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Should Debate Techniques Be Mandatory Learning in High School?

Should Debate Techniques Be Mandatory Learning in High School?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 27.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 73.0%

  • Total voters
    37
I think I might not be "battle weary" or wary of "mandatory". It was the intent of our local schools to foster critical thinking, and I was in full support of that. Critical thinking enables one to form arguments and to examine many sides of an issue. So I don't feel formal debate training should be required, but do feel that classrooms should be open to student participation, discourse and debate.

I hope schools offer debate training to those who would like to further their skills...but on its own, debate skill is not a super skill...just take a look at Ted Cruz, who spent years perfecting debate skills. It is an area in which he excels formally. But it does little to develop other very important aspects of character and leadership.

As far as counting how many educators are capable...during my experience with children in the public schools, there were more than one hand of great teachers who inspired, two or more hands of adequate teachers who did their job, and a few who should have been considering retirement. Many that is due to the high taxes we pay here...maybe my upbeat evaluation.

Ted Cruz certainly came across as "plastic." I think I would have voted third-party if he had became the nominee. I will never vote for another Clinton (or another Bush, for that matter) - no matter what. So, I'm glad it went the way it did. Trump lacked debate skills, but at least he came across as a "real person" - not a plastic vampire.

I'm glad you have had more luck with the school system than I have. I can't tell you how many times I have sat across the desk from some total "maroon" (to quote Bugs Bunny) - the whole time, I'm thinking: "This person could not possibly have an IQ over 100... How did they get through college? Did they cheat?...etc."
 
Ted Cruz certainly came across as "plastic." I think I would have voted third-party if he had became the nominee. I will never vote for another Clinton (or another Bush, for that matter) - no matter what. So, I'm glad it went the way it did. Trump lacked debate skills, but at least he came across as a "real person" - not a plastic vampire.

I'm glad you have had more luck with the school system than I have. I can't tell you how many times I have sat across the desk from some total "maroon" (to quote Bugs Bunny) - the whole time, I'm thinking: "This person could not possibly have an IQ over 100... How did they get through college? Did they cheat?...etc."

Among non-Trump supporters, Cruz was the only candidate that came in second to Trump. Yes, very plastic, also harbors very ugly ideas.

I'm not for dynasties, but it was very obvious to me that Hilary was prepared to be president, and Trump was not. Voting for him because he was some sort of real person is beyond my comprehension. He is vulgar, misogynist, most likely racist, a narcissist bully who has always imagined himself much more capable than he has ever proven to have been...bankruptcies, frauds, and enough questions to keep Mueller busy for some time are his track record. So it is always surprising to me that people saw something else. And if we do not demand debate skills from our elected representatives, why should anyone else bother to perfect them?

But we are a strong nation...and will survive even him.
 
Agreed.

I'm new, and yet I have encountered the same "lack of skill" from multiple people. As if using "LMAO" and emojis were some sort of substitute for a rebuttal. It's always the same crap, too... They start to lose on substance, so they start picking an argument over the debate itself (parsing words, and such).

It's the bad thing about debating in a forum online... At least in-person debates have a moderator capable of either forcing an answer or declaring the debate to be over. Those unskilled debaters should ask themselves: "What would this sound like if I said it on stage - in a room full of people?" If the answer is "pretty dumb," then don't type it.

After all, just because you can't hear the crowd groaning... doesn't mean that they are not...

Plus, in an in-person debate... and I include informal debates (discussions) between two people... people generally will not say something out-of-line when they're staring the other person in the eye. Yet they will say the most absurd things online behind the anonymity of a screen name.
 
I think they should teach non-violent communication (NVC) and conflict resolution in schools. Debate doesn't really solve anything, it's just about crafting good arguments. Even if someone's wrong they can still seem right if they argue something well enough. We have enough righteous people in our society but not enough peace makers.
 
Such as math, and science, and history, and other such "garbage"?

No I was pointing out the inherent bias in many academics when it comes to political discourse. It's particularly bad on college campus where you've got estimations of 18 - 25% of social science teachers who are self proclaimed marxists.

