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Is the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact Unconstitutional?

Is the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact Unconstitutional

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Anagram said:
We've had a few threads over the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and whether it's a good idea or not. I don't have a really strong opinion either way on that, but after looking at it in depth a bit, I do have a rather strong opinion that it would be constitutional if enough states enacted it that it goes into effect. So I thought it'd be nice to have a thread narrowed on that issue, and not whether or not it would be a good or bad thing if it was enacted.

The NPVIC is a compact that will go into effect once states with a combined 270 Electoral Votes have passed it. Each state in the compact agreed to select the electors corresponding with the candidate who won the national popular vote, rather than to who won the most votes in their state. Overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

Relevant Constitutional Text:

Article II, Section 1, Clause 2



Article II, Section 1, Clause 4
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I think it would be Constitutional also. The state legislatures determine how or what manner that state electors will be selected. There is no popular vote requirement in the Constitution. In fact it wasn't until after the civil war that all states went to the popular vote. Prior to that, many state legislatures determine who would get their electoral votes.

Those states who were part of the compact, it would mean the people in their state wouldn't be voting to to award that states electoral votes anymore. That would be determine by the popular vote by the nation as a whole.
 
The states don't have the authority to tell the electors who to vote for.
 
Cardinal said:
Based on the wording, I don't see how. It refers to the general process by which electors are selected, not how the state ultimately chooses to allocate their votes.
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In Georgia, each party submits it list of electors to the Georgia Secretary of State prior to the election. Our popular vote results determine which slate or list of electors will be casting their votes. I'm not sure if other states do the same or not, but I would think so. This is the manner our state legislature chooses its electors.

Under the compact, I would assume each party would submit its slate or list of electors to the state. Instead of a states popular vote, the state legislature would would choose the slate which won the national popular vote. The manner changes which is Constitutional as the Constitution leaves choosing of the electors up to each state legislature.
 
apdst said:
The states don't have the authority to tell the electors who to vote for.
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This how they pick the electors not telling them who to vote for. They’ll just send the Republican group if the Republican wins the popular vote and vice versa. Same as how they send the Republican group if the Republican wins the state and vice versa.
 
Anagram said:
This how they pick the electors not telling them who to vote for. They’ll just send the Republican group if the Republican wins the popular vote and vice versa. Same as how they send the Republican group if the Republican wins the state and vice versa.
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The states don't have the authority to nullify the votes of it's citizens.
 
apdst said:
The states don't have the authority to nullify the votes of it's citizens.
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A. It’s not nullifying their votes. The people’s representatives chose to enact this legislation. And they’re votes count for part of the total.

B. There’s no constitutional requirement to let people vote for electors at all. Many states at the beginning let their legislature choose the electors.
 
Perotista said:
In Georgia, each party submits it list of electors to the Georgia Secretary of State prior to the election. Our popular vote results determine which slate or list of electors will be casting their votes. I'm not sure if other states do the same or not, but I would think so. This is the manner our state legislature chooses its electors.

Under the compact, I would assume each party would submit its slate or list of electors to the state. Instead of a states popular vote, the state legislature would would choose the slate which won the national popular vote. The manner changes which is Constitutional as the Constitution leaves choosing of the electors up to each state legislature.
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Yes, that's my understanding.
 
Anagram said:
A. It’s not nullifying their votes. The people’s representatives chose to enact this legislation. And they’re votes count for part of the total.

B. There’s no constitutional requirement to let people vote for electors at all. Many states at the beginning let their legislature choose the electors.
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But, again, the state doesn't have the authority to decide who gets the electoral votes.
 
apdst said:
But, again, the state doesn't have the authority to decide who gets the electoral votes.
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Who said they did? They can select electors though. In this case, electors of the party that wins the popular vote.
 
Anagram said:
Who said they did? They can select electors though. In this case, electors of the party that wins the popular vote.
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That's what the point of passing this law is. Right?

To give the state's electoral votes to the candidate that wins the popular vote? Right?
 
apdst said:
That's what the point of passing this law is. Right?

