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Would you vote a black gay republican ?

Would you vote a black gay republican ?

  • Total voters
    65
Felis Leo said:
Well, I would point out that are no "atheist" principles. There are plenty of political ideologies that require one to be an atheist (see: Communism). Atheism is not a belief system; it is a lack of one. Atheism itself is simply the lack of belief in a God. Nothing more than that. Most Buddhists, for example, are technically atheists. Their lack of a belief in God would not (and does not) prevent them from being conservatives. My atheism does not prevent me from being a fiscal/social/foreign policy conservative or advocating conservative principles, although I may not be a "real" conservative by your measure due to my lack of belief in a God.
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So by what argument would an atheist condemn sodomy?
 
phattonez said:
So by what argument would an atheist condemn sodomy?
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I do not condemn sodomy per se, because I do not see expressions of homosexual love as inherently wrong. That is generally a religious prohibition mandated by most readings of the Abrahamic monotheistic faiths, i.e., Judaism, Christianity and Islam. But I do not see how those particular condemnations are of any more social utility than social restrictions on the length of one's beards, the consistency of fabrics one wears, or dietary restrictions. Rather, what I condemn is non-monogamous self-indulgent hedonism which often ends up leading to one's self-destruction.

Lest you think that I am some form of libertine (which you may anyway), the reason I consider myself a conservative and not a simply another atheist libertarian is because I stress the need for personal virtue, responsibility and self-restraint over self-indulgent exercises of liberty under the appeal to rights. Without responsibility and virtuousness, liberty simply devolves into license, i.e., the freedom to behave as wickedly as one wants without immediate consequence. What I condemn is non-monogamous hedonism (which, as I said, leads to untold misery), selfism, and acts of personal profligacy.
 
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Medusa said:
Republicans can vote ,thanks
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I could care less who anybody sleeps with so long as it is legal and I don't have to watch.

I could care less what the color of anybody's skin is.

But if the candidate supports the right values and vision for the country, and he/she has a track record to support his/her claims, that person gets my vote.
 
Felis Leo said:
I do not condemn sodomy per se, because I do not see expressions of homosexual love as inherently wrong. That is generally a religious prohibition mandated by most readings of the Abrahamic monotheistic faiths, i.e., Judaism, Christianity and Islam. But I do not see how those particular condemnations are of any more social utility than social restrictions on the length of one's beards, the consistency of fabrics one wears, or dietary restrictions. Rather, what I condemn is non-monogamous self-indulgent hedonism which often ends up leading to one's self-destruction.

Lest you think that I am some form of libertine (which you may anyway), the reason I consider myself a conservative and not a simply another atheist libertarian is because I stress the need for personal virtue, responsibility and self-restraint over self-indulgent exercises of liberty under the appeal to rights. Without responsibility and virtuousness, liberty simply devolves into license, i.e., the freedom to behave as wickedly as one wants without immediate consequence. What I condemn is non-monogamous hedonism (which, as I said, leads to untold misery), selfism, and acts of personal profligacy.
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But how do you convince others to not indulge in this? What can you appeal to?
 
phattonez said:
But how do you convince others to not indulge in this? What can you appeal to?
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Well, by appeal to their reason, and not just their base emotions. As a religious person, I am sure you would agree with me that human beings are endowed with reason. I would simply point anyone who is willing to engage me in a discussion of personal morality to people who engage in self-indulgent hedonism, and how they wind up destroying themselves. A person who takes illegal narcotics feels greater levels of immediate pleasure than the human body is normally able to feel in nature...but as anyone who has ever seen a methamphetamine addict scrounging through trash in a back-alley can tell you, the pursuit of pleasure rarely leads to long-term happiness.

Likewise, in sexual matters, people who engage in wanton sexual liberality (gay or straight) end up destroying themselves. Whether you are talking about anonymous sexual encounters leading to horrible and sometimes deadly diseases, unplanned pregnancies, increasing the likelihood of being the victim and (or perhaps even becoming the perpetrator) of sexual assault/rape, or simply to depression and a sense of crushing ennui.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I could care less who anybody sleeps with so long as it is legal and I don't have to watch.

I could care less what the color of anybody's skin is.

But if the candidate supports the right values and vision for the country, and he/she has a track record to support his/her claims, that person gets my vote.
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"Right Values" is subjective for everyone. I may have values I consider "right", but you may not.
 
enderpotato00 said:
"Right Values" is subjective for everyone. I may have values I consider "right", but you may not.
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And I'm sure you vote what whatever you consider 'right values' just as I do. Or I certainly hope you do.
 
phattonez said:
You really don't see a cultural divide between blacks and whites in this country?
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Such a black/white cultural divide exists in the USA and it is up to every man of goodwill, of whatever skin tone, to work to weaken and eventually to destroy it.
 
Its unlikely I will find this republican worthy of my vote, but if the Dem option is a true slimeball or moron ( a Democratic version of Trump!) , and the this republican is moderate enough, competent and has a sense of independence, I certainly would.
 
Felis Leo said:
Well, by appeal to their reason, and not just their base emotions. As a religious person, I am sure you would agree with me that human beings are endowed with reason. I would simply point anyone who is willing to engage me in a discussion of personal morality to people who engage in self-indulgent hedonism, and how they wind up destroying themselves. A person who takes illegal narcotics feels greater levels of immediate pleasure than the human body is normally able to feel in nature...but as anyone who has ever seen a methamphetamine addict scrounging through trash in a back-alley can tell you, the pursuit of pleasure rarely leads to long-term happiness.

Likewise, in sexual matters, people who engage in wanton sexual liberality (gay or straight) end up destroying themselves. Whether you are talking about anonymous sexual encounters leading to horrible and sometimes deadly diseases, unplanned pregnancies, increasing the likelihood of being the victim and (or perhaps even becoming the perpetrator) of sexual assault/rape, or simply to depression and a sense of crushing ennui.
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But what you are arguing is purely by appeal to utilitarianism. You're saying that in the long run the consequences catch up with you (I don't necessarily disagree with the argument, as it is true, but I don't find it entirely convincing). The hedonist might respond in one of two ways:

1. In the long run, we're all dead anyway, so why not enjoy life while I still can?
2. If I can avoid the negative consequences then it's fine. So I'll just stick to moderate amounts of weed, or I'll sterilize myself and use prophylactics.

I don't think that utilitarian arguments can overcome these objections. An appeal to a higher authority, on the contrary, posits that these actions are bad inherently and that this is what produces the negative outcomes. Your argument seems to be the inverse, that the actions are evil because of the evil outcomes. And if that's true, then if you avoid the evil outcomes, then the action is no longer evil.
 
Sweden said:
Such a black/white cultural divide exists in the USA and it is up to every man of goodwill, of whatever skin tone, to work to weaken and eventually to destroy it.
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Or, why don't we just live separately if we so clearly do not like each other?
 
Question...

" Would you vote a black gay republican ? "

No way.
How dare he claim himself to be a Republican !!! I'll bet he could strike a pose and vogue...:lamo
 
phattonez said:
Or, why don't we just live separately if we so clearly do not like each other?
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Far, far better to stop disliking each other. Friendly relations between 'black' and 'white' people are not only possible but common everywhere, sometimes even in the often 'race' obsessed USA.
 
Sweden said:
Far, far better to stop disliking each other. Friendly relations between 'black' and 'white' people are not only possible but common everywhere, sometimes even in the often 'race' obsessed USA.
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But until they are possible, why not separate to minimize violence?
 
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