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Should Randa Jarrar and other Highly Offensive and Divisive University Professors Lose Their Jobs?

Should Randa Jarrar and other Highly Offensive and Divisive University Professors Lose Their Jobs?

  • Total voters
    22
Lutherf said:
Bottom line, the right to free speech, even offensive speech, must be protected. The university should address the matter in those terms.
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No one is stopping anyone from talking. Freedom of speech is not freedom from repercussions.
 
I think many alumni of Fresno State are pretty pissed off about the actions of this Moslem professor and won't be sending their yearly donations. Is this gruesome person the type that should be teaching our youth? IMO NO!
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
We are a people of laws.....if people are not found guilty of crimes then leave them alone 99% of the time.

THAT'S MY POLICY
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Were not talking about charging anyone with a crime.This is a discussion on whether or not the employers of these professors should be fired. People are fired for things all the time that has nothing to do with crime. People are fired for not showing up on time, disrespecting the boss or customers, doing a lousy job, doing something that reflects poorly on the company whether on or off duty or some other reason. In this case these professors all did something that reflects poorly on the universities and calls into question what they are doing in the classroom, if they are being impartial in their grading and so on.
 
jamesrage said:
Were not talking about charging anyone with a crime.This is a discussion on whether or not the employers of these professors should be fired. People are fired for things all the time that has nothing to do with crime. People are fired for not showing up on time, disrespecting the boss or customers, doing a lousy job, doing something that reflects poorly on the company whether on or off duty or some other reason. In this case these professors all did something that reflects poorly on the universities and calls into question what they are doing in the classroom, if they are being impartial in their grading and so on.
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And I am telling you that we should not be ruining people absent a conviction for a major crime as a matter of policy. Yes I know that Employers can fire at will now in America except for our genetic fetish but there has to be some self control, there has to be some tolerance for employees running around with thoughts in their heads that the employers dont approve of.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
And I am telling you that we should not be ruining people absent a conviction for a major crime as a matter of policy. Yes I know that Employers can fire at will now in America except for our genetic fetish but there has to be some self control, there has to be some tolerance for employees running around with thoughts in their heads that the employers dont approve of.
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You are arguing that no one should be fired from their job unless there is a criminal conviction? You do realize that is absurd?
 
I can remember Angela Davis, communist activist and close relationship with the radical Black Panthers party and who taught at the Universe of California. I also remember the democratic party defending her and her social agenda.
 
Phys251 said:
Don't even try to suggest that Cheney is anything other than Far-Right if you want to establish any credibility among reasonable people.
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Cheney isn't exactly vocal against homosexuality. Is acceptance of homosexuality "far-right"?

Once they're of legal age, that's not your decision.
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Respect for elders, especially parents, doesn't end once you reach "legal age", especially if I'm paying the tuition.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Have you heard my argument that the University has failed?

I have some sympathy for your argument.
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I've not heard your argument, but I essentially have nothing but disdain for "education" in this country.
 
Who cares what this fat ugly bitch thinks? I don't think she should lose her position. Half of her department probably feel the same way. Just be honest that if someone that was right leaning and saying things like "I get up in the morning due to the hatred of the woman" or "Let's buy guns and stop being gentle" they would be immediately let go.
 
Felis Leo said:
Just recently, Professor Randa Jarrar from the California State University of Fresno started a furor by posting a series of rather inflammatory tweets celebrating the death of the late First Lady Barbara Bush. And she has received a fair amount of backlash for it. I just want to disclose the fact that I have actually made the acquaintance of Mrs. Jarrar, and, personally, I could not stand her and found her a repellant loudmouth at that time.

Now, in the past few years, there have been calls mostly from the Political Left but also from the Political Right (starting in recent memory with Ward Churchill) for Professors who have made statements or who hold social/political views that people find grossly offensive to lose their jobs. Now, if Randa Jarrar worked for a private company (ANY private company), there would most likely be calls on all sides for her being fired.

So my question to the Forum is whether Randa Jarrar specifically and professors in general should be subject to firing if the public finds them grossly offensive? If yes, why? And if you say no, would you say that this principle stands no matter how offensive you personally find it?

And before anyone says anything, this is a normative discussion, not a positive one. Please no one say "Well, it's the University's right to keep or fire an offensive professor." We all know that it is a University's right to do so (though tenured professors can only be fired for cause or exigent circumstances). I want to know whether any given University should fire a professor for being deeply offensive to many or even the majority of people?
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In the long run, unless university is insanely stupid, the wench will be terminated. Financial donations are already in serious jeopardy. Enrollments will soon follow.
 
phattonez said:
I've not heard your argument, but I essentially have nothing but disdain for "education" in this country.
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Neither your position nor your scare quotes surprise me in the slightest.
 
I think she's a ****, but I don't think she or anyone else should be fired over such remarks.
 
They should if they feel that it's deserving of firing, but I don't feel that people should be fired for merely having an opinion (no matter how gross she is). That being said, make public her tweets, her statements and her true beliefs public and let people decide if they want her influence on them.

IMO, she is an unhappy soul, mentally ill and lonely...seeking attention. She is a vile human being.
 
Felis Leo said:
Just recently, Professor Randa Jarrar from the California State University of Fresno started a furor by posting a series of rather inflammatory tweets celebrating the death of the late First Lady Barbara Bush. And she has received a fair amount of backlash for it. I just want to disclose the fact that I have actually made the acquaintance of Mrs. Jarrar, and, personally, I could not stand her and found her a repellant loudmouth at that time.

Now, in the past few years, there have been calls mostly from the Political Left but also from the Political Right (starting in recent memory with Ward Churchill) for Professors who have made statements or who hold social/political views that people find grossly offensive to lose their jobs. Now, if Randa Jarrar worked for a private company (ANY private company), there would most likely be calls on all sides for her being fired.

