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What is the solution to mass shootings in the United States?

OldFatGuy said:
In 1954, when Ike was the president, the Republican Party attempted to pass a bill exempting federal funds for care of the mentally ill and emotionally disturbed. Ike fought that bill and it never left committee. Over the next 2 decades, federal revenue sharing for care of inpatient mentally ill and the emotionally disturbed was sliced from the Federal budget as a direct cost, shifted to the Medicaid program, administered by the States. Meaning a patient first had to qualify for Medicaid before being institutionalized in most states. In most states today, only those deemed criminally insane are incarcerated in state owned institutions, those institutions are prisons, not asylums.

The ACLU cases were not for releasing the mentally ill or emotionally disturbed from institutions. They were for the Constitutional requirement for legal representation of adults involuntarily incarcerated in asylums without law representation, resulting from court proceedings. It was the decisions of Attorney Generals in most states and most cases not to proceed with court adjudications for those patients who were released because they had no lawful representation when they were judged insane by courts and incarcerated, after those patients were released from institutions after a Supreme Court decision that representation was required prior to commitment.

It was Governor Nelson Rockefeller of New York who led the charge to remove the State of NY from owning and operating public institutions for long term care of the mentally ill and emotionally disturbed. His motivations were twofold, humane care for the mentally ill and emotionally disturbed because the state owned and operated facilities were hell holes. Look up Willowbrook. And as a fiscal conservative he wanted the state not to be burdened by the costs. He set the precedence and other governors followed in his footsteps.

You can put that myth to rest.
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I don't recall Rockefeller Republicans as being fiscal conservatives. Rather they were the last of the moderate/liberal Republicans.
 
Kreton said:
What is the cause of this massive swing in mental health problems?
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404 people have died during mass shootings since Columbine. This does not suggest a massive upswing, but it sure does garner sensationalist headlines for the media.

Does this bit of data leave you feeling like a mark in a con job?

Yes, it is sad, even horrifying when innocent people suffer from maniacs and evil doers. Emotionally worse when the victims are children. Yet perspective is skewed thanks to the media coverage, and the type of coverage encourages copy cats. Stopping this outlandish media coverage won't stop this from occurring, but it may diminish its frequency.

Do you really want to help stop these events from occurring? Then let the media hear your voice of criticism against their sensationalist coverage of these events. Hit them all not only with your voice, but with your pocket, and ask other Americans to join you in whatever steps you take. Make your voice heard.

It won't take much effort. Add an ad blocker to your browser software, and speak out to other Americans wherever and whenever to join you. So what if you can't get your news from a site that refuses to let you in with an ad blocker. In the end, if you let them know why you use an ad blocker, they will get the message, from you and millions of other target customers. So will their advertisers. This is the only way to see if I am correct.
 
danielpalos said:
Inequality.
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Horse manure. Most of these shooters come from affluence. Almost all are white boys from well heeled and moneyed families. The Las Vegas shooter was a 1%er.
 
apdst said:
For a lot of convicts prison is a right of passage. Start executing them, and it want be as inviting.
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Not if it is a life sentence without parole. Consecutive sentences for each person they harm. Solitary with such a sentence is like being buried alive. Put them in solitary with no hope of getting out. Incarcerate enough of them and it leaves no room for claims of cruel and unusual punishment.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Not if it is a life sentence without parole. Consecutive sentences for each person they harm. Solitary with such a sentence is like being buried alive. Put them in solitary with no hope of getting out. Incarcerate enough of them and it leaves no room for claims of cruel and unusual punishment.
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America already locks up more of its people than any other developed country.
 
Risky Thicket said:
In Florida there is a law called the Baker Act. As I understand the law people who are determined to be a danger to themselves or others can - per a judge's order - be detained and housed (against their will) until such time that they are evaluated and determined not to be a danger. Every state, I think, has a similar law. It doesn't sound to me as if that option was used in the Florida. Why? Why not? Apparently there were beaucoup red flags concerning this kid.

My opinion is that America does not take mental health seriously enough to provide it and properly fund access to it. Even then that is only one facet. I don't believe that that alone is the solution.
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I dont know, but if anything, the Baker Act has been abused down there.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
 
OldFatGuy said:
Not if it is a life sentence without parole. Consecutive sentences for each person they harm. Solitary with such a sentence is like being buried alive. Put them in solitary with no hope of getting out. Incarcerate enough of them and it leaves no room for claims of cruel and unusual punishment.
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Even then. Those dudes don't want to die. That's why they're always looking to make a deal to avoid the death penalty.

And just to be clear, I'm talking about all murderers, not just the Nicholas Cruzes of the world.
 
Manc Skipper said:
America already locks up more of its people than any other developed country.
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We have 350,000,000 people in The United States. Of course we have more people in prison.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Horse manure. Most of these shooters come from affluence. Almost all are white boys from well heeled and moneyed families. The Las Vegas shooter was a 1%er.
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Loughner and Cruz didn't come from affluence.
 
apdst said:
Post your stats, if you know it's bull****.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States
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Those are not stats backing up anything you said. They are just stats on shootings from wiki. You made a claim, now back it up...

apdst said:
In the 19th Century, when more people were armed and the death penalty was used more often, the murder rate was significantly lower.
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Your link says nothing of the sort. Mine however says the exact and polar opposite as I said.

1. The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment.

2. Sending an individual convicted of a crime to prison isn’t a very effective way to deter crime.

3. Police deter crime by increasing the perception that criminals will be caught and punished.

4. Increasing the severity of punishment does little to deter crime.

And the final nail please!

5. There is no proof that the death penalty deters criminals. - https://nij.gov/five-things/pages/deterrence.aspx

Next time check your facts before posting baseless nonsense.
 
Unless you do what Australia did, which was confiscate every gun in the country, I don't think there's much you can do
 
Desert Storm said:
Unless you do what Australia did, which was confiscate every gun in the country, I don't think there's much you can do
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That wouldn't work here. We can't even keep drugs out of maximum security prisons.
 
Manc Skipper said:
You lock up more of your people than China.
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China executes people for tax evasion, arson and rape, too. If we executed people like China, our prison population would plummet, along our crime rate.
 
apdst said:
China executes people for tax evasion, arson and rape, too. If we executed people like China, our prison population would plummet, along our crime rate.
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Locking people into overcrowded for-profit jails isnt a solution.

Executing people is no deterrent.
 
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Whenever I read about the latest atrocity I reminded of what Carl Jung said about modern society; with the demise of religious belief and the rise of mass culture a person can feel they have no place or value. For a few people this alienation is extreme. He also pointed a way to lead an "authentic" life but few people are brave enough to follow that path.
 
Manc Skipper said:
America already locks up more of its people than any other developed country.
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OMG! Let's release all mass murderers and serial killers immediately!

Cry somewhere else. Criminals get no compassion or empathy from me.
 
apdst said:
Even then. Those dudes don't want to die. That's why they're always looking to make a deal to avoid the death penalty.

And just to be clear, I'm talking about all murderers, not just the Nicholas Cruzes of the world.
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Let them all rot in prison.
 
washunut said:
I don't recall Rockefeller Republicans as being fiscal conservatives. Rather they were the last of the moderate/liberal Republicans.
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Nelson was only liberal when it came time to raise taxes. He wasn't a fervent anti communist because he had faith in Americans, and he was pro-civil rights, and he died happy. :)
 
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