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Who is it up to if this window is open or closed?

Who is it up to if this window is open or closed?

  • Both of you idiots are kicked off the plane

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A sociological rorschach test:

You take your window seat on an airplane and open the window that is unambiguously within your space (it is not, in other words, half on your side and half on the side of the person in front of you or in back of you). A person then takes the seat in front of you, and closes your window in order to sleep. You open it some time later without a word to that person. The person glares at you and shuts it again.

Who is it up to if this window is open or closed?

window.jpg

This is based on the scenario described by Benjamin Wittes at https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/999780789595275265

1)It’s up to you
2)It’s up to the other person
3)Joint jurisdiction
4)Both of you idiots are kicked off the plane
5)To be determined by mortal combat

Keep in mind that though the last option may be the funny sounding one, what you're essentially agreeing to is that the jurisdiction is determined by who is most aggressive in this situation.
 
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Since it is United, you probably shouldn't make too many waves.

Otherwise, I'd suggest it depends on the location of the sun--whose seat is the sun shining on?
 
The window is like 95% on my side, so if I want to open it, it's technically by my seat.

That being said, I wouldn't be a dick about it (unless the person was a dick to me first).
 
A sociological rorschach test:

You take your window seat on an airplane and open the window that is unambiguously within your space (it is not, in other words, half on your side and half on the side of the person in front of you or in back of you). A person then takes the seat in front of you, and closes your window in order to sleep. You open it some time later without a word to that person. The person glares at you and shuts it again.

Who is it up to if this window is open or closed?

View attachment 67233471

This is based on the scenario described by Benjamin Wittes at https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/999780789595275265

1)It’s up to you
2)It’s up to the other person
3)Joint jurisdiction
4)Both of you idiots are kicked off the plane
5)To be determined by mortal combat

Keep in mind that though the last option may be the funny sounding one, what you're essentially agreeing to is that the jurisdiction is determined by who is most aggressive in this situation.

The window stays open
 
Since it is United, you probably shouldn't make too many waves.

Otherwise, I'd suggest it depends on the location of the sun--whose seat is the sun shining on?

Good point, I only fly American
 
Wait - is this one of those, "NONE OF THESE, dumb ass! You open the window and everybody dies!" answers?

Or are we talking window shade?
 
Glared at you? I'd hold it open, smile back with a **** eating grin, come what may.
 
Courtesy and manners are not part of flying any longer. The flying public is the most ill-mannered segment of society. It does not help that the airlines try to pack as many people into as small a space as physically possible. Many modern airplanes have done away with the directional air nozzles. Years ago, I rotated my nozzle to get some air about the same time that the passenger in front of me dropped his seat back into my lap. After a short time, he reached up and rotated the air nozzle to closed. I reached up and turned the flow back on. After a few back and forths, he complained to me. I told him to get back in his space as he was in my space.......initially you have to try to get along, then someone gets dragged off the plane......friendly sky’s ass!
 
Joint jurisdiction. You work it out between yourselves if at all possible, otherwise it falls into the jurisdiction of an authority to adjudicate (the airline).

But I would never let it get as far as to sneakily open the window when the other person drifted off. I would have confronted them with my preference immediately upon their reaching to close it the first time. Then I'd work it out from there, to an appropriate solution.
 
Wait - is this one of those, "NONE OF THESE, dumb ass! You open the window and everybody dies!" answers?

Or are we talking window shade?

Yes. We are talking about the shade. This is not based on that scene from "Airplane!"
 
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Glared at you? I'd hold it open, smile back with a **** eating grin, come what may.
Yeah, that does change the equation - I will admit.

I never would have let it get that far. If I had objections, I'd confront them immediately when they closed the shade
 
Joint jurisdiction. You work it out between yourselves if at all possible, otherwise it falls into the jurisdiction of an authority to adjudicate (the airline).

But I would never let it get as far as to sneakily open the window when the other person drifted off. I would have confronted them with my preference immediately upon their reaching to close it the first time. Then I'd work it out from there, to an appropriate solution.

One thing I'm continually amazed by is how bad I am at confronting people in situations like these. I feel stupid for not having figured out such a basic co-existence skill set by now, but then I remember that this describes a huge number of people.

I genuinely believe that a course on dealing with low-level conflict resolution, prepared by a psychology expert, should be taught in every school.
 
Good point, I only fly American

I was just on a flight this weekend, on American, with a similar window orientation. While there was no issue with the person in front of me, my wife next to me wanted the window closed. It stayed closed until the sun shifted away from shining on her.
 
i am a big guy....6'4" 250....i dont fly coach ever anymore

and these are the type of problems that rarely occur in business or 1st class

thank god....i might get arrested with jerks like that on planes
 
Courtesy and manners are not part of flying any longer. The flying public is the most ill-mannered segment of society. It does not help that the airlines try to pack as many people into as small a space as physically possible. Many modern airplanes have done away with the directional air nozzles. Years ago, I rotated my nozzle to get some air about the same time that the passenger in front of me dropped his seat back into my lap. After a short time, he reached up and rotated the air nozzle to closed. I reached up and turned the flow back on. After a few back and forths, he complained to me. I told him to get back in his space as he was in my space.......initially you have to try to get along, then someone gets dragged off the plane......friendly sky’s ass!