To give the state's electoral votes to the candidate that wins the popular vote? Right?
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To choose the electors of that party. The same way it works now. They select the electors of the party that wins the state.
 
WOW! I thought this was a passing fancy with the left! This shows that you're really insecure about your chances in the future. You feel that you'll get enough new illegal immigrants to live in the main population centers where thought is fully controlled by the media, have the governors of those states give them ID, and then line them up to vote democrat...talk about a pipe dream!
 
Harshaw said:
No. The states can pick their electors by reading the spots on a cow if that's what the legislatures want.
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That is the method I use to pick what I will wear each day.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Electoral college could vote for whatever they want, technically. They don't even have to vote based on who won in their state.
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Depends on the State, there are several different rules on how they allocate them, by State.
 
itsforthekids said:
WOW! I thought this was a passing fancy with the left! This shows that you're really insecure about your chances in the future. You feel that you'll get enough new illegal immigrants to live in the main population centers where thought is fully controlled by the media, have the governors of those states give them ID, and then line them up to vote democrat...talk about a pipe dream!
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What on Earth are you babbling about, no one is suggesting any such thing, you sure you are on the correct thread?
 
Casper said:
What on Earth are you babbling about, no one is suggesting any such thing, you sure you are on the correct thread?
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You seem to have comprehension problems. That's exactly what the suggestion is. You can't win national elections anymore so try and change the rules.
 
itsforthekids said:
You seem to have comprehension problems. That's exactly what the suggestion is. You can't win national elections anymore so try and change the rules.
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Actually, no that is not what this is about.
You Guys? LOL, I am not a Dem.
 
Instead of awarding ALL electoral votes to the winner of the popular vote, why not award them proportionally like some states already do. That seems more democratic. And what if no one gets (51%) of the popular vote? What if it's split 35-35-30 ?
 
Casper said:
Actually, no that is not what this is about.
You Guys? LOL, I am not a Dem.
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I don't care what you are. It's exactly what it's about. The left knows that they don't have national appeal...the electoral map of America by county proves that. The only chance that today's left can win is by loading up on illegal voters (because they're now losing black voters as well) in heavy democratic districts.
 
itsforthekids said:
I don't care what you are. It's exactly what it's about. The left knows that they don't have national appeal...the electoral map of America by county proves that. The only chance that today's left can win is by loading up on illegal voters (because they're now losing black voters as well) in heavy democratic districts.
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Well you assumed you knew, that makes two things wrong, oh wait that is three, believe that means you're out, go back to the batting cage and work on your swing.
 
Atomic Kid said:
LOL! Tell them to go ahead and try then and see what happens. And once again it's a political compact advocating for the popular vote that uses wholly legal and Constitution means to advance it's position in hopes that the popular vote will one day replace the electoral college. Did you watch the video at all?
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Yes. I don't see where it addressed what I asked.
 
Moderate Right said:
Interesting question. Each state individually can choose themselves how they want the electors proportioned but if it is actually determined by a "treaty" of a confederation of states, are the individual states the ones actually deciding, or is the confederation imposing it's will on the states of the confederation? I wonder what the result of something like this would have been if it were in place just before the civil war?
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IIRC during this last go-around, in some states, electors are required by law to vote all of their votes (winner take all) with the majority of the vote in the state.
 
The problem I see is if states get together and say other states have to decide that have to abide by these rules with no Constitutional Amendment and no agreeing law in a given state.

Individual states that don't wish to abide by this are under no duress whatsoever to abide by it. Or am I missing something?

Examining this more closely, what happens when a state is won by a given candidate that loses the popular vote nationwide and that state turns over the electoral votes to the popular vote getter, isn't that disenfranchising the voters in that state? It seems to nullify representative voting as a means of maintaining state autonomy.

Wont this further balkanize political parties into rural and metro groups? How is that healthy for either side?

This will cause more questions than answers in my opinion.
 
My issue with this is less about the idea and more about the process in which they are going about this. If they want to change how the election is done then go through the appropriate process, this just seems like they are exploiting a loophole in order to achieve their goal. I think this will lead to more division and resentment in this country.
 
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