But even if we're just talking about the high school level, the current state of public education is honestly pretty disgusting. I'd rather work towards reforming and fixing that system as a opposed to giving them more responsibility.
 
No I was pointing out the inherent bias in many academics when it comes to political discourse. It's particularly bad on college campus where you've got estimations of 18 - 25% of social science teachers who are self proclaimed marxists.

But even if we're just talking about the high school level, the current state of public education is honestly pretty disgusting. I'd rather work towards reforming and fixing that system as a opposed to giving them more responsibility.

What's the matter, are you saying liberals control the education system?
 
What's the matter, are you saying liberals control the education system?

I'd say there is a saturation of leftists in academia, yes.

What's concerning isn't your milquetoast neoliberals though. It's the frighteningly high amount of marxists, an ideology which was responsible for many more deaths than even Nazism in the 20th century, that pervades college campus. You know it's getting ridiculous when there is chaos and discord when even a center-right speaker such as Ben Shapiro catches a lot of flak for attempting to speak on a college campus.
 
I'd say there is a saturation of leftists in academia, yes.

What's concerning isn't your milquetoast neoliberals though. It's the frighteningly high amount of marxists, an ideology which was responsible for many more deaths than even Nazism in the 20th century, that pervades college campus. You know it's getting ridiculous when there is chaos and discord when even a center-right speaker such as Ben Shapiro catches a lot of flak for attempting to speak on a college campus.

Never heard of Ben Shapiro before this post and can't find any evidence that he has not been able to speak at any campus. Also, he likes to argue against planned parenthood even with evidence that most of their work has nothing to do with abortion, and also likes to rail against gender identity. Can't imagine who wants to listen to him, but he seems to have a presence on Tube if you care to listen. blah.
 
Never heard of Ben Shapiro before this post and can't find any evidence that he has not been able to speak at any campus. Also, he likes to argue against planned parenthood even with evidence that most of their work has nothing to do with abortion, and also likes to rail against gender identity. Can't imagine who wants to listen to him, but he seems to have a presence on Tube if you care to listen. blah.

He's actually a very popular pundit. Odd that you've never heard of him. I'm personally not a huge fan he's just an example of a moderate right candidate I could think of that was met with a lot of flak when speaking on campus. He wasn't denied access or anything but I had heard security fees were running in the hundreds of thousands.
 
He's actually a very popular pundit. Odd that you've never heard of him. I'm personally not a huge fan he's just an example of a moderate right candidate I could think of that was met with a lot of flak when speaking on campus. He wasn't denied access or anything but I had heard security fees were running in the hundreds of thousands.

Moderate right? He's quite conservative in his views.
 
Moderate right? He's quite conservative in his views.

Concerning American politics I'd say he's center right. If you get him started on his views on immigration related to Israel and the Israeli state he almost reaches the point of ethno-nationalism, though.

Most of his points, however, aren't anything you'd hear too far from most center right pundits. Like I said earlier though, I don't listen to him super often but the tidbits I have listened to don't sound to extreme.
 
No I was pointing out the inherent bias in many academics when it comes to political discourse. It's particularly bad on college campus where you've got estimations of 18 - 25% of social science teachers who are self proclaimed marxists.

Simply labeling "Marxist" as a synonym for "bad," when there is a massive, far-right backlash building against higher education, is silly. Some people seem to think that fascism is okay, so why does Marxism get a different standard?

But even if we're just talking about the high school level, the current state of public education is honestly pretty disgusting. I'd rather work towards reforming and fixing that system as a opposed to giving them more responsibility.

As much as I want to agree with that in theory, I've heard multiple ideas about how to improve education. Some ideas are sensible and some are absurd. Whatever they are, they must first and foremost support students, teachers, and communities.
 
Simply labeling "Marxist" as a synonym for "bad," when there is a massive, far-right backlash building against higher education, is silly. Some people seem to think that fascism is okay, so why does Marxism get a different standard?