True enough then with that cramped in feeling seats have also been modified that many do not recline as far as they used to.
Some passengers have taken to using these knee defender, prevent the seat in from from reclining. Then the fight begins
Could not upload the photo. Too large
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2014/...in-air-fight-that-actually-grounded-the-plane
 
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I was just on a flight this weekend, on American, with a similar window orientation. While there was no issue with the person in front of me, my wife next to me wanted the window closed. It stayed closed until the sun shifted away from shining on her.

Well the sun is always shining on my wife
 
I was just on a flight this weekend, on American, with a similar window orientation. While there was no issue with the person in front of me, my wife next to me wanted the window closed. It stayed closed until the sun shifted away from shining on her.

Benjamin Wittes doesn't offer this detail, but it seems reasonable to me to think that this was a sun beam issue.

Now place yourself in the reverse position: you're the one who wants to sleep and a sun beam from a window that's clearly in the zone of the person behind you is shining directly in your face, and the person in that seat wants to keep the window open. How do you deal with that?
 
Yeah, that does change the equation - I will admit.

I never would have let it get that far. If I had objections, I'd confront them immediately when they closed the shade

Not something I get concerned about- though on take off and landing I like the window blind open, just in case we all die
 
Yeah, that does change the equation - I will admit.

I never would have let it get that far. If I had objections, I'd confront them immediately when they closed the shade

How would you have confronted that person?
 
i am a big guy....6'4" 250....i dont fly coach ever anymore

and these are the type of problems that rarely occur in business or 1st class

thank god....i might get arrested with jerks like that on planes


We used to travel outside the US at least twice a year. We were there for the advent of ‘economy plus’, when the airlines figured out that certain seats were more valuable than others. After we both had retired, we decided to spend the extra fare on business and what a difference. On the ground, looking at the difference in fare, it’s ridiculous, but once experienced, you just cannot go back.
Another flying story, we were still flying economy at the time, me and the missus boarded, she had the dreaded middle seat and I had the aisle. The window seat was occupied and the woman was visibly upset. The attendant made their rounds and asked if there was anything wer needed. We let her know that we were fine but maybe there was something she could do for our seatmate who was crying softly by that time. The attendant brushed the comment away and said that the woman was only upset because her carry on was too large and they made her check it for an additional fee.
 
One thing I'm continually amazed by is how bad I am at confronting people in situations like these. I feel stupid for not having figured out such a basic co-existence skill set by now, but then I remember that this describes a huge number of people.

I genuinely believe that a course on dealing with low-level conflict resolution, prepared by a psychology expert, should be taught in every school.
That's interesting, because while we seem to agree on so much politically and in terms of ethical behaviour, we have a large personality difference here it would seem.

All I can think of, is my family always had small business, including my mom's business locate in our family building below the apartment where we lived. I was a paperboy at a young age, and we all helped my mom out in her shop since very young.

So from a very young age we learned to deal and negotiate with people, and to negotiate business. I had a "collecting" paper-route, which means at 10 years old I had to collect the money from my customers, negotiate my services with them, and if need be I had to cut them off. But most importantly, if I wanted to make money and grow my business, I had to provide win-win solutions where both my customer was happy and I would profit.

In addition, I was knocking on doors and doing precinct work for our precinct captain from around the same young age too. And that greatly developed interpersonal skills at a young age, too.

So now as an adult, I couldn't imagine not first dealing with the individual directly, in order to facilitate resolution of a problem. But then I have confidence in my ability to solve interpersonal and business problems, particularly at the individual level. I've been doing it all my life! It even helps in my marriage & with my kids!
 
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Benjamin Wittes doesn't offer this detail, but it seems reasonable to me to think that this was a sun beam issue.

Now place yourself in the reverse position: you're the one who wants to sleep and a sun beam from a window that's clearly in the zone of the person behind you is shining directly in your face, and the person in that seat wants to keep the window open. How do you deal with that?

I tend to err on the side of courtesy either way. The longer the flight, the more compromise that is expected. If people are arguing about the window being open or closed on an hour flight, then that is a serious people issue. When in a window seat and actually flying over something, I like to look outside. Flying is still an amazing thing to me and I hope I never lose that. If we are over water, you really aren't seeing much.

Short answer, it depends on all those specifics.
 
A sociological rorschach test:

You take your window seat on an airplane and open the window that is unambiguously within your space (it is not, in other words, half on your side and half on the side of the person in front of you or in back of you). A person then takes the seat in front of you, and closes your window in order to sleep. You open it some time later without a word to that person. The person glares at you and shuts it again.

Who is it up to if this window is open or closed?

View attachment 67233471

This is based on the scenario described by Benjamin Wittes at https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/999780789595275265

1)It’s up to you
2)It’s up to the other person
3)Joint jurisdiction
4)Both of you idiots are kicked off the plane
5)To be determined by mortal combat

Keep in mind that though the last option may be the funny sounding one, what you're essentially agreeing to is that the jurisdiction is determined by who is most aggressive in this situation.

I fly all the time. In that scenario and based on that picture, it's up to me.
 
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