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What is the solution to mass shootings in the United States?

goldkam said:
Firstly I would like to clarify what I mean by the word 'control'. Control could include but is not limited to the following...implementing legislation through reducing gun ownership, restricting certain guns, implementing strict rulings pertaining to containment of guns or limiting the types of guns that are legally allowed. Thus to further my point. I never proposed that guns could be completely removed from society, rather they can be controlled or regulated if you like in society.
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But that's the point. If you can't remove millions of guns from society then you have millions of guns in society. Therefore, gun control legislation won't work. The only way you can make it work is to go door to door and take as many guns away as possible, which ain't never gonna happin. The reason these other countries don't have much gun violence is because they don't have millions of guns in circulation.
 
OpportunityCost said:
1. The only ones not covered currently are family transfers.
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1- then include them. And make sure the checks are thorough and designed to spot what we are looking for and not just perfunctory and going through the motions.

2. Way too much political bull**** in the way of deciding what is "military".
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I would bet money the average person knows what this means and the games played by the NRA and its stooges are just that - game played with words and definitions designed to deny the obvious.

3. Unconstitutional, already ruled.
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When and where was this ruling and what did it say?

4. Well the liberals control Hollywood, so why haven't you?
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Corporations control Hollywood and the last time I looked - all they care about is profit and more profit and if that can be done through glorification of violence - that is what they deliver.

5. Agreed.
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great

6. Pretty invasive, cultural differences make this one nearly impossible.
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Then we have to change the culture.

7. Unconstitutional.
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why?

8. Agreed.
9. Agreed.
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great.

10. Disagree, better avenues to follow up on individuals they think present a threat would be in order, though.
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We first need the correct number of trained professionals who can actually do the job. And right now, they cannot because there simply is not enough of them. Some school of 500 to 800 kids do not even have a full time social worker or psychologist in that school. The school I taught in had over 1200 kids without a full time position for either a social worker or psychologist.

11. Agree
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great. Glad we agree on some things on my list. That is progress.
 
Acadia said:
He's just a broken human being:roll:
I wanted to reach into the tv and flick that woman's forehead. Hard.
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Who said that?
 
Josie said:
Who said that?
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His pubic defender who was rubbing his back and soothing him while he made his first appearance before a judge. Ugh.
How painful for the families of victims to see.
 
Acadia said:
His pubic defender who was rubbing his back and soothing him while he made his first appearance before a judge. Ugh.
How painful for the families of victims to see.
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:censored
 
haymarket said:
1- then include them. And make sure the checks are thorough and designed to spot what we are looking for and not just perfunctory and going through the motions.


I would bet money the average person knows what this means and the games played by the NRA and its stooges are just that - game played with words and definitions designed to deny the obvious.


When and where was this ruling and what did it say?


Corporations control Hollywood and the last time I looked - all they care about is profit and more profit and if that can be done through glorification of violence - that is what they deliver.


great


Then we have to change the culture.


why?



great.


We first need the correct number of trained professionals who can actually do the job. And right now, they cannot because there simply is not enough of them. Some school of 500 to 800 kids do not even have a full time social worker or psychologist in that school. The school I taught in had over 1200 kids without a full time position for either a social worker or psychologist.



great. Glad we agree on some things on my list. That is progress.
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Its sad how misinformed you are about "military" designations, it is and always has been controlled by legislative process and not actual military designations. Your NRA stooge comment is just wrongheaded. They don't make those designations at all.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Its sad how misinformed you are about "military" designations, it is and always has been controlled by legislative process and not actual military designations. Your NRA stooge comment is just wrongheaded. They don't make those designations at all.
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And since it is a legislative process, our legislators are duly elected representatives of the American people. And I strongly suspect that the American public knows darn well what they think a military weapon is and could identify one on sight.

And I suspect you know that they could do it even if you might disagree wit their decisions or find fault with why they pick something.

In these discussions in the past, pro NRA types like to say its gun haters being scared by how a gun looks. If it looks scary and not like an older hunting rifle, then they don't like it. I think they have a point. Yes, lots of people are scared by the way a gun looks. And that is their right to do just that. And it is their right to have their opinion enacted into law if that is the will of the people.
 
haymarket said:
And since it is a legislative process, our legislators are duly elected representatives of the American people. And I strongly suspect that the American public knows darn well what they think a military weapon is and could identify one on sight.

And I suspect you know that they could do it even if you might disagree wit their decisions or find fault with why they pick something.

In these discussions in the past, pro NRA types like to say its gun haters being scared by how a gun looks. If it looks scary and not like an older hunting rifle, then they don't like it. I think they have a point. Yes, lots of people are scared by the way a gun looks. And that is their right to do just that. And it is their right to have their opinion enacted into law if that is the will of the people.
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So many assumptions so many opportunities to be so very wrong.

How scary a gun looks doesn't represent how deadly it is. Opinion shouldn't enter into law at the expense of the rights of other citizens. We need a better process by which those showing signs of asocial behavior and mental stability can get help they need and possibly have due process to remove their rights.

Banning a few "assault weapons" isn't going to do anything until the next time it happens when more bans can be asked for.
 
OpportunityCost said:
So many assumptions so many opportunities to be so very wrong.

How scary a gun looks doesn't represent how deadly it is. Opinion shouldn't enter into law at the expense of the rights of other citizens. We need a better process by which those showing signs of asocial behavior and mental stability can get help they need and possibly have due process to remove their rights.

Banning a few "assault weapons" isn't going to do anything until the next time it happens when more bans can be asked for.
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Actually I believe the members of a society have a perfect right to make those decisions for themselves and collectively as a nation. If they do not like the looks of a weapon - that is their opinion and their right to make the judgment.