Fascist ideology is not currently infesting academic thought.

Higher education deserves the backlash. Should one murderous ideology be replaced with another? Definitely not. But you should understand that hardcore progressivism and even some aspects of social justice are translated directly from marxist thought and doctrine.
 
LISTENING SKILLS should be taught.
No one actually knows how to LISTEN to anyone anymore.
Being silent while they are talking is not listening.

On all forums, passing a READING INTERPRETATION exam should be mandatory before posting.
 
Koke:

No I was pointing out the inherent bias in many academics when it comes to political discourse. It's particularly bad on college campus where you've got estimations of 18 - 25% of social science teachers who are self proclaimed marxists.

About 37% of Americans say they prefer socialism over capitalism. So it follows that socialists should be present in the educational system and that some percentage of those would be Marxists. As long as the Marxists are objective in their teaching in the Social Sciences and do not overly promote their own political creed intentionally then what's wrong with their presence in academia? Also, despite what you or I might think of Marxists, their ability to rigorously and thoroughly critique capitalism's shortfalls is second to none. So they provide a good countervailing voice to the established political and economic ethos in the USA and that's good for debate and political health in a democracy.

https://www.culturefaith.com/acfi-s...-about-the-ideology-gap-separating-americans/

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Koke:



About 37% of Americans say they prefer socialism over capitalism. So it follows that socialists should be present in the educational system and that some percentage of those would be Marxists. As long as the Marxists are objective in their teaching in the Social Sciences and do not overly promote their own political creed intentionally then what's wrong with their presence in academia? Also, despite what you or I might think of Marxists, their ability to rigorously and thoroughly critique capitalism's shortfalls is second to none. So they provide a good countervailing voice to the established political and economic ethos in the USA and that's good for debate and political health in a democracy.

https://www.culturefaith.com/acfi-s...-about-the-ideology-gap-separating-americans/

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Good point. Marxist do give a good critique of capitalism pretty well.
Fredrick Engels could not be reached for comment.
Engels...You know, that capitalist bastid that paid for his housing, food, and upkeep the whole time Marx was cussing the capitalists and did not have to work one day.
Not too many Marxist promoters will mention this much.
 
Given that so many people lack the necessary skills to debate any topic (many of them being members of websites like this one), should "Debate Class" be mandatory in school?

Keep in mind that "debate" isn't convincing others of your side, nor is it presenting the correct view, nor is it even reasoned discussion, which I sense is what you were going for here. "Debate" is merely the skill of winning an argument, regardless the topic and regardless what how you really feel about it. Preferably in a dignified manner.
 
Most adults don't understand the American government, socioeconomic history, or how the world works and hinge their votes on nonsense ideology and political team allegiance. But sure, let's train high school kids how to toss ignorance back and forth so that we can legitimize that ignorance and set them up to toss their ignorance into ballot boxes.

Debate is not the problem at all.
 
Keep in mind that "debate" isn't convincing others of your side, nor is it presenting the correct view, nor is it even reasoned discussion, which I sense is what you were going for here. "Debate" is merely the skill of winning an argument, regardless the topic and regardless what how you really feel about it. Preferably in a dignified manner.

Agreed...debate has little to do with truth...I've seen some people debate a topic they have no interest/belief in, just for the sake of debate...
 
Agreed...debate has little to do with truth...I've seen some people debate a topic they have no interest/belief in, just for the sake of debate...

Oh, I absolutely believe some people simply want to just argue. I could name a couple from here right off the top of my head.
 
Oh, I absolutely believe some people simply want to just argue. I could name a couple from here right off the top of my head.

lol...me too...
 
Oh, I absolutely believe some people simply want to just argue. I could name a couple from here right off the top of my head.

Isn't the whole point of the forum is to debate?
 
Keep in mind that "debate" isn't convincing others of your side, nor is it presenting the correct view, nor is it even reasoned discussion, which I sense is what you were going for here. "Debate" is merely the skill of winning an argument, regardless the topic and regardless what how you really feel about it. Preferably in a dignified manner.

