• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Merit-Based Immigration

Merit-Based Immigration

  • Sound Principle

    Votes: 38 74.5%
  • Unsound Principle

    Votes: 4 7.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 9 17.6%

  • Total voters
    51
Seriously, is that likely? I also think that one of the criteria for coming here needs to be the ability to melt into the melting pot. No hypenated Americans need apply.

That all would be from there? No, but I think that cultural considerations need to be considered, as someone from Pakistan isn't going to assimilate as easily as someone from England would.
 
That all would be from there? No, but I think that cultural considerations need to be considered, as someone from Pakistan isn't going to assimilate as easily as someone from England would.

You can't generalize, I know people from the Middle East who have moved here and fit in just fine. It has to be on a case-by-case basis.
 
You can't generalize, I know people from the Middle East who have moved here and fit in just fine. It has to be on a case-by-case basis.

If they speak English and are Christian, sure. If they speak Urdu and are Muslim, not so much.
 
If they speak English and are Christian, sure. If they speak Urdu and are Muslim, not so much.

Since speaking English is a requirement for becoming a citizen, that's irrelevant. And the people I know are Muslim, although certainly not fundamentalist, and they fit in just fine. I'd much rather get rid of all religion and improve the society dramatically that way.
 
Since speaking English is a requirement for becoming a citizen, that's irrelevant.

Come on, you and I both know that the English requirement is just a formality. I'm talking about fluent English speaking.

And the people I know are Muslim, although certainly not fundamentalist, and they fit in just fine.

Tell that to Sweden and Germany.
 
Come on, you and I both know that the English requirement is just a formality. I'm talking about fluent English speaking.

People can learn. So long as they can communicate, I'm fine with it.

Tell that to Sweden and Germany.

What, two liberal s***holes that threw open the gates to widespread immigration, especially to fundamentalists, and now have to set up safe spaces so women don't get raped? That's what happens when you're liberal.
 
We have no shortage of such citizens now, except plenty dont want to work. They choose welfare and other public assistance.

IMO you dont import unskilled people just because they are willing to work. It's a major failure of our socio-economic state, we should be focused on figuring out how to motivate these people to work, to develop a work ethic. We have the people. We just cant get them to contribute.

So therefore bringing in someone willing to work is detrimental to US interests?
 
People can learn. So long as they can communicate, I'm fine with it.

You take them in your neighborhood then.

What, two liberal s***holes that threw open the gates to widespread immigration, especially to fundamentalists, and now have to set up safe spaces so women don't get raped? That's what happens when you're liberal.

That's what happens when you take in large Muslim populations. We're seeing the same issues in Minnesota.

Muslim ‘refugees’ threaten Minnesota community with rape
 
So therefore bringing in someone willing to work is detrimental to US interests?

When we have a large population of Americans who aren't working? Yes.
 
Merit-Based Immigration

=================

Merit-Based Immigration means any US installed brutal, vicious right wing dictator that has served the USA's purpose of making his country a place where US business interests are safe from harm and competition, but who has now been turfed out can immigrate into the USA and bring all the vast wealth he has stolen from his country.
 
You take them in your neighborhood then.

Fine by me. In fact, one of those people I was talking about lives in my neighborhood.

That's what happens when you take in large Muslim populations. We're seeing the same issues in Minnesota.

Dearborn has always been heavily Muslim, but this is what happens when you let people in that haven't been properly vetted, not just because they're Muslim. The overwhelming majority of Muslims in the U.S. have had their religious beliefs neutered by secular society, just like Christians have. When you take away the moderating influence of secular society, you get Christian militias like you have in parts of Africa, who murder anyone who falls outside of their religion. Religion is a mind killer.
 
How would we be worse off in such a scenario?

Because those people aren't going to pick your food, gut your poultry, fish and beef, roof your house, mow your lawn, pour concrete, haul your garbage or any other menial, physical, dirty task that get done millions of time a day in this country. Now that is not to say there are not white folk doing them at all, but the vast majority of those jobs are held by legal immigrants. Because they will do the work and they will do it for less money. And businesses want to pay less money for labor. However if you are looking for those to take good paying tech, medical and engineering jobs, bring them on. They'll do those for less money too.
 
Oh here we go, you can come because you passed the merit test, so now bring your family that hasn’t passed it, good thinking there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes.

If we want to attract top merit-based talent, we need to be able to keep them.
 
Respectfully disagree. This is not about two classes of citizens it is about a rational immigration policy for America. Immigration is a choice. If you want to come here to create a better life and you can contribute here,great.

I think we we need to re- calibrate our thoughts on immigration to reflect 21st century realities. We no longer need millions of unskilled workers to build our railroad tracks, dig our sewers etc as we did when my grandparents were allowed in.