I agree that they cannot take away other rights because of that opinion. ButI also strongly suspect that what you see asa person rights with firearms is very very different that what I and others see as a persons rights with firearms.

Types of guns can be banned for any reason society wants to ban them as long as the basic right to keep and bear arms can still be exercised.
 
I think the found fathers of the US really screwed up when they drafted the 2nd amendment. They shouldve just said only hunting rifles are allowed, with a limited magazine of bullets. No handguns, no machine-guns (yes I know, they hadnt been invented back then yet), and no large calibres (only enough to take down a bear, moose or deer).

But thats all hindsight now
 
haymarket said:
Actually I believe the members of a society have a perfect right to make those decisions for themselves and collectively as a nation. If they do not like the looks of a weapon - that is their opinion and their right to make the judgment.

I agree that they cannot take away other rights because of that opinion. ButI also strongly suspect that what you see asa person rights with firearms is very very different that what I and others see as a persons rights with firearms.

Types of guns can be banned for any reason society wants to ban them as long as the basic right to keep and bear arms can still be exercised.
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That's the difference between you and I, I still believe in the concept of a Republic, you believe laws are something that just get in the way.
 
OpportunityCost said:
That's the difference between you and I, I still believe in the concept of a Republic, you believe laws are something that just get in the way.
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Actually I believe in lots of things including our nation, its people, the Constitution and lots of other things like apple pie and baseball and Santa Claus and vacations at the shore and early retirement.

Not so much your idea of laws getting in the way.
 
haymarket said:
Actually I believe in lots of things including our nation, its people, the Constitution and lots of other things like apple pie and baseball and Santa Claus and vacations at the shore and early retirement.

Not so much your idea of laws getting in the way.
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Then you need to quit acting as though you believe that.
 
Manc Skipper said:
America already locks up more of its people than any other developed country.
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We, much like Australia, were populated by the incorrigible from your side of the pond. It's in our genes to some extent.
 
The sheriff in Butler County Ohio today launched free gun classes to teachers and school personnel. His first class will be this week with 25 attending. He also put on in his Facebook page the importance of changing how schools do fire drills. He says there can no long be access to set the alarm off in the hallways like the murderer Cruz did as he fears this will be repeated again allowing a shooter to kill many in a group in a matter of minutes. Some other type of alarm system will have to be put into place.

He also stated in his Facebook announcement that schools should consider hiring retired Vets and police officers in pairs for each building on the campus. That makes a lot of sense to me as they are trained not in just weaponry but also a keen sense what is happening around them.

The sheriff of Butler county knows all about school shootings as he went through one not too long ago.

All these are good ideas but until we start dealing with the mental health problem in our society it will be for not.

1. We need to return back to the day where doctors when faced with a patient to be a threat to himself and to society to be institutionalized where they can undergo the treatment they need while removing the risk to society. These outreach community programs that replaced institutionalization have not worked.

2. There are too many loopholes and gaps in background checks where people who have no business purchasing guns manage to get them.

3. And anything resulting in new legislation should not violate the 2nd Amendment rights of law abiding, of sound mind citizens from purchasing firearms.
 
Desert Storm said:
All I know is if I were a school teacher in the US right now, I'd be packing heat.

Laws be damned
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Desert Storm when I was growing up in a suburb of Columbus Ohio during the 60's, we didn't feel a need to lock our doors in the middle of the night. In the summertime we didn't have air conditioning and slept quite well through the night with the front door, back door, and all the windows opened. Everyone felt safe doing so because there were no threats. It was a loving community. Everyone looked out for each other. Kids played for hours outside without parents worry about their safety. We would play hide and seek, hopscotch, jump rope, ride bikes, play catch, shoot hoops but the closer it got to dark the closer we played at home. And there were no fat kids. True story. We only watched a limited amount of TV and snacks were rare. Pop even more rare, maybe once a week. Foods were not inundated with sugar. Foods were more wholesome. People overall were more physically healthy.

The family unit was strong. Divorce was rare. Everything I just described has been turned upside down and with it has brought mayhem. Mental illness, anger, rage, lack of respect for life.....and now society pays......
 
vesper said:
And there were no fat kids. True story
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My grandfather said the same. When he moved to Toronto in the 1940's there were virtually no fat people.
Certainly nowhere near the amount there is today.

Supposedly this is the reason, scientists messed with the wheat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Davis_(cardiologist)

Now, the genetically modified wheat is very difficult for our stomachs to digest, and this leads to drastic weight gain

51fw5p3jyCL._SX330_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 
Desert Storm said:
My grandfather said the same. When he moved to Toronto in the 1940's there were virtually no fat people.
Certainly nowhere near the amount there is today.

Supposedly this is the reason, scientists messed with the wheat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Davis_(cardiologist)

Now, the genetically modified wheat is very difficult for our stomachs to digest, and this leads to drastic weight gain

51fw5p3jyCL._SX330_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
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I have no doubt the screwing around with food is a culprit in overweight people today but that is just one slight faction in a whole array of social changes that have changed since the 60's that have piled up and created the monsters our society is now having to deal with.
 
Desert Storm said:
All I know is if I were a school teacher in the US right now, I'd be packing heat.

Laws be damned
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No, no you wouldn't.

You would be "packing" your bags.

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Desert Storm said:
Nah, thats what weak Lefties would do
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Only Lefties get fired for violating district and state policy by bringing in firearms to the school, huh? Good to know.


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Desert Storm said:
You got easy talking in England where almost nobody owns guns.

Come up to North-America sometime, sweetiepie
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Almost nobody owns guns because we have strong gun control laws.
 
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