• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should transgenders be allowed to play competitive sports?

Should trans be allowed to play competitive sports

  • Total voters
    27
Bucky

Bucky

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
28,575
Reaction score
6,362
Location
Washington
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I think for a man that transitioned or is transitioning to a woman and wants to compete again girls/woman creates an inherent disadvantage. Biologically, men are physically different from women. I see a clear competitive advantage for the trans woman in many sports against exclusively "real women."

For a woman that transitioned or is transitioning to a man, it actually is in reverse. The real man typically has an advantage. I think the issue here is if the real man/men would be comfortable competing with someone that not living their biological "truth."

In conclusion, I feel transgenders shouldn't be allowed to play in most competitive sports, definitely not on a professional level. Those that argue that transgender should be allowed then you should also argue:

That's sports shouldn't be divided by gender which is something I do not advocate because it does not recognize the obvious biologically differences between the sexes..

Again, this is for most sports. Certain sports like bowling, pool, chess, checkers, shouldn't be divided by gender although I am unsure if these are all actual "sports."

OR

That transgender should only compete with other transgenders. This is something I might advocate as you see transgender bathroom but this creates another debate on if "trans" is actually a gender.
 
A transgender person should NOT be allowed to compete any more than someone doping. The advantage concept is fundamentally the same and is in fact hormone doping with inherent genetic cheating.
 
not for me to decide at all

its up too first and foremost the sports governing bodies (as long as they dont break the law) and secondly up to medical science professionals.
 
Bucky said:
I think for a man that transitioned or is transitioning to a woman and wants to compete again girls/woman creates an inherent disadvantage. Biologically, men are physically different from women. I see a clear competitive advantage for the trans woman in many sports against exclusively "real women."

For a woman that transitioned or is transitioning to a man, it actually is in reverse. The real man typically has an advantage. I think the issue here is if the real man/men would be comfortable competing with someone that not living their biological "truth."

In conclusion, I feel transgenders shouldn't be allowed to play in most competitive sports, definitely not on a professional level. Those that argue that transgender should be allowed then you should also argue:

That's sports shouldn't be divided by gender which is something I do not advocate because it does not recognize the obvious biologically differences between the sexes..

Again, this is for most sports. Certain sports like bowling, pool, chess, checkers, shouldn't be divided by gender although I am unsure if these are all actual "sports."

OR

That transgender should only compete with other transgenders. This is something I might advocate as you see transgender bathroom but this creates another debate on if "trans" is actually a gender.
Click to expand...

This is what you do, I have no idea why so many people cant figure it out....you do a DNA test see, with rules that are written down and ****, then when it comes to sports you divide them into two groups based upon the results looking at X and Y chromosomes.

Call the two groups what you want.

You're Welcome.
 
The more applicable question on this forum, is "Do transgenders deserve equal rights under the Constitution of the US?"
 
My only response is a slight giggle the poll is allows for "multiple choices".:)
 
There was a good conversation about this on the Joe Rogan podcast with Harris and Mahjid (not sure if spelled correctly). While it isn't fair to biological women to allow Transgendered women to compete, in most sports the results are simply just hurt feelings so no real issue for me. However, actual combat sports (Boxing, MMA, Kickboxing, etc) they should not be allowed because it would be incredibly dangerous for the biological female and potentially life threatening.
 
tecoyah said:
A transgender person should NOT be allowed to compete any more than someone doping. The advantage concept is fundamentally the same and is in fact hormone doping with inherent genetic cheating.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you on this.
We have seen a rise in records being beaten by transitioning individuals that have moved on to participate in sports of genders opposite to their original birth gender.

In some cases this kind of rise in hormones has lent to the severe injury of some of their own opponents. Even without a majority of the hormone treatments it still doesn't change what you are physically and in cases when it is a male to female transition. You are certainly going to outperform a vast majority of your opponents on the basis of biology alone.

I don't think it was Fallon Fox who did this, but there was a post op transitioning fighter who beat her opponent in the first round with almost one single punch. The hit was so hard that it almost shattered the girls orbital socket and nearly dislodged her eye.

I am going to keep a lookout for it so if I do find it again. I will post it in a follow up link.
 
AGENT J said:
not for me to decide at all

its up too first and foremost the sports governing bodies (as long as they dont break the law) and secondly up to medical science professionals.
Click to expand...

A bit contradictory there. I can't be first and foremost the governing body, if it is still subject to the law--the law is then first and foremost. Regardless, I'm not aware of any laws that might be covered here. Certainly a bit consideration is the sport itself. Sitting in a car driving a racecar, or hitting a golf ball seem like gender would be irrelevant. Individual physical sports such as tennis or wrestling seem more relevant to me.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
1.)A bit contradictory there. I can't be first and foremost the governing body, if it is still subject to the law--the law is then first and foremost.
2.) Regardless, I'm not aware of any laws that might be covered here.

3.)Certainly a bit consideration is the sport itself. Sitting in a car driving a racecar, or hitting a golf ball seem like gender would be irrelevant. Individual physical sports such as tennis or wrestling seem more relevant to me.
Click to expand...