One of the better parts of formal training is the "devils advocate" phase where one is forced to argue the points they disagree with about a given issue.
 
Chomsky:

At the previous school where I taught high school I was allowed to exploit a loop-hole in the curriculum requirements of our Ministry of Education!s guidelines to resurrect three old part-year courses into one new full-year course offered as an option at the grade 11 level. The course was a combination of Quebec Civil Law, Quebec Business Law and Canadian Common Law. To this was added Constitutional Law and Civics. In this course skills like argument, public speaking, debating skills, questioning and non-coercive interrogation techniques, mock-trials and moot-courts were included. It was a great course which I was able to teach for 17 years on and off over the last thirty years of teaching but finally the government closed the loop-holes and shut down the administrive space in which the course could exist. That was heart-breaking and really angered the students who loved the course and flocked to it. There is a strong demand for such courses from my perspective but the state seems pre-occupied with STEM, computer and job-training courses and is suspicious/wary of courses which awaken effective critical thinking in students about the society in which they live.

<edited for brevity>

Truly well-educated students are, in the minds of some in power, viewed as loose-cannons and there seems to be a desire to control them with selective ignorance and education-based debt to prevent them from effectively challenging the political status quo. Compliant engineers, socially myopic computer programmers, inquisitive scientists lost in their disciplines, business-savvy graduates are all preferred to well prepared and capable political idealists armed with the skills needed to challenge and change their societies through peaceful argument, civil debate, public speaking and effective legal challenge. We want followers and not leaders it seems.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
That's a beautiful story Roddy, and an even greater idea for a class. Well, it was a great story, until the end. What better to combine, than civics & debate?

And my comment to your the class being dropped, which I'm sorry to hear, is that this is the very reason why we've private schooled every generation in my family since coming here from Europe! My family was, well, fairly poor when they first emigrated to America. It was one of those "escape war-torn Europe" stories. But the large American city to which they migrated had terrible public schools. Also, my family was staunchly Catholic.

So the kids were all sent to private Catholic schools, and my grandfather, and later my father, would assist around the parish & school in return for tuition discounts. In fact, many parents did whatever they could around the parish or school, in order to keep their kids in a private school they could ill afford. It worked-out well, because our school was among the cleanest, nicely painted, and well maintained in the city. What was lacking in finance, was more than made up for in human labor and personal attention. And yes, the grammar school was indeed run by habited nuns, just like the old Blues Brothers movie! The vast majority of the kids that went to these grammar schools, ended-up going to one of the Catholic high-school prep-schools. All the Catholic high schools in the system were college-prep, and only offered college-prep programs (and classes). They provided a highly cohesive experience in preparing & transitioning the students to the universities.

I moved out of our old inner-city ethnic neighborhood as an adult, and eventually ended-up in a pretty nice suburb. The public schools are actually very good here - amongst the best in the nation, quite honestly. But I still sent my kids to Catholic grammar & Catholic prep schools. As good as the public schools are, the Catholic schools can operate completely autonomously. And that's a big deal. They stress the "three R's": Reading, wRiting, and 'Rithmetic. Nearly every class meeting, will require a writing assignment. They stress critical thinking and historical perspective, within a broad liberal curriculum with an abundance of history. They require great classes not required in the public schools. And yes, debate team is still a matter of prestige. The prep-schools are selective, requiring scoring well on standardized entrance exams. And the kids are told they've got to work their butt's off, otherwise they should give-up their seat to one of the less fortunate kids that wants to work, but couldn't get in. And perhaps best of all, the entire family-student-school triad is evaluated as a single functional unit. Parent-teachers conference attendance is mandatory. Weekly parental grade & activity reports online, require regular parental sign-offs.

Anyway, over the years I've become even more resolved in the value of private schools, and your post re-enforces that opinion.
 
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No. But, I would LOVE to do so!
If you ever have the opportunity, jump on it! You won't regret it. And you'll really appreciate it, if you have a decent understanding of early American history. The history will come even more alive!
 
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