or countering nonsense that there's very little energy left over for settling on common ground.
It takes twice as much energy to counter bull****.

I am dropping in the best two sentences I have read so far today:

Victor Davis Hanson

At some point, progressivism begins to collapse by the weight of its own internal contradictions and becomes faith-based. Future anthropologists will have a difficult time sorting out all the bizarre rituals and sacraments of this early 21st-century progressive cult.

Click to expand...

https://amgreatness.com/2017/04/18/fundamentalist-nihilism/

Hawkeye10 said:

I am dropping in the best two sentences I have read so far today:

Victor Davis Hanson

https://amgreatness.com/2017/04/18/fundamentalist-nihilism/

Click to expand...

Trumpism already passed the collapse stage a long time ago and now we're starting to see the signs of a black hole forming, from which facts, not even light particles, can escape.

But yes, this is all about fundamentalism.
I look at the nonsense on campuses and they look and sound like fundies to me, every bit as much as the Ayn Rand crowd, or the white supremacists.

People who are "working for social justice" are not the same species of college campus "social justice warriors".

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

Click to expand...

SJW-ism isn't something I encounter IRL. To be honest, if it weren't for the internet I would never know that it was even a thing.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Trumpism already passed the collapse stage a long time ago and now we're starting to see the signs of a black hole forming, from which facts, not even light particles, can escape.

But yes, this is all about fundamentalism.
I look at the nonsense on campuses and they look and sound like fundies to me, every bit as much as the Ayn Rand crowd, or the white supremacists.

People who are "working for social justice" are not the same species of college campus "social justice warriors".

Click to expand...

What you see is America breaking down after a half century of neglect, which is everyone fault.

You should re-friend me you know, you were right that I am one of the Good Guys.

I will keep a light on for you (You dont come off my list).

I've never been very fond of "safe spaces". Saddle-up and fight for your political/social positions.