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Should Student Loans be Dischargeable in Bankruptcy?

Should Student Loans be Dischargeable in Bankruptcy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 62.5%

  • No

    Votes: 15 37.5%
  • Total voters
    40
phattonez said:
Most poorer kids who go to college are saddled with massive debt that they can ill-afford as a result of this current system. Let's not act as if they're getting some huge benefit.
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Poorer kids should not take loans to obtain worthless degrees. Remember always that if the government is involved in any investments in anything it is a signal that the investment is by definition no good.

Have you ever considered that the Harvard Endowment now sitting at 40 billion dollars is fabulously wealthy and has the capacity to easily loan all of its students all the money they need; this is true of most universities. They know that for most kids loaning them money for the product they sell is a terrible investment idea.

GM and Toyota had no problem lending its customers the money they needed to by their own cars; This is not true for universities and other crap car companies. No one selling a fraud to the unwary is going to loan their victims the means of buying the fraud that they are selling them.
 
phattonez said:
What do you call it when someone has a claim over your labor and has access to your pay before you do?
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Usually we call it government, the kind that takes our labor and that you want to somehow gift to you on some "moral principle." Its quite obvious, that whatever college you attended, they taught you nothing of value and now I'm having to give you totally free lessons in basic ethics, go figure.
 
phattonez said:
The top tier schools will be able to charge whatever they want, then. How are you going to cap their abuse of your system?
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No, they won't. If they do the interest rates their students will have to accept will continue to go up, to the point where nobody will be willing to accept that. Would you be willing to accept a 10% income tax above and beyond the standard income tax you already pay for the rest of your life just to go to Harvard?
 
MrWonka said:
No, they won't. If they do the interest rates their students will have to accept will continue to go up, to the point where nobody will be willing to accept that. Would you be willing to accept a 10% income tax above and beyond the standard income tax you already pay for the rest of your life just to go to Harvard?
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How are you deciding what level of tuition corresponds to what income tax percentage?
 
phattonez said:
How are you deciding what level of tuition corresponds to what income tax percentage?
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The goal would be to have the average student that graduates from that school pay off their tuition over the course of 40 years. The major of the student might have to be factored in a little bit, but I'd rather it didn't. It would require some estimation obviously.
 
I voted yes but that would only make most go BK and just reestablish credit as they mature.
 
phattonez said:
Set aside your opinions on whether college should be free, whether the government should provide any assistance at all, or your views on college at all. Currently, student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. You can get rid of credit card debt and other types of debt, but you are forever stuck with student loans until you pay them off. Given that more and more are going into default on their loans and that the debt itself is massive, ought we allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy?
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Not at all.

I'm for freeish higher education but I would want strings attached.....it would have to be a state school or equal cost, you may have to serve a few years in some sort of public service, you would actually have to finish etc etc etc.

Saying "hey, we'll back 10's of thousands of dollars in loans for you" and letting someone just take that money out and declare bankruptcy? No thank you.
 
iliveonramen said:
Not at all.

I'm for freeish higher education but I would want strings attached.....it would have to be a state school or equal cost, you may have to serve a few years in some sort of public service, you would actually have to finish etc etc etc.
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There is no "freeish!" The government has no money and has no capacity to earn money. What you want is other people to pay your freight.
 
MrWonka said:
No, they won't. If they do the interest rates their students will have to accept will continue to go up, to the point where nobody will be willing to accept that. Would you be willing to accept a 10% income tax above and beyond the standard income tax you already pay for the rest of your life just to go to Harvard?
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No I wouldn't, but then I'm more savvy than people who take loans out to go to Harvard.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Suck it up..................... and pay your debt. :roll:
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Unless you are a company, then you get a free pass and can just file bankruptcy.

HOw many times did trump "suck it up and pay his debt" when he filed for bankruptcy multiple times?
 
SirGareth said:
There is no "freeish!" The government has no money and has no capacity to earn money. What you want is other people to pay your freight.
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I got the GI Bill and never took a student loan. In fact I paid my way, used scholarships, or my GI Bill through a Masters degree. Nobody is paying **** for me so don't assume.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Unless you are a company, then you get a free pass and can just file bankruptcy.

HOw many times did trump "suck it up and pay his debt" when he filed for bankruptcy multiple times?
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do you know the rules for companies bankruptcies?

do you understand most loans for small businesses are personally guaranteed by the owners in one way or another?

https://www.bizjournals.com/portlan...02/real-estate-companies-bankruptcy-list.html

this is one article about real estate companies

https://www.wsj.com/articles/real-estate-developer-woodbridge-group-files-for-bankruptcy-1512397593

here is another

real estate development is risky....and yes, banks and investors lose out at times

not the same as personal bankruptcies though....the rules are very different
 
phattonez said:
Most poorer kids who go to college are saddled with massive debt that they can ill-afford as a result of this current system. Let's not act as if they're getting some huge benefit.
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I agree in part with what you're saying. Trade schools are the better way to go. I think a lot of kids go to college today because they're friends are going, so why not. They have no idea what they want to be. So they spend a fews years trying to figure that out while loading up on debt. Some change their majors which add more debt. Then some end up with degrees where they could make as much money working at McDonalds.

Better counciling, more parent involvement would help out a lot. But, we do have kids in the poorer section that deserve to be in a University, as they're scientists, biologists, doctors, etc.--and we don't want to eliminate them over student loans.

I came from a generation where once you graduated from high school, you went out and got a job. Very few went to college. Things are different today.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
Unless you are a company, then you get a free pass and can just file bankruptcy.

HOw many times did trump "suck it up and pay his debt" when he filed for bankruptcy multiple times?
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You do not appear to understand that business bankruptcies occur when people voluntarily put their own money at risk just as they do when they play the ponies.

Taxpayers were not having fun at the track when the government took their money to loan it to you at very low interest rates.
 
Oreo said:
I agree in part with what you're saying. Trade schools are the better way to go. I think a lot of kids go to college today because they're friends are going, so why not. They have no idea what they want to be. So they spend a fews years trying to figure that out while loading up on debt. Some change their majors which add more debt. Then some end up with degrees where they could make as much money working at McDonalds.

Better counciling, more parent involvement would help out a lot. But, we do have kids in the poorer section that deserve to be in a University, as they're scientists, biologists, doctors, etc.--and we don't want to eliminate them over student loans.

I came from a generation where once you graduated from high school, you went out and got a job. Very few went to college. Things are different today.
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Why shouldn't the colleges and universities loan these kids the money they need for tutition from their own funds, just like Toyota does for its car buyers?

Maybe, unlike Toyota, these universities and colleges have no faith either in their products or their customers, and would rather have taxpayers lose their shirts on these loans for their worthless products.
 
iliveonramen said:
I got the GI Bill and never took a student loan. In fact I paid my way, used scholarships, or my GI Bill through a Masters degree. Nobody is paying **** for me so don't assume.
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I was assuming nothing about you except the fact that in obtaining that masters degree you have not appeared to have learned that nothing of value is free.

Just Who pays for "free education?"

If you say "government" then I must conclude that you wasted your time and someone else's money on a worthless education. My five year old kid knew better.

PS I am a Vietnam War vet too.
 
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MrWonka said:
I don't think that's really true at all. Greater demand from students only increases the price of education if you can't expand the supply to match it. There's nothing preventing schools from expanding. Hiring more professors, building more dorms....
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If the government gave interest free loans for BMWs that could be repaid over 40 years (or not) would you assume that both the demand and price for BMWs would rise?
 
SirGareth said:
I was assuming nothing about you except the fact that in obtaining that masters degree you have not appeared to have learned that nothing of value is free.

Just Who pays for "free education?"

If you say "government" then I must conclude that you wasted your time and someone else's money on a worthless education. My five year old kid knew better.

PS I am a Vietnam War vet too.
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You can conclude whatever you'd like. Education is expensive and getting well beyond the cost anyone can cover themselves. States are not subsidizing the cost of higher education to nearly the levels they would in the past. Saying that the government shouldn't be a source of alleviating that pressure is just ignoring that older folks..such as your self...benefited from highly subsidized education costs and overall much lower costs especially compared to what someone can earn while going to school.

The world is more competitive. Everything above is a problem as voters and a whole generation of folks have decided that paying the lowest amount in taxes makes you a patriot and everyone after them has been baring the burden of that decision over time.

Abbreviated version: Waiting tables over the summer or working part time or even close to full time won't pay for school. It's a different world and costs are different.
 
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phattonez said:
Set aside your opinions on whether college should be free, whether the government should provide any assistance at all, or your views on college at all. Currently, student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. You can get rid of credit card debt and other types of debt, but you are forever stuck with student loans until you pay them off. Given that more and more are going into default on their loans and that the debt itself is massive, ought we allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy?
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If all kinds of other debt can be discharged in bankruptcy then so should student loans. I don't see why student loan debts should get special treatment and others don't.
 
jamesrage said:
If all kinds of other debt can be discharged in bankruptcy then so should student loans. I don't see why student loan debts should get special treatment and others don't.
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Because the people who loan the money for SLs also make the rules for BK.
 
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