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Trump's "****hole" comment it offensive because...

Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...


  • Total voters
    95
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

Tell that to the 11+ million who chose to skip the vetting process.

We are not talking about illegal immigration, we are talking about legal immigration, which you obviously oppose. Nativists existed since the beginnings of this nation. They have been proven through history to have been nothing but shortsighted xenophobes.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

We are not talking about illegal immigration, we are talking about legal immigration, which you obviously oppose. Nativists existed since the beginnings of this nation. They have been proven through history to have been nothing but shortsighted xenophobes.

Still begs to question why we need uneducated, unqualified people from ****hole countries.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

Still begs to question why we need uneducated, unqualified people from ****hole countries.

Do you really believe it was the well-educated/qualified who were coming to American shores throughout the centuries? Many people have come here starting from the bottom.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

Still begs to question why we need uneducated, unqualified people from ****hole countries.

Because we choose to pay other (indigenous aka citizens) folks not to work (or to work no more than 20 hours/week) which is precisely why they do not (or work very little).
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

Do you really believe it was the well-educated/qualified who were coming to American shores throughout the centuries? Many people have come here starting from the bottom.

That is true yet there was no welfare system offering an alternative to supporting themselves and their dependents - a rather crucial difference.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

Do you really believe it was the well-educated/qualified who were coming to American shores throughout the centuries? Many people have come here starting from the bottom.

Its not benefitting any of us.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

What I Learned in the Peace Corps in Africa: Trump Is Right
By Karin McQuillan

"Three weeks after college, I flew to Senegal, West Africa, to run a community center in a rural town. Life was placid, with no danger, except to your health. That danger was considerable, because it was, in the words of the Peace Corps doctor, "a fecalized environment."

In plain English: s--- is everywhere. People defecate on the open ground, and the feces is blown with the dust – onto you, your clothes, your food, the water. He warned us the first day of training: do not even touch water. Human feces carries parasites that bore through your skin and cause organ failure.

Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined that a few decades later, liberals would be pushing the lie that Western civilization is no better than a third-world country. Or would teach two generations of our kids that loving your own culture and wanting to preserve it are racism.

Last time I was in Paris, I saw a beautiful African woman in a grand boubou have her child defecate on the sidewalk next to Notre Dame Cathedral. The French police officer, ten steps from her, turned his head not to see.

I have seen. I am not turning my head and pretending unpleasant things are not true.

Senegal was not a hellhole. Very poor people can lead happy, meaningful lives in their own cultures' terms. But they are not our terms. The excrement is the least of it. Our basic ideas of human relations, right and wrong, are incompatible.

As a twenty-one-year-old starting out in the Peace Corps, I loved Senegal. In fact, I was euphoric. I quickly made friends and had an adopted family. I relished the feeling of the brotherhood of man. People were open, willing to share their lives and, after they knew you, their innermost thoughts.

The longer I lived there, the more I understood: it became blindingly obvious that the Senegalese are not the same as us. The truths we hold to be self-evident are not evident to the Senegalese. How could they be? Their reality is totally different. You can't understand anything in Senegal using American terms.

Take something as basic as family. Family was a few hundred people, extending out to second and third cousins. All the men in one generation were called "father." Senegalese are Muslim, with up to four wives. Girls had their clitorises cut off at puberty. (I witnessed this, at what I thought was going to be a nice coming-of-age ceremony, like a bat mitzvah or confirmation.) Sex, I was told, did not include kissing. Love and friendship in marriage were Western ideas. Fidelity was not a thing. Married women would have sex for a few cents to have cash for the market.

What I did witness every day was that women were worked half to death. Wives raised the food and fed their own children, did the heavy labor of walking miles to gather wood for the fire, drew water from the well or public faucet, pounded grain with heavy hand-held pestles, lived in their own huts, and had conjugal visits from their husbands on a rotating basis with their co-wives. Their husbands lazed in the shade of the trees.

Yet family was crucial to people there in a way Americans cannot comprehend.

The Ten Commandments were not disobeyed – they were unknown. The value system was the exact opposite. You were supposed to steal everything you can to give to your own relatives. There are some Westernized Africans who try to rebel against the system. They fail.

We hear a lot about the kleptocratic elites of Africa. The kleptocracy extends through the whole society. My town had a medical clinic donated by international agencies. The medicine was stolen by the medical workers and sold to the local store. If you were sick and didn't have money, drop dead. That was normal.
 
So here in the States, when we discovered that my 98-year-old father's Muslim health aide from Nigeria had stolen his clothes and wasn't bathing him, I wasn't surprised. It was familiar.

