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Should Student Loans be Dischargeable in Bankruptcy?

Should Student Loans be Dischargeable in Bankruptcy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 62.5%

  • No

    Votes: 15 37.5%
  • Total voters
    40
ttwtt78640 said:
The solution is simple - don't borrow money that you can't pay back.
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Oh man! You mean it's that simple?!

false-internet-hoaxes-10.jpg


If I make a loan to someone that I know can't pay it back, yet I still demand payment until they do, is there any really substantial difference between me and an extortioner?

Or another analogy that I like. Let's say that I know someone with a drug addiction. Instead of helping them get free from their addiction, I instead provide them drugs and make money off of them. How is that any different from loaning money to someone that you know has no means of paying it back?
 
phattonez said:
So because they didn't they're going to be our slaves until they pay us back? Do you find this to be a defensible position?
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Do you find it to be the fault of taxpayers in general? Should every kid that thought a getting a degree in underwater basket weaving would be worth borrowing $30K just be allowed to chase that dream?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Do you find it to be the fault of taxpayers in general? Should every kid that thought a getting a degree in underwater basket weaving would be worth borrowing $30K just be allowed to chase that dream?
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They shouldn't be given that loan in the first place. But say someone was young and stupid, should they he for that stupid decision for the rest of his life?
 
phattonez said:
Oh man! You mean it's that simple?!

false-internet-hoaxes-10.jpg


If I make a loan to someone that I know can't pay it back, yet I still demand payment until they do, is there any really substantial difference between me and an extortioner?

Or another analogy that I like. Let's say that I know someone with a drug addiction. Instead of helping them get free from their addiction, I instead provide them drugs and make money off of them. How is that any different from loaning money to someone that you know has no means of paying it back?
Click to expand...

Can you prove that any given applicant for a student loan will (or will not) repay that loan on time? If so, then you should be making tons of money by being the genius that can solve the student loan default problem.
 
phattonez said:
So because they didn't they're going to be our slaves until they pay us back? Do you find this to be a defensible position?
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They signed their name on the dotted line, they legally agreed to pay back the loan. Nowhere, I'm sure, does it say "unless you don't get the job you want". These people are adults. They need to be responsible for the consequences of their decisions.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Can you prove that any given applicant for a student loan will (or will not) repay that loan on time?
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No. I cannot prove that for mortgages either, but at least with mortgages you still have the property as collateral. With student loans, there is no collateral. Hypothetically speaking, I don't think that student loans exist without the backing of the government. What do you think happens to college tuition prices in that situation?
 
Cephus said:
They signed their name on the dotted line, they legally agreed to pay back the loan. Nowhere, I'm sure, does it say "unless you don't get the job you want". These people are adults. They need to be responsible for the consequences of their decisions.
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So indentured servitude should be legal?
 
Cephus said:
They still voluntarily made a legal commitment. They took someone else's money and promised to pay it back. Welcome to reality.
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So you're against bankruptcy law?
 
phattonez said:
So you're against bankruptcy law?
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Actually, yes. I don't think anyone should be able to avoid paying their legal debts that were entered into knowingly.
 
phattonez said:
Set aside your opinions on whether college should be free, whether the government should provide any assistance at all, or your views on college at all. Currently, student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. You can get rid of credit card debt and other types of debt, but you are forever stuck with student loans until you pay them off. Given that more and more are going into default on their loans and that the debt itself is massive, ought we allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy?
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No, student loans should not be dischargable in bankruptcy, but neither should the government be handing out loans at a ridiculously high interest rate. As long as those loans are not dischargable, the risk is much lower and thus the interest rate should be lower.
ttwtt78640 said:
The solution is simple - don't borrow money that you can't pay back.
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It's not that simple. There are many jobs which require a college degree and I don't mean as criteria for the job, but rather to be able to perform the job. And since college is not affordable, then it is not simple to say "don't borrow money you can't pay back", when one of the biggest reasons people can't pay them back is because of the ridiculously high interest rate attached to the money.

Student loan rates should reside fixed somewhere around the rate of inflation or slightly above. The government should not be making money off its citizens becoming educated.
Cephus said:
Actually, yes. I don't think anyone should be able to avoid paying their legal debts that were entered into knowingly.
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You do realize the various limitations in your position, correct?
 
phattonez said:
No. I don't have $10K to loan you, nor do I know you.

If I had that, would I make that loan to one of my children? Absolutely.
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At least you seem to agree that getting paid back is good and that making "gifts" to strangers is not good.
 
phattonez said:
No. I cannot prove that for mortgages either, but at least with mortgages you still have the property as collateral. With student loans, there is no collateral. Hypothetically speaking, I don't think that student loans exist without the backing of the government. What do you think happens to college tuition prices in that situation?
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Tuition prices drop by a lot due to much lower demand.
 