So my question to the Forum is whether Randa Jarrar specifically and professors in general should be subject to firing if the public finds them grossly offensive? If yes, why? And if you say no, would you say that this principle stands no matter how offensive you personally find it?

And before anyone says anything, this is a normative discussion, not a positive one. Please no one say "Well, it's the University's right to keep or fire an offensive professor." We all know that it is a University's right to do so (though tenured professors can only be fired for cause or exigent circumstances). I want to know whether any given University should fire a professor for being deeply offensive to many or even the majority of people?
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IMO if you celebrate the death of a First Lady, that is NOT a political statement. That is just immoral behavior. So no you shouldn't lose your job for political views, you should lose your job for immoral behavior which is what this was.
 
Being offensive isn't a crime nor should she be fired over just being offensive, however I did hear her call for bombings and that is a crime and she should be long gone.
 
Felis Leo said:
So my question to the Forum is whether Randa Jarrar specifically and professors, in general, should be subject to firing if the public finds them grossly offensive?
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Donald Trump is grossly offensive to the majority of Americans. Can we fire him? His job is to be a leader, a role model, and to set an example that casts Americans in a good light. He's clearly failing that badly.

There's no way for this to be anything other than a case by case decision. If they are speaking as a representative of the college that's worse. If they're using their position as a professor to increase the weight of their message that's worse. I think we should continue to have a high bar for this sort of thing, but ultimately if the professor's public persona is making the college look bad, and hurting enrollment, hurting their funding from their alumni then it's there call.

But in this day and age where we have a disgusting degenerate in the white house, I don't see how anybody on the right can justify attacking the left for offensive language.
 
sangha said:
And it shows
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I've been in education in this country for decades. I've learned far more from my own independent reading than from my classes.
 
Felis Leo said:
So my question to the Forum is whether Randa Jarrar specifically and professors in general should be subject to firing if the public finds them grossly offensive? If yes, why? And if you say no, would you say that this principle stands no matter how offensive you personally find it?
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Absolutely not.
The faculty and/or university may object to the damage to their brand that offering tenure to a mouth breathing imbecile causes and fire her, but that's it.
On their part, the public, media, concerned parents, students, privat/state/federal financial contributors, politicians, etc are allowed to make all the noise they want.
But as far as terminating employment, it's none of their business. They only get to vote with their wallets, in order to let fall what cannot stand.

Even if absolutely everybody is too stupid to do anything about mouth breathing imbeciles in higher education, we are supposed to suffer the consequences and learn from them.
But we do not lightly touch the academic freedoms we paid so dearly to develop. Those freedoms are written in the blood of martyrs, and we should at the very least offer them the respect of serious consideration before we chuck them out the nearest window.
 
digsbe said:
I think she's a ****, but I don't think she or anyone else should be fired over such remarks.
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Totally up to the university, however they are insanely stupid if they do not fire her.
 
Lutherf said:
Bottom line, the right to free speech, even offensive speech, must be protected. The university should address the matter in those terms.
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Free speech with no inherent or constructive value is another matter entirely.
Even if Babs was a racist, even if GHWB was something of a war criminal, even if every single thing this prof had said could be backed up in spades, what good does it do anyone when the day of their death finds them not only long since banished from power but with all of their policies largely repudiated by society.

Justice meted out its fate to them to the extent which it could at the time, and now in the days of true despotic tyranny, the professor picks the low hanging fruit. This is the work of a fool. Indeed, one of the last utterances Babs ever made was that the dynastic rule of her family must by needs long since end, and her husband has not hesitated to condemn what rules over us now. Barbara Bush honored both her granddaughters by saying that they represent the future of politics as independents.
So in the end, instead of acknowledging the words of the chastened, he harps on past misdeeds.

The professor should be free to keep her job but she has sold her merit for an ignorant angry outburst on social media.
 
Felis Leo said:
Just recently, Professor Randa Jarrar from the California State University of Fresno started a furor by posting a series of rather inflammatory tweets celebrating the death of the late First Lady Barbara Bush. And she has received a fair amount of backlash for it. I just want to disclose the fact that I have actually made the acquaintance of Mrs. Jarrar, and, personally, I could not stand her and found her a repellant loudmouth at that time.

Now, in the past few years, there have been calls mostly from the Political Left but also from the Political Right (starting in recent memory with Ward Churchill) for Professors who have made statements or who hold social/political views that people find grossly offensive to lose their jobs. Now, if Randa Jarrar worked for a private company (ANY private company), there would most likely be calls on all sides for her being fired.

So my question to the Forum is whether Randa Jarrar specifically and professors in general should be subject to firing if the public finds them grossly offensive? If yes, why? And if you say no, would you say that this principle stands no matter how offensive you personally find it?

And before anyone says anything, this is a normative discussion, not a positive one. Please no one say "Well, it's the University's right to keep or fire an offensive professor." We all know that it is a University's right to do so (though tenured professors can only be fired for cause or exigent circumstances). I want to know whether any given University should fire a professor for being deeply offensive to many or even the majority of people?
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This isn't a question.

No.

Because 1st Amendment.
 
ajn678 said:
Who cares what this fat ugly bitch thinks? I don't think she should lose her position. Half of her department probably feel the same way. Just be honest that if someone that was right leaning and saying things like "I get up in the morning due to the hatred of the woman" or "Let's buy guns and stop being gentle" they would be immediately let go.
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Hmmm...really? I'll tell that to my colleague two doors down, who makes statements along those lines pretty regularly. He's been a professor 27 years. Nearing retirement.
 
I was a tenured college professor. If I had called Barack Obama a chimp I would have been fired. There is a double standard on college campuses where the 1st Amendment is concerned.
 
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