We already have too much unskilled labor in the U.S. just look at our participation rates. We do want the best and the brightest coming here. As Obama was fond of saying about the other party, it is now democrats who are on the wrong side of history.
Thank you!

And I'll respectfully reply! :thumbs:

I do very much see this as creating two classes of citizens. The way we treat a visitor or temporary/permanent resident, is different than the way we treat a citizen. Your desire to limit one's rights, strikes me as more appropriate for non-citizens.

Also, keep in mind I'm all for a primarily merit-based system, similar to Canada. If we want to attract talented individuals for our citizents, we surely can't make them second-class citizens. Otherwise, cut them a temporary work visa.

(work visas are something I'm generally against, unless the situation is dire - I'd rather let natural domestic supply & demand fill those spots)
 
Because those people aren't going to pick your food, gut your poultry, fish and beef, roof your house, mow your lawn, pour concrete, haul your garbage or any other menial, physical, dirty task that get done millions of time a day in this country. Now that is not to say there are not white folk doing them at all, but the vast majority of those jobs are held by legal immigrants. Because they will do the work and they will do it for less money. And businesses want to pay less money for labor. However if you are looking for those to take good paying tech, medical and engineering jobs, bring them on. They'll do those for less money too.

Legal immigrants aren't going to want to do some of that work. Too bad, so sad. It's just the criminal illegal immigrants who are willing. I guess we'll have to change our paradigm, huh? But some of that work is willingly done by legal citizens all the time. Every single roofer that re-roofed my house last year was a citizen. Every week, my trash gets hauled away by citizens. The last time I had a concrete driveway poured, those were all citizens too. Amazing how that works.
 
Yes, we want to import as many Doctors and Scientists as possible. Pass on sociologists though.

Great. Let's leave those millennials who take on debt that rivals a mortgage to compete with immigrants on visas who accept huge cuts in pay.

What a great way for the baby boomers to **** over their children.
 
We have no shortage of such citizens now, except plenty dont want to work. They choose welfare and other public assistance.

IMO you dont import unskilled people just because they are willing to work. It's a major failure of our socio-economic state, we should be focused on figuring out how to motivate these people to work, to develop a work ethic. We have the people. We just cant get them to contribute.

95% of Americans use caffeine on a regular basis. Caffeine is a stimulant, we take it in the mornings so we can get to work. We have no guarantee of sick days, family leave, vacation pay:

Americans work more than anyone in the industrialized world.

More than the English, more than the French, way more than the Germans or Norwegians. Even, recently, more than the Japanese.

And Americans take less vacation, work longer days, and retire later, too.

Americans Work More Than Anyone - ABC News
 
Legal immigrants aren't going to want to do some of that work. Too bad, so sad. It's just the criminal illegal immigrants who are willing. I guess we'll have to change our paradigm, huh? But some of that work is willingly done by legal citizens all the time. Every single roofer that re-roofed my house last year was a citizen. Every week, my trash gets hauled away by citizens. The last time I had a concrete driveway poured, those were all citizens too. Amazing how that works.

Yes, as I said there are citizens doing that work. but many of those citizens are immigrants. Legal immigrants. It sort of depends on where you are. In the rural GA county where I live, for example, almost all of the local companies that do landscaping, land clearing, septic work, moving mobile homes and other hard dirty work, are local residents and white. Move one county over to the coast and it's a different story. I don't know who is legal and who is not.
You mentioned roofers. 20 years ago in Nor Cal, roofers were paid about $100 a square. You know what they are paid now?
About $100 a square. You want to know why? Because legal and illegal labor reduced the costs that contractors are will to pay.
Make e-verify the law, nationwide, no exceptions. Penalties for employers who violate it. Jail time for multiple violations.
Problem solved, 90%.
 
Which is irrelevant because a "merit" based immigration scheme that defines "merit" based on country of origin would be racist.

You liberals have no idea what race is, do you?
 
Yes, as I said there are citizens doing that work. but many of those citizens are immigrants. Legal immigrants. It sort of depends on where you are. In the rural GA county where I live, for example, almost all of the local companies that do landscaping, land clearing, septic work, moving mobile homes and other hard dirty work, are local residents and white. Move one county over to the coast and it's a different story. I don't know who is legal and who is not.
You mentioned roofers. 20 years ago in Nor Cal, roofers were paid about $100 a square. You know what they are paid now?
About $100 a square. You want to know why? Because legal and illegal labor reduced the costs that contractors are will to pay.
Make e-verify the law, nationwide, no exceptions. Penalties for employers who violate it. Jail time for multiple violations.
Problem solved, 90%.

And as I've said, I have no problem with legal immigrants. It's the illegals I reject entirely.
 
Back
Top Bottom