1.) nope not at all, of course it can, same as anything else. As a business owner i can serve who ever i want as long as i dont break the law. see its me first because the law doesnt force me to serve anybody, it just says i cant break the law. it doesn't give me anybody specifically i must serve.

Just like with sports, as a coach i can pick any player I want i just cant break the law. but the law doesnt tell me i MUST pick player #345. So im first.

if that doesnt explain it maybe think of rape laws. You are free to have sex with whoever you want but you cant break the law, (rape, molest, etc). so its still your choice first. Unless of course you are claiming the law comes first and foremost with our decisions to sex? which would need some explaining and selling because i see no logic to support that.

2.) Depending on the the area equal rights and discrimination laws could easily exist that cover this

3.) again not for me to decide. if you are asking can i think of a fantasy where i wouldnt agree with, sure! but im not a medical science professional.
For example if a 6'2" 222lb man worked out all his life, got into MMA at 18 did it for 4 years still training hard and then on 4 years and one day wants to switch to female division MMA, yes i would think that is wrong. and im sure medical science would support that based on testosterone levels estrogen levels or whatever etc etc (dont know how it works)

but if some other scenario happened like a person started transitioning at 14 and has been getting treated for the last 6 years and as had everything done but full surgery i dont see an issue with that person competing <shrug> again though, that would be subject to the org and medical science.

I simply admit im not familiar enough with the ins and outs here though and i could never be pompous enough to act like my feelings on the issue should matter. Ill leave it to the orgs, medical science and law. Do you disagree and why if so why? What do you have that should trump the orgs, medical science and law?
 
tecoyah said:
A transgender person should NOT be allowed to compete any more than someone doping. The advantage concept is fundamentally the same and is in fact hormone doping with inherent genetic cheating.
Click to expand...

The LPGA Tour allows MTF to compete after two years of hormone treatment and testosterone level checks. But some sports, like weight lifting, basketball the natural male genetics give an advantage that even hormones cannot level out.

It's a tough question, I know I plan on resuming competitive, amature of course, bowling and I would not be upset if the league insisted I bowl as "male" for competitive reasons. I understand that I have an advantage, even though I have been on Estrogen and T blockers. I can still sling a 15lbs ball down the lane with a serious hook consistently. That gives me an advantage over most women, doubly so over 40.
 
If a person is born a man they should not be allowed to compete against women in any physical sports after puberty. I don't think it matters at younger ages. Most of those sports are already cross gender at young ages. The only time I have ever seen it actually become an issue is there is a fighter in MMA who was born a man and fights women. I am not ok with that.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) nope not at all, of course it can, same as anything else. As a business owner i can serve who ever i want as long as i dont break the law. see its me first because the law doesnt force me to serve anybody, it just says i cant break the law. it doesn't give me anybody specifically i must serve.

Just like with sports, as a coach i can pick any player I want i just cant break the law. but the law doesnt tell me i MUST pick player #345. So im first.

if that doesnt explain it maybe think of rape laws. You are free to have sex with whoever you want but you cant break the law, (rape, molest, etc). so its still your choice first. Unless of course you are claiming the law comes first and foremost with our decisions to sex? which would need some explaining and selling because i see no logic to support that.

2.) Depending on the the area equal rights and discrimination laws could easily exist that cover this

3.) again not for me to decide. if you are asking can i think of a fantasy where i wouldnt agree with, sure! but im not a medical science professional.
For example if a 6'2" 222lb man worked out all his life, got into MMA at 18 did it for 4 years still training hard and then on 4 years and one day wants to switch to female division MMA, yes i would think that is wrong. and im sure medical science would support that based on testosterone levels estrogen levels or whatever etc etc (dont know how it works)

but if some other scenario happened like a person started transitioning at 14 and has been getting treated for the last 6 years and as had everything done but full surgery i dont see an issue with that person competing <shrug> again though, that would be subject to the org and medical science.

I simply admit im not familiar enough with the ins and outs here though and i could never be pompous enough to act like my feelings on the issue should matter. Ill leave it to the orgs, medical science and law. Do you disagree and why if so why? What do you have that should trump the orgs, medical science and law?
Click to expand...

I suppose it depends on the qualifications of the medical scientists, who may not necessarily be physicians, but I have no issue with them having a seat at the discussion.

MMA might not be the best example. I struggled with my examples so I selected sports that didn't already discriminate--those with weight classes already discriminate already segment participants by weight class. Perhaps that is enough, I truly don't know.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I suppose it depends on the qualifications of the medical scientists, who may not necessarily be physicians, but I have no issue with them having a seat at the discussion.

MMA might not be the best example. I struggled with my examples so I selected sports that didn't already discriminate--those with weight classes already discriminate already segment participants by weight class. Perhaps that is enough, I truly don't know.
Click to expand...

I dont know either but i dont think it is, IMO (which is just guessing) i would thing testosterone and estrogen levels etc would have to be looked at for some sports, maybe even over all ability.

again with the MMA example. even if a persons levels are with in range if that person (stealing lingo from rocky here lol) can punch with with like double or triple the PSI than anybody else id say thats probably an issue and medical science would probably agree.