Cephus said:
They knew what they were getting into. Why do you oppose personal responsibility?
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I don't think that people ought to be slaves, nor even sell themselves into slavery. Such a choice is never freely made, and decisions made under coercion ought not be respected. You generally get yourself into that situation because you're poor and need the help. I fail to see why I should have more sympathy for the lender than the borrower in the event of default. The lender by definition has an excess of money, while the borrower is essentially made a slave. If my options are a hit to the lender of the enslavement of the borrower, I choose a hit to the lender. Lenders know the risks when they make loans.
 
Cephus said:
Actually, yes. I don't think anyone should be able to avoid paying their legal debts that were entered into knowingly.
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Let's bring back indentured servitude then. Let's legalize prostitution.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
At least you seem to agree that getting paid back is good and that making "gifts" to strangers is not good.
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I shouldn't be able to make you my slave just because I lent you some of my money.
 
gdgyva said:
college is a privilege

if you decide to go...do you work your way through....have parents help you....or go into debt

or maybe a combination of all three

student debt shouldnt be dis chargeable....why

it should be treated the same as IRS debt....which is also always owed

you dig yourself into a hole, you need to be able to dig yourself out

now...i would have zero issue with every student being counselled on the issues of debt before signing those papers also

this isnt a game....and if you sign for 30k, 50k, or 100k in someone elses money....you need to understand what it will take to pay it back
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Currently, I think it's extremely difficult to impossible for someone to work their way through college - the amount of work required to pay for the tuition, especially at min wage or a bit higher, would cut deeply into study time.

If we start talking more expensive colleges, it's nearly impossible, as the hours required for study and work to pay for tuition approach the number of total hours in a year, without subtracting sleeping (which is about a 3rd of the time available, ideally)

https://newrepublic.com/article/122814/how-many-hours-would-it-take-you-work-todays-college-tuition
 
Cephus said:
They still voluntarily made a legal commitment. They took someone else's money and promised to pay it back. Welcome to reality.
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You, or rather our government, now has a basically worthless debt - a student loan that is in (perpetual?) default. You can't collect a debt from someone with a McJob.
 
phattonez said:
No. I don't have $10K to loan you, nor do I know you.

If I had that, would I make that loan to one of my children? Absolutely.
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I paid my own way through college, I never took a red cent from anyone including my parents. Granted, it was before college was so expensive, which is entirely because the government is willing to foot the bill. But I am paying for my oldest daughter's college out of pocket. When my youngest daughter goes, I'll be doing the same. It's called hard work and earning it.

Why can't liberals do the same?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
You, or rather our government, now has a basically worthless debt - a student loan that is in (perpetual?) default. You can't collect a debt from someone with a McJob.
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Which is why the government shouldn't be funding education. The reason the cost is so high is because the government has a blank checkbook and is willing to write a check to anyone and not willing to go after them when they default.
 
Cephus said:
I paid my own way through college, I never took a red cent from anyone including my parents. Granted, it was before college was so expensive, which is entirely because the government is willing to foot the bill. But I am paying for my oldest daughter's college out of pocket. When my youngest daughter goes, I'll be doing the same. It's called hard work and earning it.

Why can't liberals do the same?
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Wait...what do liberals have to do with anything? Most of the people I know with crippling student debt right now are conservative. Most of the people my wife worked with who were filing for Chapter 7 were Trump supporters.

Why are you imposing partisanship on this topic, especially when this is a nonpartisan issue?
Cephus said:
The reason the cost is so high is because the government has a blank checkbook and is willing to write a check to anyone and not willing to go after them when they default.
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There are many reasons the cost of higher education is so high, many correctable.

But to say its because the government is not willing to go after "them when they default" doesn't make much sense, since student loans are not dischargable. Could you please explain what you mean?
 
The Mark said:
Currently, I think it's extremely difficult to impossible for someone to work their way through college - the amount of work required to pay for the tuition, especially at min wage or a bit higher, would cut deeply into study time.

If we start talking more expensive colleges, it's nearly impossible, as the hours required for study and work to pay for tuition approach the number of total hours in a year, without subtracting sleeping (which is about a 3rd of the time available, ideally)

https://newrepublic.com/article/122814/how-many-hours-would-it-take-you-work-todays-college-tuition
Click to expand...

I did it. I worked more than full time and took a full course load. I had no social life. I worked and studied and occasionally slept for years. It was worth it to me to get a worthwhile degree, plus I was making nowhere near minimum wage because I had been working since the day I turned 16 and had plenty of experience and advancement by the time I got to college.

Why are people so lazy today?
 
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