In Senegal, corruption ruled, from top to bottom. Go to the post office, and the clerk would name an outrageous price for a stamp. After paying the bribe, you still didn't know it if it would be mailed or thrown out. That was normal.

One of my most vivid memories was from the clinic. One day, as the wait grew hotter in the 110-degree heat, an old woman two feet from the medical aides – who were chatting in the shade of a mango tree instead of working – collapsed to the ground. They turned their heads so as not to see her and kept talking. She lay there in the dirt. Callousness to the sick was normal.

Americans think it is a universal human instinct to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It's not. It seems natural to us because we live in a Bible-based Judeo-Christian culture.

We think the Protestant work ethic is universal. It's not. My town was full of young men doing nothing. They were waiting for a government job. There was no private enterprise. Private business was not illegal, just impossible, given the nightmare of a third-world bureaucratic kleptocracy. It is also incompatible with Senegalese insistence on taking care of relatives.

All the little stores in Senegal were owned by Mauritanians. If a Senegalese wanted to run a little store, he'd go to another country. The reason? Your friends and relatives would ask you for stuff for free, and you would have to say yes. End of your business. You are not allowed to be a selfish individual and say no to relatives. The result: Everyone has nothing.

The more I worked there and visited government officials doing absolutely nothing, the more I realized that no one in Senegal had the idea that a job means work. A job is something given to you by a relative. It provides the place where you steal everything to give back to your family.

I couldn't wait to get home. So why would I want to bring Africa here? Non-Westerners do not magically become American by arriving on our shores with a visa.

For the rest of my life, I enjoyed the greatest gift of the Peace Corps: I love and treasure America more than ever. I take seriously my responsibility to defend our culture and our country and pass on the American heritage to the next generation.

African problems are made worse by our aid efforts. Senegal is full of smart, capable people. They will eventually solve their own country's problems. They will do it on their terms, not ours. The solution is not to bring Africans here.

We are lectured by Democrats that we must privilege third-world immigration by the hundred million with chain migration. They tell us we must end America as a white, Western, Judeo-Christian, capitalist nation – to prove we are not racist. I don't need to prove a thing. Leftists want open borders because they resent whites, resent Western achievements, and hate America. They want to destroy America as we know it.

As President Trump asked, why would we do that?

We have the right to choose what kind of country to live in. I was happy to donate a year of my life as a young woman to help the poor Senegalese. I am not willing to donate my country."

What I Learned in the Peace Corps in Africa: Trump Is Right
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

That is true yet there was no welfare system offering an alternative to supporting themselves and their dependents - a rather crucial difference.

You're right, many immigrants lived in our cities in squalor, sometimes with several families living in a single room apartment. Is that the situation we wish to go back to?

1st generation immigrant parents in the 19th and early 20th centuries typically lived their entire lives poor. However, 2nd and 3rd generations almost always do better, whether it was then or today.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

Its not benefitting any of us.

You did not answer the question.

But if you think that then you do not believe in the American Dream.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

You're right, many immigrants lived in our cities in squalor, sometimes with several families living in a single room apartment. Is that the situation we wish to go back to?

1st generation immigrant parents in the 19th and early 20th centuries typically lived their entire lives poor. However, 2nd and 3rd generations almost always do better, whether it was then or today.

This is true but doing better means that the low wage jobs of their parents go unfilled unless you let in the next wave of immigrants in to fill them. Meanwhile, we pay 15% of the population "safety net" subsidies to avoid requiring them to work to support themselves and their dependents.
 
So here in the States, when we discovered that my 98-year-old father's Muslim health aide from Nigeria had stolen his clothes and wasn't bathing him, I wasn't surprised. It was familiar.

In Senegal, corruption ruled, from top to bottom. Go to the post office, and the clerk would name an outrageous price for a stamp. After paying the bribe, you still didn't know it if it would be mailed or thrown out. That was normal.

One of my most vivid memories was from the clinic. One day, as the wait grew hotter in the 110-degree heat, an old woman two feet from the medical aides – who were chatting in the shade of a mango tree instead of working – collapsed to the ground. They turned their heads so as not to see her and kept talking. She lay there in the dirt. Callousness to the sick was normal.

Americans think it is a universal human instinct to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It's not. It seems natural to us because we live in a Bible-based Judeo-Christian culture.

We think the Protestant work ethic is universal. It's not. My town was full of young men doing nothing. They were waiting for a government job. There was no private enterprise. Private business was not illegal, just impossible, given the nightmare of a third-world bureaucratic kleptocracy. It is also incompatible with Senegalese insistence on taking care of relatives.

All the little stores in Senegal were owned by Mauritanians. If a Senegalese wanted to run a little store, he'd go to another country. The reason? Your friends and relatives would ask you for stuff for free, and you would have to say yes. End of your business. You are not allowed to be a selfish individual and say no to relatives. The result: Everyone has nothing.

The more I worked there and visited government officials doing absolutely nothing, the more I realized that no one in Senegal had the idea that a job means work. A job is something given to you by a relative. It provides the place where you steal everything to give back to your family.

I couldn't wait to get home. So why would I want to bring Africa here? Non-Westerners do not magically become American by arriving on our shores with a visa.

For the rest of my life, I enjoyed the greatest gift of the Peace Corps: I love and treasure America more than ever. I take seriously my responsibility to defend our culture and our country and pass on the American heritage to the next generation.

African problems are made worse by our aid efforts. Senegal is full of smart, capable people. They will eventually solve their own country's problems. They will do it on their terms, not ours. The solution is not to bring Africans here.

We are lectured by Democrats that we must privilege third-world immigration by the hundred million with chain migration. They tell us we must end America as a white, Western, Judeo-Christian, capitalist nation – to prove we are not racist. I don't need to prove a thing. Leftists want open borders because they resent whites, resent Western achievements, and hate America. They want to destroy America as we know it.

As President Trump asked, why would we do that?

We have the right to choose what kind of country to live in. I was happy to donate a year of my life as a young woman to help the poor Senegalese. I am not willing to donate my country."

What I Learned in the Peace Corps in Africa: Trump Is Right

Who can argue with such stunning logic? One-two experiences and we write off a continent and a religion. At least the last two posts had some personal data to base their comments on. Trump, as usual, is information-deprived and prejudice-enriched.

Suffice to say, some of the same things were said about southern Italians, Jews, and the Irish in the 20th century. Nice of you to update our bigotry. Hold on to your idealism.
 
Who can argue with such stunning logic? One-two experiences and we write off a continent and a religion. At least the last two posts had some personal data to base their comments on. Trump, as usual, is information-deprived and prejudice-enriched.

Suffice to say, some of the same things were said about southern Italians, Jews, and the Irish in the 20th century. Nice of you to update our bigotry. Hold on to your idealism.

Add them up buttercup, and you get a picture of a country unfit to live in. Sometimes ugly is the truth, no matter how you try to rationalize it away. Parts of Africa are just ugly places to live, much less visit. And Ireland during the potato famine was indeed a ****hole. That's why there are more Irish in the USA than back in Ireland.
 
It's offensive because there is no shame in being poor.

Trying to get a wealthy person to agree is similar to trying to put a camel through the eye of a needle.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

You did not answer the question.

But if you think that then you do not believe in the American Dream.

That dream is spread thin. It's hard to achieve for actual citizens much less the people I described.

Not only that but where I live there's just too many damn people period. We've gone over-capacity.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

This is true but doing better means that the low wage jobs of their parents go unfilled unless you let in the next wave of immigrants in to fill them.


Meanwhile, we pay 15% of the population "safety net" subsidies to avoid requiring them to work to support themselves and their dependents.

Does that percent include children, the disabled, and the elderly?

While there are some negative effects of immigration (depressing wages in certain industries, for instance) the positives far outweigh the negatives.


Immigration brings entrepreneurs who start new businesses that hire American workers.
Immigration brings young workers who help offset the large-scale retirement of baby boomers.
Immigration brings diverse skill sets that keep our workforce flexible, help companies grow, and increase the productivity of American workers.
Immigrants are far more likely to work in innovative, job-creating fields such as science, technology, engineering, and math that create life-improving products and drive economic growth.

An Open Letter from 1,470 Economists on Immigration - New American Economy


Immigrants have always been one of the biggest targets for what goes wrong in society, but when we look back on it in hindsight we realize how wrong that notion was.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

That dream is spread thin. It's hard to achieve for actual citizens much less the people I described.

Not only that but where I live there's just too many damn people period. We've gone over-capacity.

We are ranked #179 in the world when it comes to population density. We are nowhere close to 'over-capacity.'
 
Ireland during the potato famine was indeed a ****hole. That's why there are more Irish in the USA than back in Ireland.

So are you saying we should not have let the Irish into this country? Are you saying the Irish are a detriment to American society?
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

We are ranked #179 in the world when it comes to population density. We are nowhere close to 'over-capacity.'

I'm fairly sure that the paradise over the seas for prospective illegals are those lands first colonized by the British & there is little wonder why.
Let them intrude into the countries of Australia or Canadia which have the approximately same land mass of the USA with 1/10th the population
much more under capacity than we!


I'd include New Zealand but they restrict. Why does the USA have to be the patsy compared to other desirable destinations we have 10X
the population the USA have done it's share of accommodation now it's time for others to take up the load.
 
Bottom line: we can debate the merits of poorer societies til the cows come home. The main point here is that, if the reports are accurate, Trump was being his often dickish self. No different than Mexican rapists, Fiorina’s looks, et al. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a good president, just that he is an apparently irredeemable jerk. He could redeem himself a bit with an apology here or there, but won’t. There would be an earthquake in Trump Tower if he apologized for his role in the Central Park Five.

Two words explain all you need to know about him: Trump University.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

I'm fairly sure that the paradise over the seas for prospective illegals are those lands first colonized by the British & there is little wonder why.
Let them intrude into the countries of Australia or Canadia which have the approximately same land mass of the USA with 1/10th the population
much more under capacity than we!

Nothing you've said disputed the point I was making to WCH: We are nowhere close to over-capacity.

With that said, just because I am critical of some American views on immigration does not mean I am not critical of other countries. Some of Australia's policies are certainly well-deserving of criticism.

Not really sure why you bring up Canada. 1/5 of Canada's population is foreign born. Canada has one of the highest ratios of new immigrants in the world. It is not Canada's fault more people choose the United States (though I am sure that is beginning to shift).


Why does the USA have to be the patsy compared to other desirable destinations we have 10X
the population the USA have done it's share of accommodation now it's time for others to take up the load.

Well, unlike you I do not see bringing in immigrants as a 'burden.' I see it as a great benefit. While the xenophobes have always existed they have been proven wrong throughout US history.
 
Re: Trump's "sh**hole" comment it offensive because...

Nothing you've said disputed the point I was making to WCH: We are nowhere close to over-capacity.

With that said, just because I am critical of some American views on immigration does not mean I am not critical of other countries. Some of Australia's policies are certainly well-deserving of criticism.

Not really sure why you bring up Canada. 1/5 of Canada's population is foreign born. Canada has one of the highest ratios of new immigrants in the world. It is not Canada's fault more people choose the United States (though I am sure that is beginning to shift).




Well, unlike you I do not see bringing in immigrants as a 'burden.' I see it as a great benefit. While the xenophobes have always existed they have been proven wrong throughout US history.

If you really feel that way you're swimming upstream.
Apparently you'd love to advance the concept of the ideal nation egalitarian, diverse & liberated!
Unalterable human nature is the eternal enemy of utopian love affair with diversity.
Refusing to accept what human experience teaches is the mark of a liberal utopian ideologue.

California is proving the author of this quote a prophet:
"Pity the nation divided into fragments, each fragment deeming itself a nation' gibran 1934
 
So are you saying we should not have let the Irish into this country? Are you saying the Irish are a detriment to American society?

There actually was a lot of opposition to the Irish immigrants from working class Americans who worried about cheap Irish labor. But that was a time in our history when most work was unskilled and everything was done manually. So the country needed lots and lots of unskilled workers to build railroads, canals, and work in factories and slaughter houses. Henry Ford figured out how to take advantage of this unskilled labor force by instituting the assembly line; where each unskilled worker only did one little job so much training wasn't necessary nor need they be skilled at anything. Those days are gone. We have lots and lots of homegrown unskilled labor; what we need are skilled technicians. There are millions of job openings right now for skilled workers in manufacturing, which is very automated, diesel mechanics, and lots of other trades. It took generations for the Irish to become middle class citizens and an asset to their communities. Early on they lived in Irish neighborhoods and because we had almost no social services or welfare, they were self-sustaining from the start. Today's immigrants move immediately to social services and the welfare state. In that regard they then become a drain on the taxpayer and overburden our schools. And many of them have no concept of American ideals or what it means to be a citizen here. Unfortunately, we have enough of that type of person homegrown as well; we don't need any more.
 
Bottom line: we can debate the merits of poorer societies til the cows come home. The main point here is that, if the reports are accurate, Trump was being his often dickish self. No different than Mexican rapists, Fiorina’s looks, et al. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a good president, just that he is an apparently irredeemable jerk. He could redeem himself a bit with an apology here or there, but won’t. There would be an earthquake in Trump Tower if he apologized for his role in the Central Park Five.

Two words explain all you need to know about him: Trump University.

Because we all know Trump University is very useful and totally isn't a fraud.
 
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