Its an interesting question and i agree it needs dressed i just cant see here and think i know whats best. thats silly. Im fine with what the orgs and medical science decide. and if later theres info they are getting it wrong it can be revisited and ill discuss that too.

to make something up though i think something like at least 2 years on therapy and body levels (whatever all they look at) being in range over a monitored period of time and before competing would be a good place to start.
 
Bucky said:
I think for a man that transitioned or is transitioning to a woman and wants to compete again girls/woman creates an inherent disadvantage. Biologically, men are physically different from women. I see a clear competitive advantage for the trans woman in many sports against exclusively "real women."
Click to expand...

It kind of depends on the sport, and I would be okay with some exceptions, but in general, I think it would be better for all trans people regardless of which direction they are going to play in men's leagues and or divisions.
 
MrWonka said:
It kind of depends on the sport, and I would be okay with some exceptions, but in general, I think it would be better for all trans people regardless of which direction they are going to play in men's leagues and or divisions.
Click to expand...

Still waiting for 7 transgender females to join an WNBA team and dominate for the next decade.
 
flewism said:
Still waiting for 7 transgender females to join an WNBA team and dominate for the next decade.
Click to expand...

Why would they dominate?
 
flewism said:
Still waiting for 7 transgender females to join an WNBA team and dominate for the next decade.
Click to expand...

Basketball is a sport where I think it might be able to work and would probably be a good place to start. One could argue that not many women are going to be able to go inside and snatch rebounds away from Drummond or dunk on Embiid but neither do a lot of guards and small forwards in the NBA now. I don't know that they should start by adding people born as males to the WNBA but I'd bet that there are some female born athletes that would fare pretty well in the NBA.
 
AGENT J said:
not for me to decide at all

its up too first and foremost the sports governing bodies (as long as they dont break the law) and secondly up to medical science professionals.
Click to expand...

3rd the other athletes already in the sport. Imagine Bruce Jenner competing now as (Caitlyn Jenner) the 20 something Olympic athlete that set the men's World record. That would set a record no non transgender woman could ever hope to match.

Strange, in almost everything else, I would be pro-transgender equality. The thought of for example, some transgender (ex-Mike) Tyson walking into the ring to face a current non-transgender female heavyweight boxer fills me with dread. I wouldn't ever want to watch.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
This is what you do, I have no idea why so many people cant figure it out....you do a DNA test see, with rules that are written down and ****, then when it comes to sports you divide them into two groups based upon the results looking at X and Y chromosomes.

Call the two groups what you want.

You're Welcome.
Click to expand...

And if they have both XX and XY chromosomes within their body? What then? Chimerism

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19344081

"To account for the normal female appearance of our patient, we postulate the exclusive involvement of 46,XX cells in gonad formation."

Or if they have AIS? XY chromosomes, but develop as a female.

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome

Androgen insensitivity syndrome is a condition that affects sexual development before birth and during puberty. People with this condition are genetically male, with one X chromosome and one Y chromosome in each cell. Because their bodies are unable to respond to certain male sex hormones (called androgens), they may have mostly female external sex characteristics or signs of both male and female sexual development.
Click to expand...

Or those who are intersexed?

How common is intersex? | Intersex Society of North America
 
On this, I think it should depend on a lot of factors. First and foremost, what is the sport? Is it a team sport or individual sport? Where are they in the transition? What are their normal levels compared to cisgender counterparts within their sports? What do doctors think? (Must be unbiased doctors.) Is there any chance of their being intersexed? Do we have rules for someone who is knowingly genetically intersexed when it comes to playing competitive sports?
 
roguenuke said:
And if they have both XX and XY chromosomes within their body? What then? Chimerism

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19344081

"To account for the normal female appearance of our patient, we postulate the exclusive involvement of 46,XX cells in gonad formation."

Or if they have AIS? XY chromosomes, but develop as a female.

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome



Or those who are intersexed?

How common is intersex? | Intersex Society of North America
Click to expand...

I dont have an answer for you but I do want a genetic test deciding, by best practices...... and I am not one to say that everybody has to be allowed to do everything so maybe some people dont qualify for either group. I do however want to make sure that "I feel like a woman" and "I want to be a woman" and as well "I say that I am a man, so I am" do play no part in the shunting of each individual into the correct group.....or as I said maybe a rejected pile.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I dont have an answer for you but I do want a genetic test deciding, by best practices...... and I am not one to say that everybody has to be allowed to do everything so maybe some people dont qualify for either group. I do however want to make sure that "I feel like a woman" and "I want to be a woman" and as well "I say that I am a man, so I am" do play no part in the shunting of each individual into the correct group.....or as I said maybe a rejected pile.
Click to expand...

Good thing it's not up to you then. Overall, this is ultimately going to be decided, generally fairly, by a governing body who decides the rules for any sports. There are plenty of sports that physical sex would not make much difference, particularly if there is hormone therapy being used to change someone into a particular sex. Overall, it should not be up to any layperson at all who is simply either for "full equal treatment" (in this area, that is not going to be practical, especially if someone is not going through a physical transition) or "their feelings shouldn't matter" (not your decision, and they should matter just as much as privacy of any to their DNA).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom